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[TSmith]

I bought the tuner unaware that it marries to your bike and I let a friend connect it to his bike to check his program out and I was wondering if there was anyway to get it changed so I can use it for myself?

[Layin the Pipe]

Pretty sure that you need to have him pay you for that one and buy another one since it is indeed attached to his bike. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[HDGearHead]

Unfortunately you're going to have to purchase another one.  Hopefully its a good friend that is willing to pay you for the one that is now locked to his bike.

[Charlie]

Nope! hes stuck with it!

[Fired00d]

Pretty sure that you need to have him pay you for that one and buy another one since it is indeed attached to his bike. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

X2 I'm thinking the same thing too. To add to that the previous tuner he had may not be worth anything to anybody now because I'm thinking that the ECM can only be married to one tuner and the previous one was wiped out (divorced ) when he hooked up the new one. He needs to pay you for the tuner that is now married to his bike so you can get a new one.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Fullsac Performance]

I have never used the SE product. If its the same as the TTS in this reqard, its not locked to the bike until a tuning calibration is loaded into the ECM.
Even after its locked, you can use TTS all day for scaning codes, data logging ect on as many bikes as you like. I would suggest trying to downloading a calibration
to to the correct bike before you run out and buy another.

Steve

[ultrarider123]

According to HD, my parts buddy and retired HD mechanic, the SE tuner is bike specific.  Once it's "attached" to a bike, it's married to it whether there was any download or not.  Ain't no divorce in the SE tuner arena.  Unlike the TTS that Steve mentions/sells where you can upgrade the TTS to mod more than one scooter, can't be done on the MoCo SE tuner.  What else would you expect from the MoCo....
Get your buddy to buy you one for your ride if you still want to go SE tuner.  Or, better yet, spend a bit less and get him to buy the better TTS unit for you and y'all can compare operational differences.....

[FUNGOUL]

could you switch ecm's with each other if they are the same ecm's???

[grc]

Steve, as a long time F/S customer I'd like to see you begin offering the Super Tuner in addition to the M/T and let the customers decide which is better for them. M/T has a great product which I've purchased from you for 3 previous bikes. The problem for many riders like myself is that so few shops in Canada or the US are capable of using anything but SE tuners. And for those of us who are somewhat computer challenged that means tuning beyond your M/T map is out of the question.    
Jerry    

I kind of doubt that, assuming you're going to a dealership that has a real tuner on the premises.  If they were around when Harley sold the SERT, they were basically tuning with a TTS system (they were the vendor for the original SERT).  I think most of the places that give you that story are just trying to sell people an SEPST.  Real tuners tend to be able to work with everything from a PCIII to a SEPST to a TTS, since they are all mainstream products.

Anyhow, sorry for jumping into the middle of a question directed for Steve.  I'll butt out now.

Jerry

[SE120R]

I agree with Steve, It dosen't marry it self to the bike untill you download a cal. I,ve used hundreds of sepst but I never break the seal till I'm ready to start a tune.
RC

[HDGearHead]

I kind of doubt that, assuming you're going to a dealership that has a real tuner on the premises.  If they were around when Harley sold the SERT, they were basically tuning with a TTS system (they were the vendor for the original SERT).  I think most of the places that give you that story are just trying to sell people an SEPST.  Real tuners tend to be able to work with everything from a PCIII to a SEPST to a TTS, since they are all mainstream products.

Anyhow, sorry for jumping into the middle of a question directed for Steve.  I'll butt out now.

Jerry

Even if the tuner is comfortable with it, the dealer or MOCO may not permit Mastertune to be installed on the computer the dealer uses to tune  I've personally encountered this.

[HDGearHead]

I would suggest trying to downloading a calibration to to the correct bike before you run out and buy another.

Steve

Steve makes a excellent point.  While it may already be locked to your friends bike, it doesn't hurt to try and download a cal to yours to confirm before you buy a replacement.

[Doc 1]

I have never used the SE product. If its the same as the TTS in this reqard, its not locked to the bike until a tuning calibration is loaded into the ECM.
Even after its locked, you can use TTS all day for scaning codes, data logging ect on as many bikes as you like. I would suggest trying to downloading a calibration
to to the correct bike before you run out and buy another.

Steve

Steve the Harley Tuner locks to the bike even if you record data.
Doc

[Fullsac Performance]

Steve, as a long time F/S customer I'd like to see you begin offering the Super Tuner in addition to the M/T and let the customers decide which is better for them. M/T has a great product which I've purchased from you for 3 previous bikes. The problem for many riders like myself is that so few shops in Canada or the US are capable of using anything but SE tuners. And for those of us who are somewhat computer challenged that means tuning beyond your M/T map is out of the question.    
Jerry    

Hi Jerry

As a distributor for TTS, I sell to countless franchised Harley dealers who tune with TTS, SEST, Power Commander Ect. Harley does not require franchised dealers
to operate dynos in their service department, its their choice. And for the ones that do operate dynos, Harley certainly has no control over the software loaded into the techs PC that's tuning the bikes. What the dealer is really saying, is that they only sell SEST, the Harley product. If they say Harley doesn't allow them to tune with another software in the dyno room that they chose to install, well that's an example of salesmanship at its worst. I'm always open to using any competitive product my customers need or request. In competent hands the SE product can tune a bike. But its not product I can purchase under my business name thanks to Harley's dealer protection plan. Maybe I can get one or two off the internet at 20% discount if I'm lucky. Profit? Its just not there. Currently the TTS product is available to everyone and still the best from a tuners standpoint. Even if I could offer SEST and fuel maps allowing you to curcumvent the dealer and his dyno, whats the advantage over TTS at this point?

I appreciate your suggestions!

Steve George
Fullsac Performance

[TSmith]

Thanks for all the replies, I think I will try to download a map just to see, I figure I have nothing to loss. If that doesn't work I'll see if he will replace and learn from my mistake. Bought leason is one you never forget!!

[Simpleman1025]

So would anybody recommend tuning it themselves or have the HD service department do it. I went in for a service, they were trying to sell it to me hard. I am looking at using the "SE Pro Super Tuner" because I have plenty of warranty left and do not want to jeopardize it. I'm leaning towards the "Fullsac X-pipe", of course the service department recommends V&H duals. I like how the stock SE slip-ons look like so maybe replacements baffles from "Fullsac" or real
CFR's. What is the opinion out there?

Just a note that I just noticed this thread so I reported here too.

[grc]

So would anybody recommend tuning it themselves or have the HD service department do it. I went in for a service, they were trying to sell it to me hard. I am looking at using the "SE Pro Super Tuner" because I have plenty of warranty left and do not want to jeopardize it. I'm leaning towards the "Fullsac X-pipe", of course the service department recommends V&H duals. I like how the stock SE slip-ons look like so maybe replacements baffles from "Fullsac" or real
CFR's. What is the opinion out there?

Just a note that I just noticed this thread so I reported here too.

Don't fall for the false sales pitch, the SEPST is just as liable to jeopardize your warranty as any other tuning solution.  If you prefer something from TTS MasterTune or Power Commander (PV) or whomever, then do what you want and don't let a dealer lie to you to sell their product.

If you are interested in the Fullsac pipe and baffles, contact them and ask about the TTS they sell with a map suited for your bike and their pipes.  Many people on the site have gone that way and seem to be more than satisfied.  If you follow directions with the TTS and save the original stock map first, you can easily return the ECM to stock before taking the bike in for service.  That way there is nothing in the ECM they could possibly use to justify screwing with your warranty coverage.  The SEPST does not have that option.  The dealer trying to sell that SEPST so hard is not likely to explain all that to you.

Jerry

[hdaliaconis]

Don't fall for the false sales pitch, the SEPST is just as liable to jeopardize your warranty as any other tuning solution.  If you prefer something from TTS MasterTune or Power Commander (PV) or whomever, then do what you want and don't let a dealer lie to you to sell their product.

If you are interested in the Fullsac pipe and baffles, contact them and ask about the TTS they sell with a map suited for your bike and their pipes.  Many people on the site have gone that way and seem to be more than satisfied.  If you follow directions with the TTS and save the original stock map first, you can easily return the ECM to stock before taking the bike in for service.  That way there is nothing in the ECM they could possibly use to justify screwing with your warranty coverage.  The SEPST does not have that option.  The dealer trying to sell that SEPST so hard is not likely to explain all that to you.

Jerry

 

[110tHunDer]

 
Tell them to read the box the SEPST comes in.  There are warranty implication warnings all over it that are impossible to miss.

[havenolife]

I pretty sure that you can take this ecm and tuner it will work ok

[HDGearHead]

  on the Fullsac X pipe and CVO muffler cores.  Excellent performance, sound, support and price.

Another side benefit is that it maintains the EPA markings on the muffler cans in the event that you reside in a state like CA.

Never ride with a half sac. Insist on Fullsac performance!

Give Steve a call.

[08glide]

I agree with grc. don't let dealer try to power persuade you to their product. example- I bought my 12cvoseuc used with 6k on it, 3 mos old. car dealer sales rep bought it, rode to calif. & back then I bought it. " THE DEALER" put a se tuner on bike & removed the cat.when 1st owner had bike new. now they want to sell me an esp. warranty is all in how the dealer perceives you as "their" customer. they do the work<it's ok. you do the work, or another shop, like steve at ful sac. & they void warranty ( alot out of spite). you're at their mercy (&moco) on warranties. moco can & will void warranty as they see fit.had a couple who had big falling out with local dealer over warranty issue on brakes, on a new trike. dealer says customer changed something. after words were exchanged, dealer ask them to leave property & to never come back on property.

[Fullsac Performance]

As has been already mentioned the Master Tune or the SE Super Tuner could void the factory warranty. However, many dealers tend to look the other way simply because they make money doing warranty work. The SE Street Tuner won't void your warranty but it offers very basic ECM tuning capabilities.  

I've used the x-pipe on two bikes and the Master Tune on three previous bikes. I have the Fullsac 1.75 inch cores and the x-pipe on my present bike. This configuration works very well to increase power and lower engine heat. For reasons I've previously explained in this thread this time I've chosen to go with the SE Super Tuner.

[font=Verdana]Either tuner allows you to save the stock factory map [/font]and both systems are reasonably easy to use for downloading existing maps and in my case some basic tuning. Either system will allow a good mechanic to fine tune your bike on a dyno as long as the shop already has the software added to their computer system that will match your tuner of choice.

Also worth mentioning is that there are several other good tuning systems available and some that I've read about on other recent threads in this forum that seem to be more user friendly than either the M/T or the SE RT for novices like me.

The bottom line is that you do what's best for you.            

Jerry
Are you saying the newest version of the SE Super tuner sold by Harley will allow you to save a copy of the original factory calibration and reload it back into the ECM after custom tuning has been done? When you reload the stock calibration does it leave any trace of evidence that the ECM has been tampered with? I was always told this feature was not available with the Harley product. Just trying to learn and keep up with all this new and constantly changing technology from Harley.

Steve

[Fullsac Performance]

Steve, I've found conflicting information regarding being able to save and reload the factory setting with a SE ST. Below is one suggested way to do it. In addition any HD dealership can reload the factory calibration.  
 
Connect Computer to VCI to the bike.
Open software.
Turn on Main ignition.
Turn on Thumb switch.
Click on Tuning Fork Icon.
There will be 2 tabs at the top of the page Stored Calibration and VCI.
Click on the VCI tab.
When the computer is properly connected to the bike and the ignition and thumb switches are turned on you will see the Load from VCI button activated.
Click on this button and the map that has been captured on the VCI will be downloaded to your computer and you can save it to wherever you store your maps.

If the dealer reloads your stock calibration, doesn't that cancel out the " I didn't modify my bike" story ?

Steve

[Steve Cole]

Steve, I've found conflicting information regarding being able to save and reload the factory setting with a SE ST. Below is one suggested way to do it. In addition any HD dealership can reload the factory calibration.  
 
Connect Computer to VCI to the bike.
Open software.
Turn on Main ignition.
Turn on Thumb switch.
Click on Tuning Fork Icon.
There will be 2 tabs at the top of the page Stored Calibration and VCI.
Click on the VCI tab.
When the computer is properly connected to the bike and the ignition and thumb switches are turned on you will see the Load from VCI button activated.
Click on this button and the map that has been captured on the VCI will be downloaded to your computer and you can save it to wherever you store your maps.

Since this was brought up again we did a little test for you all with the current SEST or SE Street Tuner. It does NOT save the original calibration. It allows you to install one of the canned tunes that it comes with and saves THAT to the VCI. It also writes to the ECM that the ECM has been tuned to non stock calibration ID. Once the ECM has this done (non stock calibration ID) it cannot be taken back out of the ECM. You are also allowed to modify the VE tables. It still limits the amount you can adjust in the VE table to +/- 10 from the original number outside the emissions test area and +/- 4 in the emisssions test area but does give limited adjustment to the VE tables only. Any other adjustments are not allowed.

Hope this clears up what it does and doesn't do.

[Steve Cole]

Really....saving the original map has evolved into a moot point. How many riders put their bike back to 100% stock condition before selling it or go though that before taking it in for warranty work? Most dealers will do warranty work as long as they can actually get access to the tuner that was downloaded to the ECM. If they can't then your stuck with the added cost of transporting a disabled bike to a dealer that can.           

•Featuring improved electronics to enhance reliability and improve communication between the vehicle and the computer.
•The hardware and software in the Super Tuner makes EFI tuning easier with dozens of innovative tuning enhancements.
•Super Tuner is available in 8 languages and is compatible with Windows XP and Vista, Windows 7.
•The Super Tuner includes an ergonomically improved Vehicle Communication Interface (VCI) box.
•The new VCI allows USB connectivity to your PC and contains on board memory for a full 15 minutes of data recording, tracking up to 26 data variables. Data recording is conveniently activated with a push of a button. Cable Kit provides all necessary connections between Motorcycle, VCI, and PC / Laptop.
•The Super Tuner Software is easy to use with a large icon layout, compatible with touchscreen laptops, the ability to work in 4 windows (tables) and enhanced help tools.
•Data and Tuning functions are combined into a single application, ensuring you are only 2 clicks away from any tuning function. With a click of a button, the software automatically connects to the internet and updates to the most current version as well as retrieves the newest calibrations developed by professional Screamin Eagle calibrators.
•Software contains built-in model recognition that filters calibrations, listing those that are applicable to your model. State-of-the art graphing capabilities illustrate tables clearly, highlighting areas for improvement, and are fully scalable and customizable. Additional features include editable calibration text, custom note fields, drag and drop, cut and paste, and printing capability.

For the record we did the test just to confirm what the previous poster stated. As we thought what he had stated was in error.

"•Software contains built-in model recognition that filters calibrations, listing those that are applicable to your model. State-of-the art graphing capabilities illustrate tables clearly, highlighting areas for improvement, and are fully scalable and customizable. Additional features include editable calibration text, custom note fields, drag and drop, cut and paste, and printing capability. "

This is my favorite quote on the Super Tuner as you can put the wrong type calibration into near any bike with it and it gets done all the time. It doesn't stop you from doing it in any way.

[Steve Cole]

Our customer service is second to none, but we are not perfect. That said I provided a test to give a proper answer to what some thought was how something worked, no more no less. The fact that you want to twist that simple test into something it's not, is yours to deal with.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=post;quote=1120148;topic=76990.90;num_replies=96;sesc=ddba0b746e84ab95e4e92afb3a444959



Just because I offer my opinion what makes it any less valid than you offering yours?

[Steve Cole]

Unfounded accusations and misguided assumptions never equate to good customer service. I simply offered my opinion based on personal customer experience. Unless a motorcycle shop already uses your product it is useless if access to the ECM is required for any service work. And saving a factory map with the intend of turning a modified engine back to stock has evolved into something that offers little to no value.         
               

 

Let's start with "Unfounded accusations" I have no idea where you came up with this as we did the test and provided the results so nothing was unfounded in any way.

Next "misguided assumptions" again we did testing nothing more so there was NO assumptions, simple facts presented.

Now you say that our product is "useless to access the ECM" That statement is clearly a bunch of BS, as you clearly have done no testing. Our product only blocks people from reprogramming the ECM, clearing the AFV's and reprogramming the TSSM. Every other function including reading trouble codes works just the same as it did when it was stock. If you need to reprogram the ECM or TSSM if our instructions were followed to start with it can be done with one addition step from stock HD operation, To clear the AFV's simple use our product and it will do it for you but it to can be done with the dealer tools with the one additional step, so we left no one out here. For those that did not bother to follow the directions we also have a way to get you back to stock as well, it does takes more work. So a lot of thought and trouble went into what we did so we could offer service to all of our customers.This is just the type of misguided information that gets going on the internet and then people start to think it's true when it is not the case at all.

If as you say turning a modified engine back to stock has little to no value then why would it be a problem that we prevented someone from removing the modified tune for the modified engine? Since we stop that from happening it's a nice safety feature! So now were down to a TSSM replacement which does happen once in a great while and as I said before we allow that to happen with an extra step involved, so it appears you are the one making misguided assumptions here.

[Steve Cole]

There is no substitute for hands on rider experience with a product such as yours. Quite by accident I discovered a flaw in your system that cost me time and that money I didn't need to spend. When I required service and tuning at a HD dealer the mechanic was unable to help because he could not access the ECM since they only use SE software. And he claimed to have corrupted a new SEST when he tried to download it.

Riders need to be aware of this type of information before laying out hard earned cash for any product. It shouldn't be hard to accept rider feedback regarding your product. As a former three time customer whom you've now chosen to completely alienate, you're the one who loses. Sadly, this has deteriorated from a civilized exchange of customer experiences to just plain silly. And this is one former customer who will never purchase or recommend your product to anyone.

End of conversation. Have a nice day!            

Now the real truth comes out. So the real deal here is your upset because you did not follow directions and are looking at our product as the issue, when it's not. Hands on rider experience is one thing but the fact that you or your mechanic didn't follow the directions doesn't make the product flawed. Accepting feedback is always welcome here but let's not confuse the issue with saying the product is flawed because you  made a mistake and did not follow instructions.

You have swapped stories three times so far in this thread but let me answer your latest claim. Had you done as the directions told you to do making the copy of the original calibration all one needed to do was reload that and the bike would have been back to where they could have used a different tuner on it. One simple little step and all this could have been avoided. I'm sorry that you or your mechanic didn't do that.

[grc]

 

I have a question.  Just how often do you suppose it would be necessary for a dealership, in the course of normal service work, to modify anything in your ECM?  I'll be happy to tell you the answer, almost never.  They can and should access the DTC information whenever they have reason to connect to the data port, otherwise they don't have any business screwing with the calibration file.

If what you were saying way back in the beginning was that you wanted something in your tune tweaked while on the road, then yes that would require you to have your VCI and access to the software, be it on your laptop or at a place that uses TTS.  But once again that brings up a question.  Once you tune the bike properly, why would you stop at just any old dealership and let them screw with your tune?  If the bike was running fine and it suddenly developed a problem, it isn't the tune.  The map didn't suddenly change on it's own.  And it definitely isn't necessary to constantly be tweaking the map.  The ECM does a pretty good job of making it's own corrections based on sensor input without constant tinkering by others.

Anyhow, I have no horse in this race so I really don't care.  It would be nice if we could move on however.

JMHO - Jerry

[Steve Cole]

When all else fails, blame the customer and offer the customer a flawed solution. In order to implement your solution a rider would never be able to leave home without a laptop computer which already has the TTS downloaded and has the original stock map saved on it. And you would also need the TTS interface with you at all times. This is what it would take to implement your solution when service is needed while on the road. So unless a servicing dealership already uses your product (and very few do) a rider would need all of these items with them in order to reload a stock map if service is required while on the road.        

          

It is you who has changed your story three times here not us! When the shoe fits....................

As Jerry has pointed out only to well, you again are flawed in your way of thinking. If you used the solutions that we provided with the product none of your statements are true. Anyone can go to our web site and download and install our software onto ANY Windows based PC. If you had followed the instruction you also could have stored both your tune calibration and original calibration on the very same web site so it can be gotten anytime, so no need to carry them with you. Any normal HD service works just fine with our product installed. I've listed before just what cannot be done and those three things would NEVER be considered normal service. For reprogramming your going to need the VCI but you need that for ANY product not just ours!

http://www.mastertune.net/downloads.htm
http://www.mastertune.net/repositary.php

Now as far as people who use our tuning product every HD dealership world wide that has done ECM tuning has used our products, so your very few comment is a far cry from the truth. I hope your new product does what you want and I hope you are happy with it BUT I wish you would truely stick to the facts about our product and stop with the made-up stories.

[TSmith]

I have never used the SE product. If its the same as the TTS in this reqard, its not locked to the bike until a tuning calibration is loaded into the ECM.
Even after its locked, you can use TTS all day for scaning codes, data logging ect on as many bikes as you like. I would suggest trying to downloading a calibration
to to the correct bike before you run out and buy another.

Steve
Steve you are absolutely correct he did not do a calibration simple read a map that was already downloaded...we hooked the tuner to my bike and did a calibration and it took....I am one happy camper today!!

[TSmith]

 

I bought the tuner unaware that it marries to your bike and I let a friend connect it to his bike to check his program out and I was wondering if there was anyway to get it changed so I can use it for myself? :oops                        Update my buddy and I decided to try the tuner and it worked it took a download

[Fullsac Performance]

I bought the tuner unaware that it marries to your bike and I let a friend connect it to his bike to check his program out and I was wondering if there was anyway to get it changed so I can use it for myself? :oops                        Update my buddy and I decided to try the tuner and it worked it took a download

Awesome! Ride safe!

Steve@fullsac

[Simpleman1025]

WOW, am I the only one that is totally confused now!

[Fullsac Performance]

WOW, am I the only one that is totally confused now!

What the original poster TSmith said is;
Technical information offered in requard to his situation peaked at post #5. 

Happy Easter Everybody!

Steve@fullsac

[sadunbar]

What the original poster TSmith said is;
Technical information offered in requard to his situation peaked at post #5. 

Happy Easter Everybody!

Steve@fullsac

Well said...   

[Fullsac Performance]

Well said...   

Thanks!

[sprite64]

My ECM shot craps while I was in Florida and have a new one installed. I tried to use my super tuner on the bike but it says it was for a different SN ecm. Can the dealership work around this?

[rigidthumper]

No- the tuner locks to the ECM- If the ECM is replaced under warranty, the factory can reset your tuner.

[DCFIREMANN]

My ECM shot craps while I was in Florida and have a new one installed. I tried to use my super tuner on the bike but it says it was for a different SN ecm. Can the dealership work around this?

While it can be reset by the factory/ I seriously doubt they will do anything with it if it the Pro Super Tuner. The tunes do not meet EPA specs.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[bklynrgu]

I read this whole thread and honestly I’m so confused I just bought a brand new se street tuner and was about to buy a full sac head pipe and now I want to sell the tuner and the bike and buy a Honda


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