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[05Train]

I've been playing around with the idea of making my Tour Pak detachable, and I know I have to do something about the amplifier if I want to keep the stereo.  I don't want to lose saddlebag space, so in-fairing looks like it.

I've looked at the BT4180, and I've read good things about it.  What I haven't seen is anyone using it to drive the TP speakers.  Will that work, and will I maintain full control via the hand controls?

I'm looking at the BT7P1 speakers for the front, but I'm concerned about weight.  A lot of the roads I ride are really rough, and I don't want to risk messing up the inner fairing.  Are there better options, or am I worrying about nothing?

Lastly, I don't see anything from Biketronics for the rear speaker pods.  I don't want to lose the hand controls back there, so the replacement pods aren't an option.  Will the 6.5" speakers work back there?

[CowboyBagger]

I've got the BT4180 driving HAT 6.5 fronts with tweeters and HAT 6x9 saddlebag lid speakers.  When I checked on adding speaker pods to my tour pak, I believe the largest speakers that would fit the stock ultra pods are 5.25.  I'm still thinking about it.  It's hard to get a lot of volume from lids going down the road.

Cowboy

[05Train]

Are you happy with the sound from the fronts?  How was the install on the amp? 

[CowboyBagger]

The amp sits right on top of the Sony head unit that I also installed.  Even room for the crossovers on top the amp.  I'm thinking about getting another amp (if I add pod speakers) and moving the crossovers.  Front speakers sound great and lid speakers sound great stopped but you lose a lot at hwy speed.  The pods actually direct the speakers in a better direction to hear at speed than the lid speakers. 

Cowboy

[Glenncarp]

I've been playing around with the idea of making my Tour Pak detachable, and I know I have to do something about the amplifier if I want to keep the stereo.  I don't want to lose saddlebag space, so in-fairing looks like it.

I've looked at the BT4180, and I've read good things about it.  What I haven't seen is anyone using it to drive the TP speakers.  Will that work, and will I maintain full control via the hand controls?

I'm looking at the BT7P1 speakers for the front, but I'm concerned about weight.  A lot of the roads I ride are really rough, and I don't want to risk messing up the inner fairing.  Are there better options, or am I worrying about nothing?

Lastly, I don't see anything from Biketronics for the rear speaker pods.  I don't want to lose the hand controls back there, so the replacement pods aren't an option.  Will the 6.5" speakers work back there?

I am waiting for my Amp to come into my stereo guru's shop. I am having them install a J&L Amp to drive the front HAT 6.5" and the stock amp to drive the rear 6.5's. The rear can be fitted for the 6/5's with an adapter plate or cutting the hole larger in the tour pack pod. The first tech suggested removing stock Amp and adding the J&L to drive all 4 speakers, but the older tech put the kabash on the idea as he said the stock amp runs all the goodies like handle bar contrails, etc. from signals from the head unit. So, they are going to split the channels from the stock amp to signal the Focal amp. I am going to lose the balance, but who the heck EVER uses balance in a car much less a bike? They are also going to leave the HAT's as a unit even though you can split them into a component speaker, and use the old amp to keep driving the old tweeters up front. I have asked around and the consensus is that high ranges are harder to hear than base and adding two tweeters in one speaker grill will not affect the HAT's sound.

Speaker ought to rock as I have yet to find a single bad review about the HAT imagine series.

[05Train]

F-n Harley......You seriously lose the hand controls if you remove the amp?


Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

[tpb857]

I am waiting for my Amp to come into my stereo guru's shop. I am having them install a J&L Amp to drive the front HAT 6.5" and the stock amp to drive the rear 6.5's. The rear can be fitted for the 6/5's with an adapter plate or cutting the hole larger in the tour pack pod. The first tech suggested removing stock Amp and adding the J&L to drive all 4 speakers, but the older tech put the kabash on the idea as he said the stock amp runs all the goodies like handle bar contrails, etc. from signals from the head unit. So, they are going to split the channels from the stock amp to signal the Focal amp. I am going to lose the balance, but who the heck EVER uses balance in a car much less a bike? They are also going to leave the HAT's as a unit even though you can split them into a component speaker, and use the old amp to keep driving the old tweeters up front. I have asked around and the consensus is that high ranges are harder to hear than base and adding two tweeters in one speaker grill will not affect the HAT's sound.

Speaker ought to rock as I have yet to find a single bad review about the HAT imagine series.

I don't know how your bike is set up, but my 12 CVO SG, stock, had front and rear HD amps.  I changed all of the speakers, got rid of both stock amps (they were junk), got a Biketronics amp running all 6 speakers and kept the HK head unit.  I didn't lose any handlebar functions and everything still worked (XM, IPod, etc).  You should check out a wiring diagram for the sound system on your bike to see what is wired to the amps.

[2timen]

Thats true. I changed out my amp and speakers on my skunk. Still have the handle bar control. I'm planning on changing out the head unit soon and biketonics make a plug and play wire harness to keep the handle bar controls working with new head unit.

[1abastarsmda]

I've been playing around with the idea of making my Tour Pak detachable, and I know I have to do something about the amplifier if I want to keep the stereo.  I don't want to lose saddlebag space, so in-fairing looks like it.

I've looked at the BT4180, and I've read good things about it.  What I haven't seen is anyone using it to drive the TP speakers.  Will that work, and will I maintain full control via the hand controls?

I'm looking at the BT7P1 speakers for the front, but I'm concerned about weight.  A lot of the roads I ride are really rough, and I don't want to risk messing up the inner fairing.  Are there better options, or am I worrying about nothing?

Lastly, I don't see anything from Biketronics for the rear speaker pods.  I don't want to lose the hand controls back there, so the replacement pods aren't an option.  Will the 6.5" speakers work back there?

I know you can put the 6.5" speakers in the stock rear pods with these adaptors http://www.sidecarcycles.com/store/products/category/v-twin-audio-for-harley/#filter-term=427&order=0-  They also have some sort of rear speaker interface that I haven't quite figured out exactly what it does yet http://www.sidecarcycles.com/store/products/v-twin-audio-ultra-plug-rear-amplifier-interface/  I'm planning on giving them a call to figure out if this interface would be useful.  My initial plan was to just run speaker wires from the Biketronics amp direct to the rear speakers and just leave the stock speakers wires there unplugged.  I planned on leaving the controls on the side of the speaker pods connected.  It looks like those controls should still work then.  Note:  this is still in theory, as I haven't tried it yet.  I have the front 6.5 Titan II speakers running through the Biketronics amp and not much to say but "wow".  If anybody figures out how that interface helps, please post.

[05Train]

I guess I'll call Biketronics when I get a chance.  I would think it would be relatively simple to remove the factory amp and use an aftermarket one, but Lord knows Harley loves complicating things.

[1abastarsmda]

I guess I'll call Biketronics when I get a chance.  I would think it would be relatively simple to remove the factory amp and use an aftermarket one, but Lord knows Harley loves complicating things.

Biketronics makes rear pods with 7.1" speakers (they are on backorder right now...about 2 weeks wait time).  You can run the 7.1" front and rear then.  If you go that route, the only things you will lose are the controls that are on the side of each speaker pod, unless you can cut holes and reinstall them in their pods (but you may need to keep the stock amp for those side controls...not sure there).  The hand controls operate via the head unit, not the amp.  The only other thing you may lose is a fader control, depending on how you go about wiring everything.  It sounds like you are planning on detaching your tourpak, which means you'll need to setup some kind of quick disconnect for the rear speakers when you intend to remove the tourpak.

[lilcoot]

Hey, 05Train.  I just saw this thread, and I did just what you're talking about.  I have a FLHTCUSE8, and made the TourPak detachable, installed the BT4180, BT7.1 speakers in the fairing, 7.1 pods on the TourPak, and a Sony head unit.

The reviews are mixed.  The fairing speakers are a huge improvement over stock.  I can hear mid-range and upper frequencies pretty clearly at 75 mph, but bass notes are still inaudible.  Maybe that's the best we can expect while riding on the open road, but even parked, the bass is not that great.  I've cranked up the EQs on the iPod and the head unit, and the bass is just not right.  The speakers are in phase (I've checked), and Brian at Biketronics couldn't help.  I wouldn't be concerned about weight too much.  The 7.1s are virtually the same weight as the 6.5 HATs.  Any good speaker will weigh more than HD's junk speakers.

As for the rear pod speakers, I don't know what to tell you.  They work better than stock pod speakers and definitely work way better than speakers in the bag lids, but again, they are hard to hear while riding.  Plus, the bass isn't audible.  I never ride with a passenger, so space isn't an issue, but the BT pods are bigger than the stock pods, so if you have a BSR who isn't really, really skinny, she won't be comfortable getting her behind crushed for more than a few minutes.  The bigger speaker pods also make the TourPak harder to put on, but not a big deal.  Finally, the connectors for the rear pods that Biketronics provide are incredibly cheap units.  I'd be embarrassed to sell such garbage.

I'll try to look for pictures I took during the install.  Good luck, let me know if you need more info.

[lilcoot]

Here's the difference in the speaker sizes

[lilcoot]

This is the speaker adapter in the fairing.  Installation was easy.

[lilcoot]

The next two pics show the differences in size of the speaker pods from the front and side.

[lilcoot]

From the side

[05Train]

Wow, thanks lilcoot!

[1abastarsmda]

Hey, 05Train.  I just saw this thread, and I did just what you're talking about.  I have a FLHTCUSE8, and made the TourPak detachable, installed the BT4180, BT7.1 speakers in the fairing, 7.1 pods on the TourPak, and a Sony head unit.

The reviews are mixed.  The fairing speakers are a huge improvement over stock.  I can hear mid-range and upper frequencies pretty clearly at 75 mph, but bass notes are still inaudible.  Maybe that's the best we can expect while riding on the open road, but even parked, the bass is not that great.  I've cranked up the EQs on the iPod and the head unit, and the bass is just not right.  The speakers are in phase (I've checked), and Brian at Biketronics couldn't help.  I wouldn't be concerned about weight too much.  The 7.1s are virtually the same weight as the 6.5 HATs.  Any good speaker will weigh more than HD's junk speakers.

As for the rear pod speakers, I don't know what to tell you.  They work better than stock pod speakers and definitely work way better than speakers in the bag lids, but again, they are hard to hear while riding.  Plus, the bass isn't audible.  I never ride with a passenger, so space isn't an issue, but the BT pods are bigger than the stock pods, so if you have a BSR who isn't really, really skinny, she won't be comfortable getting her behind crushed for more than a few minutes.  The bigger speaker pods also make the TourPak harder to put on, but not a big deal.  Finally, the connectors for the rear pods that Biketronics provide are incredibly cheap units.  I'd be embarrassed to sell such garbage.

I'll try to look for pictures I took during the install.  Good luck, let me know if you need more info.

Wow, those pods look huge on there.  Are they open at the rear to take advantage of the vents into the tourpak, which is supposed to help with the bass?  They look like the aim the speakers much more inward instead of at the rider, which I would imagine would make those harder to hear.  Did you try putting Dynamat inside the fairing?  I did that with mine and it seemed to make the bass much tighter and seemed to make the sound more directed to me.  Before and after Dynamat, if you put your hand in front of the speaker you can feel an airstream coming at your hands multiple times what it was before adding the Dynamat.  It was a very noticeable difference.  I went a bit overboard with the Dynamat to make sure I wasn't losing anything via that route.

[Glenncarp]

I know you can put the 6.5" speakers in the stock rear pods with these adaptors http://www.sidecarcycles.com/store/products/category/v-twin-audio-for-harley/#filter-term=427&order=0-  They also have some sort of rear speaker interface that I haven't quite figured out exactly what it does yet http://www.sidecarcycles.com/store/products/v-twin-audio-ultra-plug-rear-amplifier-interface/  I'm planning on giving them a call to figure out if this interface would be useful.  My initial plan was to just run speaker wires from the Biketronics amp direct to the rear speakers and just leave the stock speakers wires there unplugged.  I planned on leaving the controls on the side of the speaker pods connected.  It looks like those controls should still work then.  Note:  this is still in theory, as I haven't tried it yet.  I have the front 6.5 Titan II speakers running through the Biketronics amp and not much to say but "wow".  If anybody figures out how that interface helps, please post.

It looks to me like the interface allows you to add an amp to the head unit without doing what my Audio Techs are doing, bridging the stock amp to the new one. As I wrote before, the only thing I am going to lose is balance by splitting the stock amp channels. I think I am reading this right......

[lilcoot]

You're welcome.  After reading my post again, it sounds like I was really ragging on Biketronics.  I think their stuff is very good, and I'm not willing to spend thousands for marginal sound on a 'sickle, so it's a good deal.

Get really good speakers for the fairing, cause 95% of what you'll hear comes from them.  The BT 7.1s are probably the best speaker available for the $$.  If I had to do it again, I'd just get some good 5 1/4" speakers for the pods.  You'll get better volume than stock, and the speakers will be pointing at you more. That's as good as it will get.  Plus, you'd still be able to bring your BSR along.  Others may disagree, but I don't think bag speakers are worth the cost, either.  They're even harder to hear than pod speakers because of their location.

The BT4180 is great amp, but has no gain controls for the different channels.  If your speakers are well matched, that's not a problem, but if they're not matched, you might be unhappy with the lack of adjustability.  The other amp I'd recommend is the ARC 125.  It's very good, and costs less.

That's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions:  They're like a$$holes.  Everybody has one, and most of them stink.

Good luck!

Dan

[05Train]

Well here's another question....Can I run the 7.1 speakers up front with a 2-channel amp, then run the rear speakers off of the H-K head unit?

[Glenncarp]

Well here's another question....Can I run the 7.1 speakers up front with a 2-channel amp, then run the rear speakers off of the H-K head unit?

Another question to your question....Why?? Head unit is way under powered to run any speakers effectively unless you meant running the rear speakers off of the stock amp. Then the answer would be yes, but as stated before, if the new amp has a gain and the stock does not, then you can not balance the output between the two amps

[05Train]

Another question to your question....Why?? Head unit is way under powered to run any speakers effectively unless you meant running the rear speakers off of the stock amp. Then the answer would be yes, but as stated before, if the new amp has a gain and the stock does not, then you can not balance the output between the two amps

Would be running the rears only off of the head unit (hypothetically).

[Glenncarp]

Would be running the rears only off of the head unit (hypothetically).

IMO that is not a good idea. I think the rear speakers would be WAY under powered as the head unit pushes 80W and the stock amp 200W. I have to have the volume 7/8 of the way up with the stock amp powering both sets of speakers, You will lose the sound out of the rear speakers if they are not powered by an amp.

[05Train]

Never a cheap way out.....

[Glenncarp]

Never a cheap way out.....

No doubt, like i said to the wife signing a $40K check to HD......"Well honey, at least I do not have to spend any more money on upgrades"!!! That was 2011, count to date on extras is at about $5,500 adding in the sound upgrade bout to happen!!!

[05Train]

No doubt, like i said to the wife signing a $40K check to HD......"Well honey, at least I do not have to spend any more money on upgrades"!!! That was 2011, count to date on extras is at about $5,500 adding in the sound upgrade bout to happen!!!

True 'dat.

She said, "let's get a CVO this time so you don't have to change anything".

CCE upper tree and 575 bars are in-process, shocks & monotubes done, and we're gonna need a stereo.  Shoulda kept the Beemer and picked up a meth habit....Woulda been cheaper.

[1abastarsmda]

Well here's another question....Can I run the 7.1 speakers up front with a 2-channel amp, then run the rear speakers off of the H-K head unit?

Actually, you can run the 7.1 speakers front and rear from the Biketronics 2 channel amp.  I can't remember if it's running them in series or parallel now, but if you talk to the tech guy at Biketronics, he'll tell you exactly how to run them.  The setup they have with the ohms on the speakers and amp will allow for this...running 4 speakers on 2 channels.  It's the same exact setup that you would be running if you ran fairing and lower speakers off the same 2 channel amp.  I should rephrase above and mention that I know this is fine with their 6.5" Titan II speakers and I'm assuming they have the same impedance on the 7.1".  You won't have any fade from front to rear with that setup.  You'll have the same output front and rear.  Running the rears direct from the H-K head unit wouldn't make any sense when you can do the above.  I don't think you would hear anything from the rear without them being amplified.

[Gnarl78]

I installed a RF 300x2 amp on top of my stock HK head unit under the front fairing to power my fairing speakers (6.5" Polk MM651s); and my stock Harley Boom amp mounted under the tour pak powers the rear speaker pods. I put a set of the new J&M 5.25" speakers in them. I'm pleased with the sound, and it was fairly inexpensive as far as audio upgrades go.

[lilcoot]

Wow, those pods look huge on there.  Are they open at the rear to take advantage of the vents into the tourpak, which is supposed to help with the bass?  They look like the aim the speakers much more inward instead of at the rider, which I would imagine would make those harder to hear.  Did you try putting Dynamat inside the fairing?  I did that with mine and it seemed to make the bass much tighter and seemed to make the sound more directed to me.  Before and after Dynamat, if you put your hand in front of the speaker you can feel an airstream coming at your hands multiple times what it was before adding the Dynamat.  It was a very noticeable difference.  I went a bit overboard with the Dynamat to make sure I wasn't losing anything via that route.

That's what I asked, too, and they said porting the pods didn't really make much difference in the bass.

I installed a RF 300x2 amp on top of my stock HK head unit under the front fairing to power my fairing speakers (6.5" Polk MM651s); and my stock Harley Boom amp mounted under the tour pak powers the rear speaker pods. I put a set of the new J&M 5.25" speakers in them. I'm pleased with the sound, and it was fairly inexpensive as far as audio upgrades go.

I agree.  The stock unit is okay with stock pipes at speeds up to 60 mph, maybe.  Anything in the real world needs a little more, but to really sound good, one would have to spend thousands.  I think what you did makes the most sense for the $$$.   

The only other thing I'm considering is putting Hog Tunes 7" "woofers" in the lower fairings.  I have a new set sitting in the box in my garage that I bought two years ago, so I might as well try them.  They aren't really woofers, but I'm hoping they make a little more bass. 

[1abastarsmda]

The only other thing I'm considering is putting Hog Tunes 7" "woofers" in the lower fairings.  I have a new set sitting in the box in my garage that I bought two years ago, so I might as well try them.  They aren't really woofers, but I'm hoping they make a little more bass. 

What are you going to use to power the Hog Tunes in the lowers?  I'm thinking the amp you have in the fairing may be a little too much for those speakers to handle (without taking a look at the specs).  On my last bike, I had Hog Tunes front and rear, in the lowers, and the Hog Tunes Tweeter Pod.  It never seemed as though I could really hear the speakers in the lowers, as they seemed to be overshadowed by the speakers in the fairing.  That's why I didn't put speakers in the lowers again.

[lilcoot]

The Hog Tunes "woofers" come with a 140 watt amp as a package.  I'm not sure speakers in the lowers will be worthwhile, but it won't hurt to try, since I already have the speakers.  On my '12 Street Glide, the lowers speakers were useless, but I'm really wondering if it was the poor quality of the stock speakers. 

[Glenncarp]

Wow, those pods look huge on there.  Are they open at the rear to take advantage of the vents into the tourpak, which is supposed to help with the bass?  They look like the aim the speakers much more inward instead of at the rider, which I would imagine would make those harder to hear.  Did you try putting Dynamat inside the fairing?  I did that with mine and it seemed to make the bass much tighter and seemed to make the sound more directed to me.  Before and after Dynamat, if you put your hand in front of the speaker you can feel an airstream coming at your hands multiple times what it was before adding the Dynamat.  It was a very noticeable difference.  I went a bit overboard with the Dynamat to make sure I wasn't losing anything via that route.

That's what I asked, too, and they said porting the pods didn't really make much difference in the bass.

I installed a RF 300x2 amp on top of my stock HK head unit under the front fairing to power my fairing speakers (6.5" Polk MM651s); and my stock Harley Boom amp mounted under the tour pak powers the rear speaker pods. I put a set of the new J&M 5.25" speakers in them. I'm pleased with the sound, and it was fairly inexpensive as far as audio upgrades go.

I agree.  The stock unit is okay with stock pipes at speeds up to 60 mph, maybe.  Anything in the real world needs a little more, but to really sound good, one would have to spend thousands.  I think what you did makes the most sense for the $$$.   

The only other thing I'm considering is putting Hog Tunes 7" "woofers" in the lower fairings.  I have a new set sitting in the box in my garage that I bought two years ago, so I might as well try them.  They aren't really woofers, but I'm hoping they make a little more bass. 


I can confirm that the porting to the tour pack definitely adds bass response. Just remember you have to have the Amp "flashed" so it produces more lower end to take advantage of the ports. I am going to line my pods with sound mat once the HAT's are installed to increase the port effect. Ill report back. Still waiting on my back ordered amp!