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[HighOnHD]

I had a 15 CVO Road Glide limited, blue.  Put 44K miles on the bike in 2 years.  Lifter failed at 44K miles, the last day of its warranty.  Harley replaced the engine, but I never rode the bike again.  Traded it for a 17 CVO Street glide, not a fan of street glide, so I traded it on an 18 CVO Road Glide, then my 19 CVO road Glide.

But, what does the 23 CVO limited have that the 15 CVO Ultra doesn't have other than RDS?  23 is 10K MSRP more than the 15 was.

I can tell you what the 15 Has that the 23 doesn't have.  15 has XM, CB, Vents that close in fairing, 2 Key fobs.

Its getting harder to find the value.  Pay way more to get less.  The M8 is a great motor.  Much better than previous designs.

I'm on my 7th CVO.  The 09 was a very good value as was the 12, and 13.  15 Value was okay but resale not so good like the 3 previous CVO's.  After 15 they started removing stuff but kept raising price.  Im not seeing the value I once saw.

I hope that Harley will redesign the touring bikes and bring them up to date.  Harley is very capable of doing that.

The Pan America is a 100% up to date bike.  Fantastic motor, superb suspension, 5 ride modes that change everything from throttle response, suspension, power curve, traction management and more.  Bike is the Quickest Harley ever.  Bike is speed limited to 142 mph.  By far the best riding, best handling Harley I have ever owned.

I want some of this technology put into the touring bikes.  Better suspension is what I want most.  A bump that throws me out of my seat on my CVO road glide at 45 mph I can hit at any speed on my PA and it doesn't hardly move the bike at all.  Even at 100 its a non event on PA, but road glide I'm 5 inches out of seat at 45 mph.

Hi Dave,

I don't want to sound like a Fox Shox salesman, but maybe try them front and back. My a$$ has not left the seat from a bump since I did.

I am not saying Harley or any other company can not improve upon their product. What has not gone up in price? I am also not saying you do this, but if you buy a dozen eggs right now do you go around complaining how awful they taste, or do you complain about how much they cost? This of course, after eating a dozen of them! I suppose currently when you go ride one of your touring bikes you have a smile on your face, right?

I am also saying the younger generation(s) that are interested in buying a motorcycle could easily land on this site in search of info. There are very few cheerleaders on this site anymore. I say they will read how all of these CVO owners hate their bike, and move on to something else even though they're a MANY who love riding their CVO! The younger generation may be a lot of things, but I would not call them ignorant. I am suggesting that this may be possibly a cause of the reduced traffic on this site, thus the "smaller audience."

When I decided to buy my 2015 CVO I came onto this site and believe me I found plenty of this same bashing then. It did not just start in 2015. I had already spent over $50K on my previous NON-CVO street glide, and decided on the CVO. My decision and glad I did.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Hi Dave,

I don't want to sound like a Fox Shox salesman, but maybe try them front and back. My a$$ has not left the seat from a bump since I did.

I am not saying Harley or any other company can not improve upon their product. What has not gone up in price? I am also not saying you do this, but if you buy a dozen eggs right now do you go around complaining how awful they taste, or do you complain about how much they cost? This of course, after eating a dozen of them! I suppose currently when you go ride one of your touring bikes you have a smile on your face, right?

I am also saying the younger generation(s) that are interested in buying a motorcycle could easily land on this site in search of info. There are very few cheerleaders on this site anymore. I say they will read how all of these CVO owners hate their bike, and move on to something else even though they're a MANY who love riding their CVO! The younger generation may be a lot of things, but I would not call them ignorant. I am suggesting that this may be possibly a cause of the reduced traffic on this site, thus the "smaller audience."

When I decided to buy my 2015 CVO I came onto this site and believe me I found plenty of this same bashing then. It did not just start in 2015. I had already spent over $50K on my previous NON-CVO street glide, and decided on the CVO. My decision and glad I did.

I put Ohlin shocks front and rear on my 15 CVO RGU.  Yes better than stock, not 2K better.  Also not as good as a Stock BMW or Goldwing.  Also not close to my Pan America.  I had Ohlin on the back of my 18 CVO RG, so I could gain an inch of travel.  Still not what I would call a good modern suspension.

Try this to understand my point on price.  In 2014 the corvette (C7)) was completely redesigned shared almost no parts with the C6 version base price went up less then 1K.  In 2020 the corvette was completely redesigned, mid engine (C8) sharing no parts with the C7.  No features or standard equipment was removed, the product both times vastly improved.  C7 to C8 base price went up less the 4K.

14 to now the Harley CVO has gone from 36K to 52K.  That is 16K price increase.  Hasn't been redesigned since 2009.  Same suspension, same frame.  Yes, a new engine.  Some suspension improvement but nothing significant.  So huge price increase, minimal improvements.  No longer get a CB.  No longer get XM radio.  Removed the ability to close the vents in the lower fairing. 

Seems, that others can improve their product and increase their price less.  Harley just raises its price, more than other by a lot.  In 14 it was a base corvette was 19K more than a CVO Ultra.  Today a base corvette is 8K more than a CVO Limited.  Yes everything has gone up.  Some has gone up way more than the rest.

Yep, I love riding my CVO.  My CVO Road Glide is a long way from stock.  I have 61K fun filled miles on my 19.  I'm sure I'll put at least 10K on it this year.  I really love riding my Pan America.  The Pan America is a true value in the Harley line.  24K after I added the hard aluminum boxes on the sides and back.  It will out run any other Harley 0-60, 1/4 mile and top speed, its governed to 142mph.  It's suspension is better than any touring bike, even if you put 2K into the suspension on the touring bike.  It will run the curves faster than any touring bike.  It has five ride modes.  You can feel distinct changes in the suspension, the throttle response, the traction control and the power band.  Yes, it's comfortable.  Rode from here to Salida CO, 1400 miles in 2 days.   Then I rode 4 paved mountain passes, and 4 dirt/gravel mountain passes.  Then rode home in two days.

Harley can make a bike that performs and handles.  They can do it at a reasonable price.  BMW, Goldwing, Indian touring bikes have more power, handle better, have better suspension, and ride modes than Harley touring.  I want Harley to make a touring bike with power, and handling and suspension that can compete with the other touring bikes.

[HighOnHD]

I put Ohlin shocks front and rear on my 15 CVO RGU.  Yes better than stock, not 2K better.  Also not as good as a Stock BMW or Goldwing.  Also not close to my Pan America.  I had Ohlin on the back of my 18 CVO RG, so I could gain an inch of travel.  Still not what I would call a good modern suspension.

Try this to understand my point on price.  In 2014 the corvette (C7)) was completely redesigned shared almost no parts with the C6 version base price went up less then 1K.  In 2020 the corvette was completely redesigned, mid engine (C8) sharing no parts with the C7.  No features or standard equipment was removed, the product both times vastly improved.  C7 to C8 base price went up less the 4K.

14 to now the Harley CVO has gone from 36K to 52K.  That is 16K price increase.  Hasn't been redesigned since 2009.  Same suspension, same frame.  Yes, a new engine.  Some suspension improvement but nothing significant.  So huge price increase, minimal improvements.  No longer get a CB.  No longer get XM radio.  Removed the ability to close the vents in the lower fairing. 

Seems, that others can improve their product and increase their price less.  Harley just raises its price, more than other by a lot.  In 14 it was a base corvette was 19K more than a CVO Ultra.  Today a base corvette is 8K more than a CVO Limited.  Yes everything has gone up.  Some has gone up way more than the rest.

Yep, I love riding my CVO.  My CVO Road Glide is a long way from stock.  I have 61K fun filled miles on my 19.  I'm sure I'll put at least 10K on it this year.  I really love riding my Pan America.  The Pan America is a true value in the Harley line.  24K after I added the hard aluminum boxes on the sides and back.  It will out run any other Harley 0-60, 1/4 mile and top speed, its governed to 142mph.  It's suspension is better than any touring bike, even if you put 2K into the suspension on the touring bike.  It will run the curves faster than any touring bike.  It has five ride modes.  You can feel distinct changes in the suspension, the throttle response, the traction control and the power band.  Yes, it's comfortable.  Rode from here to Salida CO, 1400 miles in 2 days.   Then I rode 4 paved mountain passes, and 4 dirt/gravel mountain passes.  Then rode home in two days.

Harley can make a bike that performs and handles.  They can do it at a reasonable price.  BMW, Goldwing, Indian touring bikes have more power, handle better, have better suspension, and ride modes than Harley touring.  I want Harley to make a touring bike with power, and handling and suspension that can compete with the other touring bikes.

Hi Dave,

I understand the importance of suspension. I had Ohlins on previous bike and happen to like the Fox better in this application. I have also ran several Harley owners over the years who are on disability and always wondered how they could ride so many miles, yet be disabled. The bike can buck a little bit like you say.

If you remember though you and many others on this forum back in 2015 (and prior) raged on and on about Harley needing to come up with a new engine because the Twin Cam was... well had issues. Yet in your post above you claim "That is 16K price increase.  Hasn't been redesigned since 2009" Harley has not made any significant changes to account for the price increases, but in the next breath admit they designed a completely new engine and that it is a good engine!

Go figure. I know when I am beating my head against a wall, and you probably feel the same way. I am tapping out, besides I am still working for a living and need to get back to work. At least this is my last year of doing that!

[FLSTFI Dave]

Hi Dave,

I understand the importance of suspension. I had Ohlins on previous bike and happen to like the Fox better in this application. I have also ran several Harley owners over the years who are on disability and always wondered how they could ride so many miles, yet be disabled. The bike can buck a little bit like you say.

If you remember though you and many others on this forum back in 2015 (and prior) raged on and on about Harley needing to come up with a new engine because the Twin Cam was... well had issues. Yet in your post above you claim "That is 16K price increase.  Hasn't been redesigned since 2009" Harley has not made any significant changes to account for the price increases, but in the next breath admit they designed a completely new engine and that it is a good engine!

Go figure. I know when I am beating my head against a wall, and you probably feel the same way. I am tapping out, besides I am still working for a living and need to get back to work. At least this is my last year of doing that!

So, a complete 2 cylinder engine redesign, is 16K worth of improvement for Harley.  On a 14 year old frame and suspension.

Corvette in less redesigned the complete car, frame, body chassis, suspension, transmission and it only goes up 4K.  This is two complete redesigns in 8 years. 

Its a Great engine, but not a 16K upgrade. 

[kojak]

So, a complete 2 cylinder engine redesign, is 16K worth of improvement for Harley.  On a 14 year old frame and suspension.

Corvette in less redesigned the complete car, frame, body chassis, suspension, transmission and it only goes up 4K.  This is two complete redesigns in 8 years. 

Its a Great engine, but not a 16K upgrade.

I think the point you are missing is Harley hasnt been willing to take the risk of changing their flagship platform (touring bikes of all flavors) because of legions of riders who would go hogwild if they went away from the v-twin pushrod engine. So they evolve as much as they can while trying to maintain the tradition. just think about all the riders who complained about going from the evolution engine to twin cam etc. Their strategy is to make other bikes like the adventure bike you love to include all the features you find in metric bikes these days. What I find so interesting these days are these wild announcements from auto/bike manufacturers that in 20 years or so their entire lineups will be electric!

[HighOnHD]

I think the point you are missing is Harley hasnt been willing to take the risk of changing their flagship platform (touring bikes of all flavors) because of legions of riders who would go hogwild if they went away from the v-twin pushrod engine. So they evolve as much as they can while trying to maintain the tradition. just think about all the riders who complained about going from the evolution engine to twin cam etc. Their strategy is to make other bikes like the adventure bike you love to include all the features you find in metric bikes these days. What I find so interesting these days are these wild announcements from auto/bike manufacturers that in 20 years or so their entire lineups will be electric!

Thanks kojak for so eloquently describing what for at least I know you and I is obvious! That is something I have a problem with even in my profession where I often take for granted that everyone understands something that to me is obvious!

I will try to elaborate on your point some more. People spend money for all kinds of reasons. For example, when I parachute out of an airplane, and get to the ground and drive off in my vehicle what did I get for my money? Nothing material, right? I paid for an adrenaline rush, basically. I raced motorcycles in the dirt growing up... MX, Enduro, Desert etc. Dave mentioned that he recently drove his favorite Harley on a couple of gravel/dirt roads. Awesome! I am used to getting a rush for instance riding the Baja 1000 course in back to back years. Not racing it in this case, but just for fun and a rush.

Some people sound like spoiled babies to me sometime saying "I want. I want. I want." Well there is a saying about that. "Want in one hand. $hit in the other, and see which one fills up first!" Not everyone gets what they want. If Dave got his way the Harley that I LOVE to ride would not have the "little bit of Huck-a-buck in it that I LOVE."

[TN]

I have a non CVO 08 Roadglide.  I can dump a lot of money into it and still be ahead of the game before shelling out 50K on a new bike.  I'm not knocking anyone that wants one, just saying it's not for me.

I had a 08 FLTR, I kinda miss that bike. I sold it six years ago, seemed like the thing to do at the time. My 09 will leave my possession when my riding boots are cold.......

I could prolly dig up some funds to purchase a new one, but I lost my map. 

[OBB]

I had a 08 FLTR, I kinda miss that bike. I sold it six years ago, seemed like the thing to do at the time. My 09 will leave my possession when my riding boots are cold.......

I could prolly dig up some funds to purchase a new one, but I lost my map. 

You better have more than one because you know damn well it needs upgrades before you ride it.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

[FLSTFI Dave]

I think the point you are missing is Harley hasnt been willing to take the risk of changing their flagship platform (touring bikes of all flavors) because of legions of riders who would go hogwild if they went away from the v-twin pushrod engine. So they evolve as much as they can while trying to maintain the tradition. just think about all the riders who complained about going from the evolution engine to twin cam etc. Their strategy is to make other bikes like the adventure bike you love to include all the features you find in metric bikes these days. What I find so interesting these days are these wild announcements from auto/bike manufacturers that in 20 years or so their entire lineups will be electric!

The point you are missing and I am trying to make.  Harley has little to no R&D on the touring bikes.  Switched to the M8 engine.  Removed standard equipment like XM and CB and more. 16K price increase from 2013 to now. 

Corvette, redesigned the entire car twice in that time frame.  Went from front engine to rear.  Added all kinds of new technology, increase its performance, its luxury and handling. Base price went up 4K.   No standard equipment removed.

I get what the Harley CVO is.  If they do want to keep the same, thats great.  Then no reason for a 16K price increase.   Cost 0 R&D to keep producing the same bike.

You quit buying the CVO correct.  If I remember what I read on this or the other forum you no longer see the value in the CVO due to stuff being removed and price increases.

[kojak]

I got no argument with the fact Harley cvo bikes are crazy priced these days and they will sell every one of them. Youre right they wont get my money for one of them but I still buy harley touring bikes for the traditional setup.

[Steve_G]

I wonder what they’ll give me for a trade for new ‘23 model? 🤓