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Author Topic: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.  (Read 66394 times)

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jimp

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09 CVO SERG


I installed the Cycle Rama 575 cams with FS 1.75" baffles with no cat, and we used the TTS software. Numbers came out power 101.1 and 115.6 torque. It definitely woke the motor up and cooled it down. No more motor noise also at lower RPM, its amazing.



Cycle Rama 575 cams

Intake   Open  15        Close  35      .575 lift   230 duration  100LC   22 degree overlap   105.5 LSA
Ex.      Open   49       Close  7         .560 lift  236 duration   111LC



Blue is stock. 86.9 - 107.3

Red is Cycle Rama 575 cams, Fullsac 1.75 baffles, cat less pipe using Master Tuner. 101.1 - 115.6

Green, we removed the Fullsac's baffles and installed SuperTrapp FatShot Slip-0n's. 103.9 -118.1



« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 07:18:30 AM by jimp »
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StreetDog

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2009, 10:15:43 PM »

Who makes the CR...cams ? My guess would be CycleRama. :confused5:
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HDDOCFL

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2009, 09:25:02 AM »

Jim     Did Wes use the stock pushrods and stock head gasket?  Thanks Doc
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2009, 10:04:35 AM »

Jim     Did Wes use the stock pushrods and stock head gasket?  Thanks Doc


Aftermarket on the PR, stock head gasket.
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HDDOCFL

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2009, 10:08:36 AM »

Thanks.   Doc
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 03:58:03 PM »

« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 09:41:00 AM by jimp »
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Daddy-O

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2009, 11:02:38 AM »

I installed the CR575 cams with FS 1.75" baffles with no cat, and we used the TTS software. Numbers came out power 101.1 and 115.6 torque. It definitely woke the motor up and cooled it down. No more motor noise also at lower RPM, its amazing.

When I get a scanned copy I will post it.

CR575

Intake   Open  15        Close  35      .575 lift   230 duration  100LC   22 degree overlap   105.5 LSA
Ex.      Open   49       Close  7         .560 lift  236 duration   111LC

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Ohio phil

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2009, 06:08:09 AM »

I just installed thunderheader sert 100hp 118tq thats on a 2009 serg
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StreetDog

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 10:04:46 PM »

Did you use the 575 cams?
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Ohio phil

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2009, 05:59:57 AM »

Kingdog
Mine is stock 255 cams, C-YA Phil
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 08:40:19 AM »

I just installed thunderheader sert 100hp 118tq thats on a 2009 serg


post the chart  :worthless:
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jfh

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2009, 10:15:03 AM »

I just installed thunderheader sert 100hp 118tq thats on a 2009 serg

Now that's a happy dyno!  ;)
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 05:37:20 PM »

Now that's a happy dyno!  ;)


I wanted to see his torque curve.
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2009, 06:56:26 PM »

I dont think those numbers are far off.My 2010 fatbob v&h big shots  with big city baffels TTS tuner 99 horse 114 torque
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2009, 08:27:09 AM »

Before and after.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 09:41:49 AM by jimp »
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HD Street Performance

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2009, 10:02:16 AM »

Makes sense to me but I look at dynos more at the shape and amount of torque in the riding areas not actual numbers. This run is not in SAE and that correction would change the numbers but nonetheless I am sure it is fun to ride. Proves that if you use heads that flow reasonably well, a cam with very short overlap, a good tune, and a pipe that is one of the few that actually scavenges you can have decent results.
FWIW I am not a big fan of the pipe but it does work as do Cycle Shacks on the 2 into 2 stock softail pipes.
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2009, 10:35:56 AM »

Wes gave me grief over using the stock pipes with the Full Sac 1.75 baffles, and he told I could make a larger gain with a quality pipe, but I don't want the noise.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2009, 10:49:08 AM »

Then get Supertrap 2 into 1 and be done with it
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2009, 10:57:00 AM »

That would be my choice, thats what I had on my 05 SEEG and it was a perfomer. But having that empty hole in the Left bag would bug me.


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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2009, 10:58:37 AM »

Well best compromise then is the trap slip-ons
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2009, 04:51:44 PM »

Jimp,

On your dyno sheet, what was the before configuration?  Stock or modified?  Was it just the cam change and everything else the same?

Charles
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2009, 05:09:55 PM »

Well best compromise then is the trap slip-ons

Agree with Deweyheads, I really like the Supertrapp Supermeg 2:1, however on my 2010 ULTRA Limited I am going with the stock header pipe with the CAT removed by Fullsac and the Supertrapp Fatshots Slip On disc adjustable Mufflers.

geezerglide
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2009, 05:35:46 PM »

Jimp,

On your dyno sheet, what was the before configuration?  Stock or modified?  Was it just the cam change and everything else the same?

Charles



Before was stock, but like I said, Wes told me my exhaust is holding back potential. Riding the bike is a dream compared to stock, the torque curve is were I ride and its very smooth without the obnoxious noise.
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2009, 04:31:40 PM »

I found a set of SuperTrapps to try, if the person comes threw hint hint.
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2009, 08:03:27 PM »

I wonder how this recipe would work out on an 07 SEUC since the 07 has a smaller TB?
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 08:49:20 PM »



Before was stock, but like I said, Wes told me my exhaust is holding back potential. Riding the bike is a dream compared to stock, the torque curve is were I ride and its very smooth without the obnoxious noise.

Exactly, you could be higher numbers, but what would it do to your numbers where you spend 75% of your time?
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2009, 03:47:43 PM »

Exactly, you could be higher numbers, but what would it do to your numbers where you spend 75% of your time?


Believe me, that will be looked at very close. I would like to see the torque pick up in the 2500 RPM range to over 110.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2009, 04:34:39 PM »

With the stock heads you need a short cam and compression plus a good 2 into 1 to get that. Fixing the 93% intake throat improves low to mid lift flow and the torque rises as a result.
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2009, 04:53:22 PM »

With the stock heads you need a short cam and compression plus a good 2 into 1 to get that. Fixing the 93% intake throat improves low to mid lift flow and the torque rises as a result.

Its only got 2 degrees more overlap than the Andrew 26, the intake center line is 2 degrees less than a 26. How much shorter do you want to go on a 110 cu in motor?


« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 07:27:47 PM by jimp »
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HD Street Performance

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2009, 11:12:57 PM »

Woods 5-6 would be my choice but very similar to the CR cam. There is more going on that the timing card shows with the cams, we don't know what happens from .053 to max lift IE what is the duration at .200 .300 ETC and are the lobes symetrical? My choice would be the Woods 5-6 for the torque mongers. It will provide all the SE255 will but be there for the finish.
The pipe and tune will heve a big influence on the mass amount of torque in the riding envelope not just the peak.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 11:21:11 PM by Deweysheads »
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2009, 07:32:16 AM »

I have run Supertrapps on all my bikes in the past with great results, but I am like Jimp do not want to look at the empty left side hole. I cannot find the Super trapp in 4" slip ons, does anyone know if they make one .?  Thanks Doc
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2009, 07:49:28 AM »

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HDDOCFL

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2009, 08:24:32 AM »

Jimp thanks, looks like they have a flair end.  Did you get to try a set yet?  Doc
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2009, 09:02:53 AM »

Jimp thanks, looks like they have a flair end.  Did you get to try a set yet?  Doc


The guy decided to keep them, so Wes is getting me a new set.
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2009, 10:44:02 AM »

Jim when you get them I would like to see them amd hear them, I can meet you somewhere.  Doc
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2009, 08:13:37 PM »

SuperTrapps came in today, so I will have a dyno sheet up soon comparing them to the Fullsac's.
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2009, 09:03:21 AM »

SuperTrapps came in today, so I will have a dyno sheet up soon comparing them to the Fullsac's.



OK  Waiting here JIM.  Hope it helps.  Doc
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2009, 08:41:24 PM »

Now that's a happy dyno!  ;)

you got that  right  ..   but it makes people think they got a deal. sometimes!!
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2009, 08:24:07 PM »



OK  Waiting here JIM.  Hope it helps.  Doc


Wes has been to busy to get me in, hopefully this week.
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2009, 12:38:04 PM »

Jim any results yet?   Doc
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2009, 06:34:03 PM »

Jim any results yet?   Doc


Should have it done tomorrow.
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2009, 07:13:36 AM »

Jim anything Yet?
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2009, 09:13:08 AM »

I installed the CR575 cams with FS 1.75" baffles with no cat, and we used the TTS software. Numbers came out power 101.1 and 115.6 torque. It definitely woke the motor up and cooled it down. No more motor noise also at lower RPM, its amazing.



CR575

Intake   Open  15        Close  35      .575 lift   230 duration  100LC   22 degree overlap   105.5 LSA
Ex.      Open   49       Close  7         .560 lift  236 duration   111LC



Red is stock

Blue is CR 575 cams, Fullsac 1.75 baffles, cat less pipe using Master Tuner.



Is this with stock heads?

Can you get him to print you out a copy that's SAE corrected?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 09:15:17 AM by JCZ »
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2009, 02:54:27 PM »

Is this with stock heads?

Can you get him to print you out a copy that's SAE corrected?



Yes stock heads.

Monday I will ask him for the SAE.
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2009, 03:01:22 PM »

Replacing the Fullsacs with the SuperTrapp slip-on's netted 104.0 HP and 118.3 Torque. I should have the dyno sheet later.


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Zig

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I am in touch with Wes at CycleRama, and he will be installing the TTS software with a custom  map on my '10 SE Ultra on Wednesday.
I also have a D&D Fatcat 2/1, along with the CR 575 cams being installed at the same time.
Should be interesting to see the difference the 2/1 makes verses the 'catless' version of stock.
I will post as soon as possible with the results  :2vrolijk_21:
Zig
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2009, 07:15:59 PM »

Replacing the Fullsacs with the SuperTrapp slip-on's netted 104.0 HP and 118.3 Torque. I should have the dyno sheet later.




SuperTrapp Fatshotz on my 2010 ULTRA Limited 103". HP 99.4 & 104.9 TQ, along with Andrews 54 H cams, mild headwork, HD SEST amd HD Ventilator AC.
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Pic of the Supertrapp
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Pic of the SuperTrapp from the side
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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2009, 08:23:54 PM »


Yes stock heads.

Monday I will ask him for the SAE.

jimp:

Am really impressed with the Torque your producing with stock heads!  Over 100ft/lbs. at 2200-2300rpm and still carrying it out to ~5300!  Whew!

Am curious if this is a DJ250I Dyno, and is this dyno using the latest WinPep7 Software?

Thanks for sharing with the community!

 :2vrolijk_21:
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jimp

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2009, 08:51:55 AM »

jimp:

Am really impressed with the Torque your producing with stock heads!  Over 100ft/lbs. at 2200-2300rpm and still carrying it out to ~5300!  Whew!

Am curious if this is a DJ250I Dyno, and is this dyno using the latest WinPep7 Software?

Thanks for sharing with the community!

 :2vrolijk_21:


Yes its a 250I with the latest software.


jim
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jimp

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I am in touch with Wes at CycleRama, and he will be installing the TTS software with a custom  map on my '10 SE Ultra on Wednesday.
I also have a D&D Fatcat 2/1, along with the CR 575 cams being installed at the same time.
Should be interesting to see the difference the 2/1 makes verses the 'catless' version of stock.
I will post as soon as possible with the results  :2vrolijk_21:
Zig


I am intersted to see the difference the 2/1 makes, since we have the same cams.
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Jim it looks like the super trapps made only a little difference, would you do it again?   Doc
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I,ll LYK.  Jim.     Z
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jimp

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Jim it looks like the super trapps made only a little difference, would you do it again?   Doc


I need to ride it, and then I will know.
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jimp

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Pic of the Supertrapp


I like the looks and the sound of the Supertrapps.
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jimp

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I,ll LYK.  Jim.     Z


When are you picking it up?
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Tommorrow afternoon .  Should B a NEW bike...
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Tommorrow afternoon .  Should B a NEW bike...


Mine was. ;D
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Jim if you can get a chance to take a pic of the trapps from the rear of the bike I would like to see how they fill in the bags.  Thanks Doc
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jimp

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Jim if you can get a chance to take a pic of the trapps from the rear of the bike I would like to see how they fill in the bags.  Thanks Doc


I haven't seen it yet, but my interest is high on your question.
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Zig

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    • CVO1: FLHTCUSE5 Burnt Amber/Citrus CR575 cams, K&N HF D&D Fatcats, custom map courtesy of Cycle-Rama.com
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Well, the work's done.  I went from 83.9/108            to          102.2/123.2 torque.                  Upgrades include K &  N  high flow intake, D&D Fatcat 2/1 chrome, and the CR 575 cams.
The sound is Swu-eet!   Seat of the  pants power is really noticable.   Very happy overall.
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HDDOCFL

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Thanks Jim.   Looks Good. Fills in good.    Doc
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HDDOCFL

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Well, the work's done.  I went from 83.9/108            to          102.2/123.2 torque.                  Upgrades include K &  N  high flow intake, D&D Fatcat 2/1 chrome, and the CR 575 cams.
The sound is Swu-eet!   Seat of the  pants power is really noticable.   Very happy overall.




Zigg looks like the 2-1 really helped. More hp and tq, over Jims.. Doc
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 08:32:44 AM by HDDOCFL »
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HDDOCFL

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Jim have you noticed any more engine noise with the CR cam?   Thanks Doc
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jimp

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Jim have you noticed any more engine noise with the CR cam?   Thanks Doc


My motor has no noise now compared to before.
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HDDOCFL

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Thanks Jim     My engine is queit now did not want things to change, Will be seeing Wes soon.  Thanks Doc
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harleyguynv

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Did you guys change to .030 head gaskets or just bolt in the CR 575 cams? It also looks like you left the heads stock, right? The numbers are compareable or better than the Andrews 54's.  I've got an 07 SEUC that I would like to just do a bolt in and not disturb the cylinders or heads at this time. I'm running a SEAC, stock headers with Fuel Moto's Jackpot Power slip ons, power commander and my numbers are 96.5 hp-113 tq SAE with the 255's. I'm wondering if the numbers for an 07 would be comperable to yours?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 09:31:37 AM by harleyguynv »
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jimp

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Did you guys change to .030 head gaskets or just bolt in the CR 575 cams? It also looks like you left the heads stock, right? The numbers are compareable or better than the Andrews 54's.  I've got an 07 SEUC that I would like to just do a bolt in and not disturb the cylinders or heads at this time. I'm running a SEAC, stock headers with Fuel Moto's Jackpot Power slip ons, power commander and my numbers are 96.5 hp-113 tq SAE with the 255's. I'm wondering if the numbers for an 07 would be comperable to yours?


No head work on mine or Ziggs bike, we both used the adjustable push rod's though. I Talked to Wes and he thinks he has a dyno chart on a 07 with the 575 cam, I will post it for you.
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harleyguynv

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Ok, That would be great. You did not pull the heads and install the thinner gaskets? I bolted in some Andrews 54's and did not touch the heads or gaskets and my numbers went down considerably from the 255's. I couldn't believe it so I put the 255's back in. I know the 54's works well if you use the .030 gaskets, Call me paranoid if you want but I am on my 2nd motor due to leaking issues and I don't want to disturb the cylinders, at this point.  :nixweiss:
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jimp

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Ok, That would be great. You did not pull the heads and install the thinner gaskets? I bolted in some Andrews 54's and did not touch the heads or gaskets and my numbers went down considerably from the 255's. I couldn't believe it so I put the 255's back in. I know the 54's works well if you use the .030 gaskets, Call me paranoid if you want but I am on my 2nd motor due to leaking issues and I don't want to disturb the cylinders, at this point.  :nixweiss:


Heads were not pulled, no thinner gasket, if I pull the heads I will get serious.
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Zig

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"Did you guys change to .030 head gaskets or just bolt in the CR 575 cams? "
Did not break the head at all. Stock gasket, just used full complement needles on the cams, put in the CR575, Hi FLo K&N and DnD FatCats.  Torque peaks around 35-3600, and power around 5100.  No additional valve train noise that I notice, although the Fat Cats are considerably more beefy sounding than stock!   Like a NEW BIKE! OH< BTW, no longer cooking my right leg either!
Z
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jimp

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"Did you guys change to .030 head gaskets or just bolt in the CR 575 cams? "
Did not break the head at all. Stock gasket, just used full complement needles on the cams, put in the CR575, Hi FLo K&N and DnD FatCats.  Torque peaks around 35-3600, and power around 5100.  No additional valve train noise that I notice, although the Fat Cats are considerably more beefy sounding than stock!   Like a NEW BIKE! OH< BTW, no longer cooking my right leg either!
Z


Zig, how are you liking the new power after Two weeks?
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Zig

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It really floats my boat! When I first got rid of my 113 CI Yamaha (a stump puller by the way)  I was a little dissapointed in the lack of power in the SE.  Now after the mod, I would BLOW IT AWAY!  No regrets at all.   Best thing is, it starts making power right away-down low.  All good.
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harleyguynv

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Jimp, I was wondering if you ever found a syno for an 07?
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jimp

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Jimp, I was wondering if you ever found a syno for an 07?


I will remind Wes to look for them.
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jimp

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It really floats my boat! When I first got rid of my 113 CI Yamaha (a stump puller by the way)  I was a little dissapointed in the lack of power in the SE.  Now after the mod, I would BLOW IT AWAY!  No regrets at all.   Best thing is, it starts making power right away-down low.  All good.

Did you get a copy of your chart?
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Zig

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I Did, but just the paper version. Wes said he would e mail me a copy but I haven't heard from him.
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Zig

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Ok Jim,
Here is the chart with before and after the C R 575.


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HD Street Performance

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OK so take this bike and another with higher compression and a longer cam but higher peak numbers. Which will be more fun to ride? Well my put would be the one that has the highest aggregate torque in the range we commonly ride. BTW looks like a very fun ride and the numbers are not SAE but still it is clear that this bike gets with the program.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 04:40:25 PM by Deweysheads »
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jimp

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Ok Jim,
Here is the chart with before and after the C R 575.




Zig, that looks good.
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Ohio phil

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Sorry trying to post
C-YA Ohio Phil
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happyman

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Re: CR575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2010, 11:11:53 AM »

With the stock heads you need a short cam and compression plus a good 2 into 1 to get that. Fixing the 93% intake throat improves low to mid lift flow and the torque rises as a result.

This  cam will have a bit more static compression that the  woods 5-6                                                                   may be a good canidate for my 103, if indeed it don't have a lot of valeve train noise which is something i cannot tolerate.
thanks
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HD Street Performance

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I have over a dozen working so far with your setup and they are relatively quiet (close to or equal to stock) but nobody would guarantee that
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happyman

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I have over a dozen working so far with your setup and they are relatively quiet (close to or equal to stock) but nobody would guarantee that

are you referring to the 5-6  or the  cycle  rama 575?  for quite operation or close to it?
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HD Street Performance

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No experience CR only with the 5-6 Wood cam
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 01:48:01 PM by Deweysheads »
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happyman

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No experience with the 5-6 only the Wood cam

Don, the  5-6 is a wooods cam!
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HD Street Performance

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OK you win
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happyman

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OK you win


nothing to win.   just trying to confirm what is said.
looking for good info and thats it.
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HD Street Performance

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You have it. I have covered this well and voiced my opinion. Now others can chime in.
If you have a minute look at the difference in weight of the valves when comparing cams and noise. that is what I mean by motor configuration. This fact and the valvespring used is critical to noise levels. Rowe, Kibblewhite, Ferrea, and others list the weights. Light valves with lower spring pressures and light retainers generally run quieter. Or should I say there is a higher probability of them running quieter. There are far too many factors including installation techniques, stem protrusion, seat being concentric, guide to stem clearance, and many others to predict noise levels. I had a complaint once that the TW26 Andrews cam was noisy as an example, but I would not suggest this is normal.
I have done several with the 103" 07up and stock heads that I have only Blueprinted so I know what to expect. Lots of torque over a wide band and decent hp, low noise level.
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happyman

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You have it. I have covered this well and voiced my opinion. Now others can chime in.
If you have a minute look at the difference in weight of the valves when comparing cams and noise. that is what I mean by motor configuration. This fact and the valvespring used is critical to noise levels. Rowe, Kibblewhite, Ferrea, and others list the weights. Light valves with lower spring pressures and light retainers generally run quieter. Or should I say there is a higher probability of them running quieter. There are far too many factors including installation techniques, stem protrusion, seat being concentric, guide to stem clearance, and many others to predict noise levels. I had a complaint once that the TW26 Andrews cam was noisy as an example, but I would not suggest this is normal.
I have done several with the 103" 07up and stock heads that I have only Blueprinted so I know what to expect. Lots of torque over a wide band and decent hp, low noise level.

very good.  So if i were to just install the 5-6 in  the 103", i expect a quite valve train?
Just to be clear Don, am not trying to give you a hard time at all. or get into a match withy you.not what i do. 
i realize lots of people thrive on harrasing people, i don't do it nor do i expect it. seems on a forum at times things seem to get taken out of context.. i for one appreciate the info you have to share.
hope you realize this . 
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HD Street Performance

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I know and how could I say it will run quiet with a clear conscious? Some do and some don't. Not just a Woods cam argument. IME when I sold them they were quiet in that configuration. I did the heads though and I set them up my way. Nothing special or unique to my methods just what any good head shop would do.
What somebody else does and even the install comes into play. What pushrods are used? Are the boxes and supports centered, Will the side play and rocker bushing clearance be checked? What about the rockers stock?? Rollers? There are so many factors that are so far out of my control I would be a fool to promise anything.
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johnsachs

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"Two wrongs don't make a right"
Weak springs + high lift fast cams = premature valve seat wear. :'(
John
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happyman

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I know and how could I say it will run quiet with a clear conscious? Some do and some don't. Not just a Woods cam argument. IME when I sold them they were quiet in that configuration. I did the heads though and I set them up my way. Nothing special or unique to my methods just what any good head shop would do.
What somebody else does and even the install comes into play. What pushrods are used? Are the boxes and supports centered, Will the side play and rocker bushing clearance be checked? What about the rockers stock?? Rollers? There are so many factors that are so far out of my control I would be a fool to promise anything.

now back to the question..
will they be quiet if that is all that is done?   the  rest is elementary   
perhaps you can quiet them down by less seat preasure, or some lifter or another, if they are all in good shape it should make no differance. what i am asking once again is simple.   
lots of people can install a cam and get  things adjusted and centered..   
 
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happyman

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"Two wrongs don't make a right"
Weak springs + high lift fast cams = premature valve seat wear. :'(
John

John, perhaps you could shed a little light on the subject? have to believe you have done  a woods 5-6 a time or two?  what is your experiance with the cam.will the stock valve train on the 2010 ultra LTD be ok? i know the 9-6 was noisey, people could hear me coming three blocks away. it was properly installed.  just the nature of the beast.  many instances of this with differant cams not just woods either.
all i want to do is purchase one cam.
Thanks
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johnsachs

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John, perhaps you could shed a little light on the subject? have to believe you have done  a woods 5-6 a time or two?  what is your experience with the cam.will the stock valve train on the 2010 ultra LTD be ok? i know the 9-6 was noisy, people could hear me coming three blocks away. it was properly installed.  just the nature of the beast.  many instances of this with differant cams not just woods either.
all i want to do is purchase one cam.
Thanks
I've done 2 builds,for insistent customers,using those cams(5-6).I always qualify it by telling them that they WILL be noisy.THEY ARE............... :nixweiss:
Valve spring wise,I use 175 # on the seat with them.IMO,you'll still see premature valve and seat wear.Remember,even the best valve springs lose tension from work.
John
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happyman

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I've done 2 builds,for insistent customers,using those cams(5-6).I always qualify it by telling them that they WILL be noisy.THEY ARE............... :nixweiss:
Valve spring wise,I use 175 # on the seat with them.IMO,you'll still see premature valve and seat wear.Remember,even the best valve springs lose tension from work.
John

[/quote

thanks for the reply, appreciate it. is there a cam that has the higher lift, and early intake close that can pull well dow low  in these big heavy baggers? i have a couple cams laying arond here. one i will not use in my 103" its the  SE 255, the other i was planning on using is the crane 300-2
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HD Street Performance

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The grunt down low comes from dynamic cylinder pressure. The earlier intake close and or fast ramp and high lift cams help accomplish that. Other later close cams can be crutched with added compression to act like this at lower speed although their true sweet spot is higher. There are trade offs and we can always pull the junk out to prove a point. Drop the bomb and then move on. But what is missing is more data. If valve seat life is shortened, how much? Is this a trade-off I am willing to make? So there are logical ways to choose a cam that suits the need. If noise is the focus, the most quiet I have installed are Wild Things cams as a whole, all of them. Andrews, S&S, SE most grinds are not noisy typically. That said the ones that get called on the carpet for noise the most, Woods, vary grind to grind, not all of them are that bad. In my experience as I stated before with stock valve springs, beehives, the TW5-6 runs quiet. I do shim the springs for a little added pressure but they have been used without that. I have a few of these here on daily riden motorcycles and they have in excess of 10k miles no issues yet. As always I respect Johns opinion but we haven't seen any problems as of yet. Time will tell. By the way the TW5-6 is a cam routinely used by our main performance dealer in the northwest, Latus Harley Davidson, for many of their late model builds and they do use stock springs in some cases depending on the head package used.
Side note, I am not a Woods troll. I would and do use and sell many other grinds. I also recommend many I don't sell. This one just fits the bill in this case.
Back to the original post the CR575, looks very similar and would likely perform well in the 103" LTD, but I have no experience with those. I don't know about the ramps or valve spring requirements
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happyman

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will just have to  pick a cam that is  more often than not a performer  where we ride and lacking noise.   heck even the 255 has more nosie than i care for.  when the temp goes up around  here it then gets worse.  going to e-bay that cam off.  not much out there on the new  S&S cams with all the moving parts..     
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I have five TW*G builds running. Two 5's. Two 6H's. One 8. Both My Brothers' -5 bagger and his wifes' -5 bagger are both stock beehive at 145lbs (shimmed), and quiet. My Cousins' -6H bagger at 155#'s is quiet, but my choppers 113 w/-6H's @ 175# isn't. My 113 137ftlb SG w/-8's @ 160# beehives is quiet.  I am going to build my '03 95" Ultra w/5's, and another 5 build for another cousin, both with stock beehives and 06up heads.  They could be noisy, but they sure make great power and torque. Some of these builds are close to 20k miles but none with very high miles yet.
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HD Street Performance

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the 255 has more nosie than i care for

So once again, in what? with what valves? pushrods?, and on and on.

The cam does not act alone it is part of a system.
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happyman

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was a stock 07 CVO that came with that cam.    understand about the install.   and its not a cure all no matter what.. just the way it is. not real bad but i did not like other things about the cam regardless..  just not a cam i like for two up and in the hot weather  ya have a bike that will ping. but then othe 07 bike was a differant animal  with gearing too. that compounds the issues of ping.
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HD Street Performance

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2.08 and 1.62 valves with 5/16" stems, 175# springs from the factory.
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happyman

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ya  never checked them out.   i suppose the new 103 has bout the same spring pressure too.The stock cam in these 10's are real quite. doggy performace but quite  still like the way they feel compared to the 255.     part of that is the gearing too.
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HD Street Performance

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 i suppose the new 103 has bout the same spring pressure too.

Nope that has been my point all along
7mm valves are much smaller and lighter. They weigh about the same as a hollow stem same sized 5/16" valve. Your 103" has beehive springs that are ~135# on the seat.
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trahog

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Happyman i have a v-rod i'll sell you no noise at all,Just giving you some chit call me some time ,going to bike week next month
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johnsachs

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"Two wrongs don't make a right"
Weak springs + high lift fast cams = premature valve seat wear. :'(
John
Had a shop drop off a set of heads,that were run with hi-lift fast cams.I need to replace 2 cracked intake seats(2/3 around,both moved as well),and 1 exhaust seat that moved.
From what I could tell,it looks like quality(Crane silver keeper Springs + .030" shims on intake,springs,no shims exhaust).One good exhaust was in at 2.010".Can't tell exact intake protrusion(est. 2.010"the same).Looks like valve job is Sunnen VGS radius cutters,with a generous(width)top angle.Spring at 1.790" = 135 lbs.
I'm NOT KNOCKING any specific cam/s,or even ones discussed on these forms.
I see stuff on a Spintron that makes me pee myself.
Also,it's easy to miss a shift,spin a tire,etc.(we've all done it),and have the same thing happen.
I couldn't get the pictures to come out any better.I still think you can see the problems.
John
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The second picture.
John
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happyman

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wow  that is a beating
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jimp

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 With the seat material of today's valve seats and correct ratio of valve size to seat diameter Impact failure is non existent
 
These cams have advance lobe profiles. Shorter set timing with a very slow initial opening
  then ramp up fast to stop reversion, then a slow closing to build more port velocity
  and better cylinder fill. This also makes its easier on the valve train components,
  and gives them a very broad range of operational efficiency.
 
The Spec's are
 
CR575
Intake       open  15                close    35        .575 lift     100LC   22 overlap
Ex.           open  49                close    7          .560 lift     111LC     105.5 LSA
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happyman

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looks like a cam that may be ok  for a bagger. what kind of compression does this cam like? the differant lift on the exhaust catches my eye also. have another cam to look at now.
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jimp

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This was emailed to me, it was found on a forum.


Quote
I have owned a 2007, 08, 09 & now a 2010LTD (all Ultras) & I tried various cams (26s,54s,37s,557s,570s,55s,) headwork & pipes. Of all the cams, the 26s were the friendliest with the 54s doing a pretty good job but needed headwork & Increased compression. After spending lots of $$$ & searching for the perfect built, I am there. My research after talking to Mike Stegman (Latus HD) concerning the stroker motors, taller gearing with the six speeds, I ended with up some good answers. He said the perfect cam for the heavy 07 & up touring bike would be a high lift, short duration cam. Some like the SE255s but I think it still causes the motor to run a little to hot. Mike agreed. Mike said to look for a cam kinda like the 26s but hi lift. I also wanted a bolt in for my 2010 LTD with the 103.I did not want to build the engine, no increased comp, no headwork, no bottom end worries.............Found it!!!!!  Wes Brown at Cycle-Rama has designed a cam for my bike. It should also work well in a 96.The specs are
  as follows:.575 lift(intake) .560 lift(exhaust)  15/35 (in) 49/7 (ex)  230-236 duration    100-111   105.5 LSA
I have not had it tuned yet. I will tell you with only a K&N,D&D Boss & a canned map from my TTS that, It pulls harder down low & lower than any previous build.My 09/103 with R&R cnc heads, Supertrapp 2:1,cp pistons did run very well. But it did not have the off idle power this bike has.
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happyman

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This was emailed to me, it was found on a forum.



can you tell me what the  ccp is on your 103?    that is something i would like to know..
you did say you just bolt yours in no hreadwork or HG to alter anything  just a stock motor with a cam install.
Thanks
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harleyguynv

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After talking to Wes at Cycle Rama I bought a set of 575's and installed them today. I did not touch the heads, just a straight bolt in. I am going to take her out tomorrow and see how it feels with seat of the pants dyno. From what I can tell at this point they are less noisy than the 255's.  :2vrolijk_21:
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 10:20:41 PM by harleyguynv »
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jimp

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #115 on: February 08, 2010, 07:17:44 PM »

Wes sent me a email today, that he has bored out a stock throttle body to 54mm to try on the bike. As soon as its installed I will post a updated dyno chart.
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HDDOCFL

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #116 on: February 09, 2010, 07:19:15 AM »

JIM !     Hope all goes well with this upgrade.    Doc
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HDDOCFL

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #117 on: February 19, 2010, 09:28:32 AM »

Wes sent me a email today, that he has bored out a stock throttle body to 54mm to try on the bike. As soon as its installed I will post a updated dyno chart.




Jim you get this intake on and run?   Doc
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jimp

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #118 on: February 20, 2010, 08:38:20 PM »




Jim you get this intake on and run?   Doc


 Wes got backed up with work, so I am on the back burner.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 09:09:04 PM by jimp »
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FLTRI

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #119 on: February 21, 2010, 09:53:35 PM »

Those numbers look about right after a good tune.
Bob
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HDDOCFL

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #120 on: November 26, 2010, 07:29:16 AM »

Jim!  Whats up? How do you like the CR 575 no that its all finished up.  Thanks Doc
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happyman

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #121 on: November 26, 2010, 07:40:49 AM »

09 CVO SERG


I installed the Cycle Rama 575 cams with FS 1.75" baffles with no cat, and we used the TTS software. Numbers came out power 101.1 and 115.6 torque. It definitely woke the motor up and cooled it down. No more motor noise also at lower RPM, its amazing.



Cycle Rama 575 cams

Intake   Open  15        Close  35      .575 lift   230 duration  100LC   22 degree overlap   105.5 LSA
Ex.      Open   49       Close  7         .560 lift  236 duration   111LC



Blue is stock. 86.9 - 107.3

Red is Cycle Rama 575 cams, Fullsac 1.75 baffles, cat less pipe using Master Tuner. 101.1 - 115.6

Green, we removed the Fullsac's baffles and installed SuperTrapp FatShot Slip-0n's. 103.9 -118.1




could you tell me what end cap  and how many discs you run with the  fatshots? thanks
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HDDOCFL

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #122 on: November 26, 2010, 08:51:49 AM »

I know he had a closed end cap the last time I seen him about 2 months ago.  Doc
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happyman

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #123 on: November 26, 2010, 02:41:28 PM »

I know he had a closed end cap the last time I seen him about 2 months ago.  Doc

 am curious what he rubn for end caps for sure
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jimp

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #124 on: November 27, 2010, 05:45:43 AM »

am curious what he rubn for end caps for sure

I have the closed end caps like Doc said, with the full set of disc's.
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happyman

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #125 on: November 27, 2010, 10:41:59 AM »

I have the closed end caps like Doc said, with the full set of disc's.

so the number  of discs is 10 per side with closed end cap if i am reading this correct???
thanks
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jimp

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #126 on: November 28, 2010, 06:51:15 AM »

so the number  of discs is 10 per side with closed end cap if i am reading this correct???
thanks

I will double check the number of disc.
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txhawg

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2010, 11:47:23 PM »

I will double check the number of disc.

I am very interested in the number of discs as well.  This is good stuff!  You've got yourself a fun looking ride there. 
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jimp

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #128 on: November 30, 2010, 02:30:57 PM »

I count Sixteen.




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HDDOCFL

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #129 on: December 01, 2010, 07:38:09 AM »

Jim you stop riding? those discs look pretty clean.  LOL  Doc
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georgw221

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #130 on: December 05, 2010, 01:53:42 PM »

Two Questions,

1.Has anyone installed a CR-575 in a 96"

2.If they used the Supertrapp Fatshots or SE Fatshotz ,,, How many discs did you use?
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Herko

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #131 on: December 05, 2010, 02:50:50 PM »

"1.Has anyone installed a CR-575 in a 96" "

I can answer question 1.
See attached: (2010 96 inch bike, heads never removed).


« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 02:58:06 PM by Herko »
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Unbalanced

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #132 on: December 05, 2010, 03:58:03 PM »

Herko,

Any feedback to the top end noise of the CR 575 vs. say one of the other cams that play in this real like Wood 555, Andrews 54, Zippers 575 etc ?
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Herko

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #133 on: December 05, 2010, 05:22:26 PM »

Herko,

Any feedback to the top end noise of the CR 575 vs. say one of the other cams that play in this real like Wood 555, Andrews 54, Zippers 575 etc ?

The CR-575's are consistently quiet. Ramp speeds biased for quiet operation was part of the design criteria.
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Unbalanced

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #134 on: December 05, 2010, 06:29:03 PM »

Herko one other question is what was the CCP of this 96 motor, I am asking because we are considering picking up a 2011 Limited Ultra.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 12:26:31 PM by Unbalanced »
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Herko

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #135 on: December 06, 2010, 10:25:45 AM »

Herko one other question is what was the CCP of this 96 motor, I am asking as we just picked up a 2011 Limited Ultra that I am considering this cam for it.

Not sure. No actual CCP check done on this particular bike. I.e. calc's would show in the mid to low 170's.
IMO the CR-575 would make a great cam for a 103 Limited.
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jimp

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #136 on: December 07, 2010, 06:13:33 PM »

Jim you stop riding? those discs look pretty clean.  LOL  Doc

Nope just been work busy and I spend alot of time at the gun range.
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TimBone

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #137 on: December 08, 2010, 09:09:49 AM »

Jimp,
What kind of MPG are you getting running the bike at 75/80 MPH on HiWay?
ANd how about round town cruising and all.
I have similar build and real good tune but boy does she drink the gas on the
HiWays!
Thanks Tim
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jimp

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Re: Cycle Rama 575 Cams, TTS And Fullsacs Dyno Sheet, Updated With SuperTrapp's.
« Reply #138 on: December 10, 2010, 05:08:21 PM »

Jimp,
What kind of MPG are you getting running the bike at 75/80 MPH on HiWay?
ANd how about round town cruising and all.
I have similar build and real good tune but boy does she drink the gas on the
HiWays!
Thanks Tim

Tim I don't remember the exact mileage, but it was not a huge drop off at any range of riding.
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