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[KC2GIW]

Let the product mature and your builder may need to build a new database.
Mahle is a very high quality piston and nothing they produce is just thrown out there. I am sure the piston and cylinder were developed as a pair and the proper sealing and longevity issues were taken into consideration. This is becoming a production displacement.

Does Mahle make HD's Pistons?


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[dnlpnd]

Let the product mature and your builder may need to build a new database.
Mahle is a very high quality piston and nothing they produce is just thrown out there. I am sure the piston and cylinder were developed as a pair and the proper sealing and longevity issues were taken into consideration. This is becoming a production displacement.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this kit is the first Screamin Eagle kit to utilize steel liners in cylinders.  Any documented ring wear, ring sealing, or piston over heating issues using a casting designed for a 4" bored out to 4.125" and then another .030" for a liner?  The cylinder core is getting extremely thin at this point.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

no HD built a 110 drop on kit as well.. again these are tool steel liners. just because its thin is like comparing a watermelon to a peanut.  and again steel  liners are being used in the automotive side today and have been for over 18 years in V-8 chevy LS engine , millions and millions of them in production.

[hrdtail78]

Chevy doesn't have a spigot.   The liner is completely inside the block.  I'm not saying an opinion one way or the other. Just that the comparison isn't a direct one.   I read on the internet that the spigot has no load on it, but why did the HD older 113 kits crack right where the spigot started?

Tool steal or whatever it is?  Is that harder and more brittle than ductile or cast iron?  I don't know, and I am asking.


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[KC2GIW]

Chevy doesn't have a spigot.   The liner is completely inside the block.  I'm not saying an opinion one way or the other. Just that the comparison isn't a direct one.   I read on the internet that the spigot has no load on it, but why did the HD older 113 kits crack right where the spigot started?

Tool steal or whatever it is?  Is that harder and more brittle than ductile or cast iron?  I don't know, and I am asking.


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It is tougher and less brittle than cast iron.




Right from HD's propaganda machine.

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[dnlpnd]

no HD built a 110 drop on kit as well.. again these are tool steel liners. just because its thin is like comparing a watermelon to a peanut.  and again steel  liners are being used in the automotive side today and have been for over 18 years in V-8 chevy LS engine , millions and millions of them in production.

Chevy doesn't have a spigot.   The liner is completely inside the block.  I'm not saying an opinion one way or the other. Just that the comparison isn't a direct one.   I read on the internet that the spigot has no load on it, but why did the HD older 113 kits crack right where the spigot started?

Tool steal or whatever it is?  Is that harder and more brittle than ductile or cast iron?  I don't know, and I am asking.

It is tougher and less brittle than cast iron.

Right from HD's propaganda machine.

I agree with all of you.

1.)   I understand that steel liners have been used successfully in the automotive industry for years.
2.)   Steel liners in a liquid cooled aluminum block are vastly different than what we are talking about here.
3.)   Steel is stronger and less brittle than cast or ductile iron.
4.)   Steel (in general) has a higher heat conductivity coefficient than iron.

I am a mechanical engineer by profession and I can’t help but keep coming back to heat transfer issue by taking a casting designed for a 4” bore, boring it out to 4.125” for the pistons, and then boring to 4.185” for the liners.  There cannot be much cast iron left and what happens with the additional heat from a more voluminous combustion?

Since the 103ci to 110ci kit appears to be a scaled up version for the 110ci to 117ci kit (steel liners and all) and the 110ci kit was out a little sooner, maybe we should look to 103ci owners (and upgraders) for emerging problems.

dnlpnd

[Ridgerunr]

"why did the HD older 113 kits crack right where the spigot started?"

I had the first 113" kit in Michigan, and probably one of the first 5 in the country back then. I ran those cylinders for many hard miles. They are still in the motor getting beat on a regular basis, now bored to 4.075, no problems. This is the first I've heard of that happening. Been on the these Harley boards since 2004. Maybe I missed the posts somehow. 

[Unbalanced]

Does Mahle make HD's Pistons?


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Some yes.   Example is the 110  10.5 compression piston.

[HD Street Performance]

I am a mechanical engineer by profession and I can’t help but keep coming back to heat transfer issue by taking a casting designed for a 4” bore, boring it out to 4.125” for the pistons, and then boring to 4.185” for the liners.  There cannot be much cast iron left and what happens with the additional heat from a more voluminous combustion?

OK but these are new castings designed from the ground up. The only thin spot in the liner is due to the machining of the spigot to fit the case bore. The whole length of the casting the liner is much thicker.

[dnlpnd]

I am a mechanical engineer by profession and I can’t help but keep coming back to heat transfer issue by taking a casting designed for a 4” bore, boring it out to 4.125” for the pistons, and then boring to 4.185” for the liners.  There cannot be much cast iron left and what happens with the additional heat from a more voluminous combustion?

OK but these are new castings designed from the ground up. The only thin spot in the liner is due to the machining of the spigot to fit the case bore. The whole length of the casting the liner is much thicker.

Wow, good to know!  I am really surprised this is a newly designed casting.  I assumed they took a standard 110 cylinder and bored the crap out of it and compensated with a pressed in steel liner.  I especially feel better about it now with you saying the liner is thicker throughout the length of the cylinder.

Thanks!

[KC2GIW]

Check the video. He shows you the whole liner. Looks pretty substantial. Not press fit but cast into the iron.


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[HD Street Performance]

Wow, good to know!  I am really surprised this is a newly designed casting.  I assumed they took a standard 110 cylinder and bored the crap out it and compensated with a pressed in steel liner.  I especially feel better about it now with you saying the liner is thicker throughout the length of the cylinder.

Thanks!

The stock cast liners are centrifugally cast in place, if I am not mistaken

[dnlpnd]

The stock cast liners are centrifugally cast in place, if I am not mistaken

All the better for thermal conductivity purposes!  These steel lined cast iron cylinders may actually pull heat away from the combustion process more efficiently that cast iron alone.  Too bad there wasn't research out there yet on the steel and iron cylinders in an air cooled v-twin configuration.  Rev Performance claims 30-40 degree lower temps with their Aluminum cylinders with Nickel Silicon Carbide plating.

[bakon]

Good info

[hrdtail78]

I worked on a HD 113 a couple of years ago and the spigots where cracked.  I talked with another shop that had seen a couple crack also.  I don't know if it was a big problem or not.  Just what I had seen.

To clear things up.  These new cylinders are steal lined aluminum cylinders, right?