Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tn.Heritage]

Well the 19 models will all come with the Primary vented from what I heard so the Mothership feels this is the fix. They sent 2 engineers from Milwaukee to Smith Brothers to fix a guy I knows bike, they installed the vent in the upper most corner towards the rear of the primary and guaranteed it to fix the issue. Of course everytime they filled his trans they used 20w/50 SE oil which I feel is too thin for a trans but hopefully it will help his CVO. Supposedly he got a call from the Vice President of HD which is a Woman I heard, she said they will get his bike fixed and then she flew the engineers down to Tn. to do the fix.
Now before you go and shoot down my story, just remember I mentioned a long time ago about adding the slingers for the fix but I then was treated like a mangy dog but they tired the slingers and it helped some but didn't stop all the transfer. So all the 2019's will have the vent in them and they also said that if any 2017 or 18 models show the transfer they will fix them with the vent whether they are out of warranty or not.
I also found out that Cool Springs HD in Nashville Tn. has been putting the vent in for a month or so on their own anyways so they thought that was the fix also. They came up with there own venting system.
Just passing this along so don't shoot the messenger.... LOL.

[iski]

Sounds good, thanks for the report on the venting system.  Good for the 2017s & 2018s out there as well.

[BostonboyDH]

   
     Wont be long before the 19's are shipping then we'll see if they have the vent installed . Time & some miles will tell if that's the real fix.  I have no interest in buying another CVO touring rig my 09 will be with me until I have to put a 3rd wheel on it, but I might be interested in a new softail platform at some point.

[grc]

Hopefully that will take care of the problem for those affected, but I still question why this has only become a problem in the past four years.  There is a root cause that still hasn't been acknowledged, and I'm guessing if the vent works we will never hear from Harley what is really causing this problem.  I wonder what kind of maintenance will be needed for that vent?  Does it have a filter?  One way valve, or just an open vent?

Jerry

[mark]

Help me out here - what problem are they fixing with a vent? 

[Tn.Heritage]

Help me out here - what problem are they fixing with a vent?

Oil transfer from the trans to the primary.
   IMO the 20/50 oil is too thin to run in the trans. J&B performance serviced a bike that had transfer, they re-installed Redline Shockproof in the trans. Since this service there has been no more transfer.

[ultrarider123]

I wonder what kind of maintenance will be needed for that vent?  Does it have a filter?  One way valve, or just an open vent?

Jerry

I'm with you, Jerry, and was pondering on the same questions.  Maybe the MoCo is going back to a chain drive and can use that vent hose for a new fangled chain oiler system like they used to have...

[mark]

Did HD ever identify how the primary fluid was transferring to the transmission?  I know this is their "fix" for the problem, but it would not be the first time they initiated a fix that didn't address the root problem.

[iski]

One assumption to ponder - consider what pondered assumptions identify about those pondering assumptions - is there is a low pressure/high pressure created in the primary or a portion of the primary.   The vent would allow that to equalize.  Why?  My best guess on the HD tech response would be:  "They all do that, it's normal."

Or, as Haird suggested, the vent hose will have a dual purpose as a chain oiler.   

[skratch]

Oil transfer from the trans to the primary.
   IMO the 20/50 oil is too thin to run in the trans. J&B performance serviced a bike that had transfer, they re-installed Redline Shockproof in the trans. Since this service there has been no more transfer.

20/50 has virtually the same viscosity as formula +, and 75/90 gear oil.  if you're putting 75/140 in there to mitigate the oil transfer, you're just putting a band aid on the real problem.  that's what needs to be addressed, not just using thicker oil.

[grc]

The fluid is transferring from the trans to the primary, so for a vent in the primary to supposedly fix it that means they think the  primary is somehow developing a partial vacuum.  The trans is already vented to atmosphere, so it can't be a buildup of pressure in the trans unless they somehow managed to screw up the trans venting system during the redesign of the trans case.  So my next question is, how does the primary develop a vacuum?  This is another issue like the sumping issue, where Harley either has no clue or they do know what's wrong but are looking for a cheap band-aid instead of fixing the root cause.  The older transmissions, 5 speed and 6 speed Cruise Drive, didn't have this problem.  The problem seems to have started in 2014 as best I can tell, after Harley made changes to the Cruise Drive trans, and got worse when they went to the oil cooled M8's for 2017.  Replacing a shaft spacer and seal fixes many of the 2014-2016 bikes, but not the 2017-2018 bikes.  Hmmmmm.

Jerry

[grc]

As scratch noted above, SAE 50 motor oil falls within the upper half of the viscosity range for SAE 90 gear oil.  See attached chart.

Jerry

[bbrown]

TmHeritage...let us know how this works.  I assume it’s a one way valve.  ..right?   This just might be the fix... what’s puzzling is why this was not discovered in the design,engineering,and testing of the M8.?

Just saying 

[08glide]

with the vent, maybe now you can have an old style H-D, such as a knuckle,pan or shovel, where it'll leave a puddle of oil wherever you park it. like a dog, marking it's spot.     

[dayne66]

with the vent, maybe now you can have an old style H-D, such as a knuckle,pan or shovel, where it'll leave a puddle of oil wherever you park it. like a dog, marking it's spot.     

Honoring that tradition should help sales!

[Tn.Heritage]

Here is the link to the pictures from another rider that has vented his or according to the thread the rep did it or saw it and went back to HD. Sorry, I'm not getting the whole thread, just the picture.

&ifg=1

[J.D.]

So the local dealers will be drilling and tapping the inner primaries and installing vent tubes, similar in concept to the vents on the transmissions?  (old 5-speeds anyway, not sure if the 6-speeds on the M8s are vented or not).

[grc]

So the local dealers will be drilling and tapping the inner primaries and installing vent tubes, similar in concept to the vents on the transmissions?  (old 5-speeds anyway, not sure if the 6-speeds on the M8s are vented or not).

They are vented through the top cover with a U-shaped hose, like the earlier transmissions.

Jerry

[mark]

I also found a pic of how to fix the oil transfer problem.  Will fix sumping too.

[Twolanerider]

Am I the only one who is even slightly unsettled when the response to a new problem that's never been clearly diagnosed in a sealed system that's only received evolutionary changes over an extended period of years is: "let's poke a hole in it?"

[iski]

Am I the only one who is even slightly unsettled when the response to a new problem that's never been clearly diagnosed in a sealed system that's only received evolutionary changes over an extended period of years is: "let's poke a hole in it?"

Sounds like steam escaping?   

[Rooster]

I also found a pic of how to fix the oil transfer problem.  Will fix sumping too.

Cant argue that

[ultrarider123]

I also found a pic of how to fix the oil transfer problem.  Will fix sumping too.

Now DAT'S phuny rat dare....

[grc]

Am I the only one who is even slightly unsettled when the response to a new problem that's never been clearly diagnosed in a sealed system that's only received evolutionary changes over an extended period of years is: "let's poke a hole in it?"

Nope, I'm right there with you.  As an old shade tree guy for almost 54 years now, I do have a certain amount of appreciation for just doing what it takes to get something working.  But I don't expect shade tree crap from a manufacturer on a new highly overpriced piece of equipment.  For the prices they charge, I expect first class engineering and quality.  I guess that's why I've refused to buy anything from them in many years now.  I often question if they actually have an engineering department at all, or do they just farm everything out to their lowest bidder suppliers?

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

Nope, I'm right there with you.  As an old shade tree guy for almost 54 years now, I do have a certain amount of appreciation for just doing what it takes to get something working.  But I don't expect shade tree crap from a manufacturer on a new highly overpriced piece of equipment.  For the prices they charge, I expect first class engineering and quality.  I guess that's why I've refused to buy anything from them in many years now.  I often question if they actually have an engineering department at all, or do they just farm everything out to their lowest bidder suppliers?

Jerry

Your remark suggests another question Jerry.  The supply chain.  In a normal relationship a supplier (for a worst case scenario think of Takata) will suffer charge backs or other negotiated costs/penalties if their engineering or manufacturing is deficient and incurs costs on a final assembler or up-chain manufacturer. 

If that final OE has guidelines or poor engineering/assembly that leads to the problems the suppliers simply bail.  The trade press, however, doesn't say much about Harley suppliers bailing on them.  They're not captive suppliers.  So can't help but wonder how much of the all too common problems seen are (at that level of negotiation) recognized by Harley to be Harley's fault so recovery costs aren't pushed downhill or, if not, what else is unreported in the background.

[85FXRS]

I also found a pic of how to fix the oil transfer problem.  Will fix sumping too.

now there is a real fix.

[bbrown]

TmHeritage...let us know how this works.  I assume it’s a one way valve.  ..right?   This just might be the fix... what’s puzzling is why this was not discovered in the design,engineering,and testing of the M8.?

Just saying 

only 3 weeks till we see the 2019 lineup.  I’ll bet the M8s all have this

[Tn.Heritage]

only 3 weeks till we see the 2019 lineup.  I’ll bet the M8s all have this

  That's what I was told anyways.

[Fullsac Performance]

I expect first class engineering and quality. 
Jerry

Refer to reply # 18.

SG

[Rooster]

Most reliable Harley would be with some other motor in it.

[Buck Rogers]

How does lowering pressure in the primary help stop oil transfer from transmission? I would've thought it had the opposite result.

[Fullsac Performance]

How does lowering pressure in the primary help stop oil transfer from transmission? I would've thought it had the opposite result.

In theory the primary is sealed and the trans is vented. Because oil is transferring from the trans into the primary we can competently say there is a passage between the two. I would be the first to claim the primary runs substantially hotter than the trans. During heat up the primary's expanding air or gasses would push into the trans and out the vent. During cool down the the primary would pull a vacuum. Maybe the primary is sucking the the oil out of the trans during cool down? If this is what's actually going on, adding a vent would be the cure. Steve Cole and I both have delt with oil transfer from day one with these M8s on the dyno after running them hard. There are many cool down periods in a normal dyno session while making map adjustments. The symptoms of an over filled primary is power loss and heat gain as the drag from excessive oil increases. Similar situation to the crankcase filling up at a much lower level. The last 2018-117 I dynoed lost a couple of HP at the very end of the tune. I pulled the primay cover and sure enough the oil level was about an inch too high. I never considered the oil being drawn over as the primary cooled? Time for me to try a vent too.

Steve@fullsac.com


Black bikes are faster.

[mark]

Steve, why did we not see the fluid transfer from the trans to the primary on the twin cam bikes?

[Fullsac Performance]

Steve, why did we not see the fluid transfer from the trans to the primary on the twin cam bikes?

Not a clue? Never grenaded a trans to ever have one apart to see the path or differences.

Steve@fullsac.com

[Buck Rogers]

In theory the primary is sealed and the trans is vented. Because oil is transferring from the trans into the primary we can competently say there is a passage between the two. I would be the first to claim the primary runs substantially hotter than the trans. During heat up the primary's expanding air or gasses would push into the trans and out the vent. During cool down the the primary would pull a vacuum. Maybe the primary is sucking the the oil out of the trans during cool down? If this is what's actually going on, adding a vent would be the cure. Steve Cole and I both have delt with oil transfer from day one with these M8s on the dyno after running them hard. There are many cool down periods in a normal dyno session while making map adjustments. The symptoms of an over filled primary is power loss and heat gain as the drag from excessive oil increases. Similar situation to the crankcase filling up at a much lower level. The last 2018-117 I dynoed lost a couple of HP at the very end of the tune. I pulled the primay cover and sure enough the oil level was about an inch too high. I never considered the oil being drawn over as the primary cooled? Time for me to try a vent too.

Steve@fullsac.com


Black bikes are faster.

Thanks, Steve.

That makes a lot of sense and I hope it is the fix for the transfer problem. I have a 2017 FLHXSE with this problem along with other problems. Been toying with trading for 2019 but waiting to see colours.

[Fullsac Performance]

Thanks, Steve.

That makes a lot of sense and I hope it is the fix for the transfer problem. I have a 2017 FLHXSE with this problem along with other problems. Been toying with trading for 2019 but waiting to see colours.

The vent does make sense. The differential and transfer case in every vehicle I have ever owned is vented. I find water in the wheel bearings on my boat trailer every year living in Havasu. It's 115 deg and you back it in the cold water, sucks it right in as it cools. The wheel bearings are not vented. If the vent is the fix, that would explain it. The latest Harley tech read here first on the CVO forum!  "Primary cold suck" discovered and fixed. Let's hope. Lol..

I would hold off on that 2019 until about March. See what has actually been fixed and what new issues were created in the process.

Steve@fullsac.com

[grc]

So once again, Harley has changed something and screwed it up, they have to know what it is, but they won't tell us and they won't go back and fix it the right way.  Here comes another band-aid instead.  I can't wait to see this vent they've come up with.  Is it just a hole drilled in the case with a tube attached, or did they at least spend more than a buck to come up with a good vent that won't suck dirt and water into the primary?

Jerry

[Tn.Heritage]

So once again, Harley has changed something and screwed it up, they have to know what it is, but they won't tell us and they won't go back and fix it the right way.  Here comes another band-aid instead.  I can't wait to see this vent they've come up with.  Is it just a hole drilled in the case with a tube attached, or did they at least spend more than a buck to come up with a good vent that won't suck dirt and water into the primary?

Jerry

Jerry other than a picture of one someone made I think, I haven't seen HD's one but I'd hope it would cost more than a buck but who knows.
 I can say that it has solved the transfer from the guy I knows CVO, he was transferring his tranny dry around 500 miles and now he's had 0 transfer in 2000 miles. He had ran the trans dry 3 times it was so bad. I actually think that Cool Springs HD came up with this fix on there own according to what I read. StoneCold also has a fix but it's a bit more complicated but works as well. It's over on the HD forums, he and Steve Cole came up with his fix.

[bf2002flht]

Well just got my bike back today, Harley installed a breather hose in my primary since the first fix made it worse. The HD fix looks nothing like the pic earlier in this thread (thank goodness). My dealer called MOCO for direction and they sent them a primary vent/breather kit. It’s almost unnoticeable unless you are looking for it. I will try to get a pic later, but this is my direct experience and bike.

[OBB]

Well just got my bike back today, Harley installed a breather hose in my primary since the first fix made it worse. The HD fix looks nothing like the pic earlier in this thread (thank goodness). My dealer called MOCO for direction and they sent them a primary vent/breather kit. It’s almost unnoticeable unless you are looking for it. I will try to get a pic later, but this is my direct experience and bike.

What was the first fix they tried that made it worse?

[bf2002flht]

What was the first fix they tried that made it worse?

It was an oil deflector that went in under the transmission side cover. Apparently it’s the first attempt step. I was told when they put the vent tube in the primary the instructions were to remove the first fix.

[grc]

I for one would still love to know why this wasn't a problem on the earlier engines but became a big problem on the M8's.  As best I can tell the primary has always run hotter than the trans, but that didn't lead to fluid transfer on the TC's.

Jerry

[bf2002flht]

I for one would still love to know why this wasn't a problem on the earlier engines but became a big problem on the M8's.  As best I can tell the primary has always run hotter than the trans, but that didn't lead to fluid transfer on the TC's.

Jerry

It’s funny that the TSA 0022 (I think) refers to 14-16 and 17-18. So somebody at HD heard about it I would guess, but it’s MOCO, who knows. I do agree I never heard of it prior to the M8’s either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HOGMIKE]

It’s funny that the TSA 0022 (I think) refers to 14-16 and 17-18. So somebody at HD heard about it I would guess, but it’s MOCO, who knows. I do agree I never heard of it prior to the M8’s either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dealership now has access to the kit to fix the issue and they are allowed to do it with their technicians instead of waiting on factory techs to come out.
There is still a “procedure “ to do before the fix, but I’ll bet it will be a running change from the factory.
 

[flash1034]

Dealership now has access to the kit to fix the issue and they are allowed to do it with their technicians instead of waiting on factory techs to come out.
There is still a “procedure “ to do before the fix, but I’ll bet it will be a running change from the factory.
 

Anybody have a picture of this fix?

[bf2002flht]

Anybody have a picture of this fix?

Can’t see much, will try in better light, but just a vent hose at the inside rear of the primary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HOGMIKE]

Hard to see the hose

[HOGMIKE]

More

[flash1034]

More

So they drill a hole in the case and stick that on there?

[HOGMIKE]

Yup

[grc]

Sure hope that's a check valve/filter on the end.

Jerry

[HOGMIKE]

Sure hope that's a check valve/filter on the end.

Jerry

Nope

[CVOFla]

What if the simple fix was to put the kick stand on the right side of the bike? 

[HOGMIKE]

What if the simple fix was to put the kick stand on the right side of the bike? 

Funny, but that was the suggestion I made to our service manager exactly one month ago!
He didn’t get the humor in it.

 

[grc]

If they don't want to relocate the jiffy stand, then put the clutch on the right side of the engine.  See if the primary oil then "migrates" to the transmission.   

Before I die I'd love to see Harley just once own up to a problem they created without all the "never heard of that before" BS, then the "it's within our tolerance" BS, and so on.  Being honest and forthright isn't their strong suit, but they really should try it.  Then they should fix the problem they created with their design changes without jerking customers around for years and feeding them BS.

Jerry

[J.D.]

You are more likely to be struck by lightning than that happening.

[yobtaf103]

What if the simple fix was to put the kick stand on the right side of the bike? 

BMW never laughed at that humor either , remember their K series smokers on cold starts oil creeping past valve seals, yep designed the motor with head on left= side stand !!!

[spook120]

Yeah, or the front fork issue BMW had on the GSA bikes.  At least BMW stepped up, recalled the bikes and engineered a fix that works. 

[scottt]

BMW never laughed at that humor either , remember their K series smokers on cold starts oil creeping past valve seals, yep designed the motor with head on left= side stand !!!

BMW corrected the issue within one model year ( 2012 ) and properly repaired many that failed.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[HOGMIKE]

I’ll bet they didn’t tell their customers “it’s within specs” and “they all do that”

 

[scottt]

I’ll bet they didn’t tell their customers “it’s within specs” and “they all do that”

 

No. I can give you my personal experience with BMW when i had a issue with a 18 K1600 B.

Took the bike in for first service at 600 miles. Service advisor calls to tell me they discovered a oil leak and needed to investigate. Between tearing into the bike and getting factory approvals it took a week to sort out. The service guy invited me to come down and see the faulty seal and what was involved. Took him up on the offer.

The seal that was installed wrong at the factory was going to take longer to acquire than acceptable so they ordered a complete transmission unit and put the bike back together. They did a great job, no more issues. The factory rep authorized $500 in BMW accessories/gear or $300 cash as a tokin of there appreciation. Overall they had my bike tied up 3 weeks and they felt bad i had that happen.

In my 28 years and 12 new Harleys, i never had that experience. Will say, Harley was able to make repairs quickly but never gave me an apology.

Mistakes/issues are going to happen. It's all in how you handle them. Be upfront and accept responsibility. Make things right.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[Bav]

Finally got round to checking my 18 CVO RG. Haven’t ridden it due to moving house and having to work on the new place for the last few months.

Empty gearbox full primary!! Will get onto the dealer about the vent kit and get it done at the same time as the clutch recall.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigLock]

Same thing with my 18 CVO RG in shop now for the vent kit

[Para Bellum]

Has anyone tried Redline Shockproof Heavy in the trans to see if it reduces transfer?

[grc]

Has anyone tried Redline Shockproof Heavy in the trans to see if it reduces transfer?

There's no reason why it would.  Don't let the name of the product fool you, it's the same viscosity as the other lubricants people normally use (75w90).  The name "Heavy" is just there to differentiate between the normal weight fluid and their racing "Light" and "Super Light" versions used for less drag in certain automotive racing applications.  The product is loaded with extreme pressure additives so they make silly claims about it being equivalent to a 75w250 in their ads, but that is not the actual viscosity of the fluid.

Jerry

[spook120]

I use Red Line in my 17 CVO.  Seems to work just fine.  Never had issue with sumping, oil transfer or anything else.  I must have gotten one of the good ones! 

[sjbyrne]

I use Red Line in my 17 CVO.  Seems to work just fine.  Never had issue with sumping, oil transfer or anything else.  I must have gotten one of the good ones!

Red Line user (all holes, specific product) here too. It's really good product. There are a lot of good ones out there, my '17 CVO Limited included. The ones with issues are a very small minority for sure. Glad you're in the majority!

[Aussie]

New fix is to reduce lubrication transfer, you would expect a better solution to eliminate transfer between primary and transmission! 

Big question is what's the difference between the Twin Cam and M8 design to cause the transfer?

[Chains]

Looks like Feuling thinks they have a fix.

https://www.easternperformance.com/feuling-3088-black-aluminum-vented-oil-dipstick-17-19-harley-m8-fltr-flhr.html?fbclid=IwAR05K4mYwSgAmJ98_lzhWwCD6-zKcXFN2Ohz1Hve5QOvu75_zqJP0ylMs7Y

[grc]

Looks like Feuling thinks they have a fix.

https://www.easternperformance.com/feuling-3088-black-aluminum-vented-oil-dipstick-17-19-harley-m8-fltr-flhr.html?fbclid=IwAR05K4mYwSgAmJ98_lzhWwCD6-zKcXFN2Ohz1Hve5QOvu75_zqJP0ylMs7Y

No, they just think they can flim-flam a bunch of people and make some easy money.  These dipstick vents (more than one company is selling them) won't affect sumping, or fluid transfer, or improve performance.  They will lighten your wallet, which is the real objective.  If an engine has so much "blow-by" as to need an atmospheric vent, I'd suggest fixing the cause of the blow-by would be a better use of the money.

Jerry

[Bav]

Had the vent kit fitted yesterday during service and clutch recall. Just need to monitor levels now to check it’s cured the migration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigLock]

Got mine back last week for the vent fix. The Mothership said this is the fix I'm not going to keep checking oil level . If this is the fix then I will check it at oil change. Beside if it goes warranty can fix it.

[HOGMIKE]

Got mine back last week for the vent fix. The Mothership said this is the fix I'm not going to keep checking oil level . If this is the fix then I will check it at oil change. Beside if it goes warranty can fix it.

My oil transfer issues started with my 2017 limited
Dealer said that issue and all the other issues I had with that bike were all taken care of with the new 2019. I like the color of the new one and instead of fighting with our lemon laws I made the switch.
At 230 miles in March my transmission was dry. All the oil was in the primary.
Dealer insisted that they had sold about 800 of the cvo in all the stores and they all were fine.
I kept getting the same runaround about lugging, high rpm running, over heating etc etc.
NONE of my other Harleys had this problem. This was not my first rodeo.
Factory guy comes out and puts the vent in, 5000 miles later, all oils are where they’re supposed to be. Would not comment WHY it was happening but we now know why.
Harley hasn’t fixed the cause, just put a rubber hose on the primary and call it good.
Service department never checked to see what levels are in the 3 sumps when they did customer oil changes. Guess what? Mine was not the only one.
2020 models have the hose, I haven’t seen the parts book to see if any of the seals have changed, just another new oil pump I guess. Better scavenging they say.
JME

[2019CVONH]

BMW never laughed at that humor either , remember their K series smokers on cold starts oil creeping past valve seals, yep designed the motor with head on left= side stand !!!

BMW K bikes are in line 4 or 6 cyl. The "R" bikes are opposing twin cyl. bikes. This issues existed only for a short period of time and this got corrected. I've had 7 BMW's and none from 1994 have done it but the Air Heads did it.

[HAWG RIDER]

I have a 2019 CVO Limited purchased last Nov. I have 6500 miles on my bike. I check my transmission fluid every 500 miles and it is full, no vent installed. Why are some bikes having fluid transfer issues and mine isn't?

[grc]

I have a 2019 CVO Limited purchased last Nov. I have 6500 miles on my bike. I check my transmission fluid every 500 miles and it is full, no vent installed. Why are some bikes having fluid transfer issues and mine isn't?

Short answer, a lack of consistency in Harley's products.  It's the same reason some have sumping problems and others do not. 

Jerry

[Robmay]

Is the fluid transfer and sumping not the same thing?

Rob


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Twolanerider]

Is the fluid transfer and sumping not the same thing?

Rob


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh Lordie no Rob.  Harley would never be satisfied with just a single unresolved engineering issue.  Transfer is fluid migration between trans and primary.  Sumping is an internal engine issue.  Thank gawd our design isn't like a modern Indian where all share a common fluid and drain.  Harley would have had to engineer the hell out of that system to create both problems at the same time!

[Robmay]

Thanks Don. So where does the engine oil go when it sumps?

Rob


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Twolanerider]

Thanks Don. So where does the engine oil go when it sumps?

Rob


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Harley engines are intended to be a "dry sump" system.  That's an engine where the crankshaft isn't rotating through a pool of oil in the bottom of an oil pan as most car engines do.  The oil is circulated continuously and continuously lubricating the rotating and other moving assemblies but the oil capacity not actively doing that at any given time remains in the remote oil pan (where we drain the oil from).

The benefit to this is that there no parasitic power loss from the crankshaft having to swim through the liquid wall of oil with every rotation.  The "sumping" problem so many are dealing with (and we're always hoping doesn't happen) is when something occurs and an amount of oil does in fact pool in the bottom of the engine that is large enough in quantity/mass that it becomes that parasitic drag on the engine that it was never designed for.  Power goes down, heat goes up, when bad enough parts fail and engines die.

[Robmay]

Thank you again Don. Very good description (for me! ).

Rob


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk