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CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: BadAss2 on February 11, 2006, 01:56:47 PM
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Was at the local Harley dealer yesterday and was told that at their last dealer meeting 2 weeks ago, that Harley announced due to the EPA regulations restricting engine modifications, that Harley will discontinue the Screamin Eagle exhaust product line. Can anyone confirm this?
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hello my name is trippin
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The general manager of San Diego H-D told me the same thing two weeks ago.He said a bunch dealers are putting in large orders for the SE Exhausts and stockpiling them. He also said he wouldn't be ordering any more than what his customers wanted.
Big B
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The situation with G-man narrowing more and more our ability to differentiate our rides and express our individuality is just incredible. Read http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1136645133
it covers where the EPA is heading and how truely helpful the moco is being in giving them everything they want. If HD stops selling SE pipes, then SE other performance parts are definately next. A lot of inovation from smaller companies will be lost since they cannot keep up with the cost and complexity that epa "approved" drive train parts will require. We'll have a ten year gap (remember the late 70s and 80s for cars) before new "approved" technology truely emerges into the motorcycle parts availability list. This just pisses me off >:(
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We all need to keep in mind these regs have been in place for the auto industry for a long time - even before the Clean Air Act of 1979 that's got our industry in its cross hairs now. Yeah, the MoCo probably won't be in the aftermarket exhaust business any longer. Will it keep others out or prevent us from installing our signature systems? Probably not. It sure hasn't in the auto business where engine, exhaust and driveline alterations are commonplace. The EPA out of practicality usually limits its enforcement to gross abuse cases. [smiley=stop.gif]
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I'm not suprised. Anyone who is a member of AMA and reads their members magazine probably was wondering how long it would be before Harley bit the bullet. Harley always had the disclaimer that these products were for "off road racing" and not designed by them for street use. Of course if one were to audit the repair orders of any dealer usually 100% of the installs were made on registered/plated bikes. A issue could be made about this even though in theory the dealer is a independent contractor. It's kind of like Harley is distributing the dope and the dealers are selling it.
Too much at stake for them to continue the promotion of noise.
Take a look at high performance automobiles today that can rip the 0-60 times under 5 seconds and still meet all govt noise standards. They had to adapt and now the crosshairs are on us.
I,for one,am in favor of throaty,powerful sound ,but the obnoxious loud pipes aren't going to cut it. Most cycle magazines that feature custom bikes preach at the altar for more subdued sound but feature the custom bikes with straight pipes!
It' [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif]s coming.....................................................................
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Don't throw away your OEM take off pipes. I fear the day is fast approaching when we'll need them. [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=nervous.gif] [smiley=drink.gif]
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Don't throw away your OEM take off pipes. I fear the day is fast approaching when we'll need them.
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I imagine that is why we don't see a factory bike with a 120"or a 124" since it would be hard to meet EPA regulations.
I agree that H-D can and will meet EPA regulations and still offer performance but I bet it will come at a price. Mainly an engine rediesign such as a V-rod type configuration for the softails and touring bikes.
Our Air-cooled v-twin may be on it's last legs if the government has it's way. >:(
I know if H-D develops a large V-rod type engine it could out-perform what we have now but it won't be the same. Those of you old enough to remember the muscle car era will always remember the sound of a loping big block.The newer cars can out-perform those old cars but they don't have the soul.
Just like the article in Cycle World magazine, the Goldwing out-performs the Harley in speed and power but how many of us will trade for one? ;D
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They'll have to pry my RINEHART's out of my cold, dead hands! There endeth the lesson. Later--HUBBART
(YA!!!!) WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!
MOTORHEAD JIM
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[highlight]I imagine that is why we don't see a factory bike with a 120"or a 124" since it would be hard to meet EPA regulations.[/highlight]
I agree that H-D can and will meet EPA regulations and still offer performance but I bet it will come at a price. Mainly an engine rediesign such as a V-rod type configuration for the softails and touring bikes.
Our Air-cooled v-twin may be on it's last legs if the government has it's way. >:(
I know if H-D develops a large V-rod type engine it could out-perform what we have now but it won't be the same. Those of you old enough to remember the muscle car era will always remember the sound of a loping big block.The newer cars can out-perform those old cars but they don't have the soul.
Just like the article in Cycle World magazine, the Goldwing out-performs the Harley in speed and power but how many of us will trade for one? ;D
I'm not sure that's the case. The number of cubes is not the issue, control of the emissions are what's important. They are fitting the newer bikes with catalysts in the pipes (that's why they weight damn near 4 times the thunderheaders I replaced them with). Remember the EGR value they put on your old 1976+ car that caused an immediate 40% reduction in performance and a pass on the emissions test... I would expect they will also shift away from the air cooled bikes we love and towards the liquid cooled vrod style engine as they have more control over the emissions on them.
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[highlight]They'll have to pry my RINEHART's out of my cold, dead hands!
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So does this mean that the full SE exhaust I took of my scoot will be a collectors item and I can get good money for them on EBAY? Just wondering. Later,Q
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Daddy,
Keep the freakin thing. The day is most certainly coming when they will be making us smog our bikes. An furthermore, the new EPA regulations are going to get tighter, so the MoCo will be forced into a liquid cooled engine (better control over engine temp, emmissions etc.) It is certainly going to be a sad day when the american V-Twin dies)...and don't kid yourself....the day is coming :'( :'(
Now, on the up side. Bikes that were bought before the new EPA regs will be grandfathered to the emmission standards for when the bike was manufactured, so as long as you keep your old pipes and breather you may be able to squeek under.......(as long as you haven't gone nuts with heads and cams)........IMHO
_Beagle
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The big crunch for motorcycle emissions is 2008 for California, and 2010 for the rest of the country. That's when the next reduction is scheduled, and air cooled V-twins are not expected to come close.
Jerry
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Thanks for getting the "official" statement, Jerry. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Motorcycle Emission Standards
STANDARD
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So we looking at Screamin Catalytics or Bub Catalytics it looks like.
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Now, before anyone decides that the end of the world as we know it is upon us, thanks to the EPA, take a look at the attachment. This vehicle meets much tougher emission standards than even the 2010 motorcycle standards. It's amazing what can be done with a little modern technology. And look at the price - not bad considering the price of our SE Harleys.
Jerry
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Nice Color.....and fast too! ::)
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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I finally got the call from the dealer to bring the bike in for their "Cold Start" fix.
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Does this mean that as soon as the 'useful life' of the emission control system is over, you can go to whatever replacement you want to? 18, 640 miles on the odometer and you can put all the performance exhaust systems on the bike you want to? That's nothing! ;) har! spyder
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Does this mean that as soon as the 'useful life' of the emission control system is over, you can go to whatever replacement you want to?
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Yesterday I was told by someone at a NC Dealership that they would no longer be installing Reinhart exhaust and other performance exhaust systems.
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It would appear from the previous posts that some areas are planning to actually enforce the anti-tampering provisions of the law.
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Hmmm. I wonder if that is for bikes made in 2006 or 2006 models also made in 2005 - Hmmm gray area, you gotta play the odds
The NHTSA standards for "motor vehicles" are set by model year not calendar year. If a company intends to take advantage of the preceeding years standard the only way to do it is to build units up to December 31 of that year.
2006 models "all" are covered by any legislation pertaining to the model year.
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... they will only be checking dealers for anti-tampering violations, not owners.
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I for one am concerned that the epa is going to make everything on the road look and sound like a honda. We all need to start ( or continue as the case may be )supporting groups like AMA and ABATE ,etc that are actively trying to work with the epa instead of all of just bitching about what is and what will happen to us. Because the worst will surley happen without a strong presense from the millions of riders and supporters out there.
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I for one am concerned that the epa is going to make everything on the road look and sound like a honda.
I think the EPA is only concerned with emissions. But the MoCo (and many of us) is already talking about noise reduction as well. Check this thread:
http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1140050912
It's going to be a different Harley world in a few years.
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I think EPA stands for E _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ P_ _ _ _ _ _ _ A_ _ _ _ _ _ _ ! :o I'll let you fill in the blanks. If I was to loose my faith I believe this is one of the first places I would go Postal! [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=oops.gif] We have anyone here that works at the post office??? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
[smiley=banana.gif]
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Interesting thread w/ a broad based series of replies. My 2 cents.
The EPA has won, we just don't know or accept it yet. Emssions, they won hands down w/ only a few objections from the motorcycle community. AMA, ABATE, MRF all fought and that battle's over. Best I can tell is that the only victory in the whole thing was the incremental implementation. Many many many motorcyclists failed to raise their voices and the battle's over. Just a matter of time 'til they're pulling pipes or not issuing tags or whatever form of enforcement they pick. Don't say it can't happen. It's happening now in Ohio and it's going to get worse. Noise thing is very close behind. There are several groups/sites that are only dedicated to the reduction of noise. Yep, we're in their crosshairs. Yep, they're funded. 'Tis only a matter of time. Yep the EPA does consider noise and will soon, My Prediction, be on us like white on rice. Heck, even the AMA' and now we know where Harley stands' aren't going to fight the noise fight.
Those that challenge the industry to step up and meet the challenge just like the car industry did; I applaud you and agree. I hope they do. Harley's doing it w/ the Vrods. The japs, well hell, they're already water cooled. Don't know too much about the two strokes but seems they're on the way out as well. Aren't the dirt bike races now allowing the four strokers in at higher displacement just so that the fours can be further developed? By the way, I just can't find where anyone is really thinking that the air cooled will last. I hope I'm wrong.
It's really interesting to see the lies and mis-information that's promulgated on these issues. To compare a motorcycle to a SUV is an insult. The fact that I pollute the air more than a pick-up has really no meaning when there is gazillions of them and several of us. Motorcycles make up such a small percentage of vehicles that it's just stupid to make these statements. Same kinda BS stats that are often thrown out to justify helmet laws, etc. Figures don't lie but liars figure.
So I guess for me, I'll ride what I can as long as I can. I'll dig being ITW and still consider myself blessed for having discovered this passion. But, I'll be just that much more cynical about how things in the good ole' USA are going. I'll keep fighting the fight. I'll hope for motorcyclists to leave their comfort zone and "raise a little hell". And I sure as hell ain't gonna throw away my stock pipes.
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Again, I think some uf you are Pole Vaulting over Ant Hills!
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[highlight]I think the EPA is only concerned with emissions[/highlight].
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Actually, noise is also considered to be environmental pollution, and falls within the purview of the Environmental Protection Agency.
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The EPA is charged with bringing conformity and compliance across all vehicle manufactures whether they build motor boats, farm tractors, pickup trucks or motorcycles. Your legislators have charged them with this responsibility by legislation they created on our behalf. If we don't like it, we need to address it with our representatives and at the polls.
I'd also ask everyone to think back to the early days of catalytic converters on cars and trucks. The rumors on the street had us all in fear we'd never be able to trade or sell a vehicle without a functioning catalytic converter. Well, I've traded in several without the device over the years and never suffered loss of value or faced a fine. Motorcycles will be no different. Now the wise guy running straight pipes and raisin' hell on the streets will still face a noise ordnance citation but that's no different than it is today.
8-)
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It was said earlier here, the guys with the trouble will be the ones that need to get an emissions sticker to renew license plates in the states that require it.