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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: sg2848775 on October 19, 2014, 10:58:55 AM
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What is the real difference between the 103 motor verus the 110 besides price ? I just purchased a 2015 Breakout 103 which I thought looked a lot cleaner in vivid black then the 110. Is it a horse power thing?
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What is the real difference between the 103 motor verus the 110 besides price ? I just purchased a 2015 Breakout 103 which I thought looked a lot cleaner in vivid black then the 110. Is it a horse power thing?
Never mind
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About 7 hp less and 7 cu in less between the two of them
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Thanks Steve Cole. Thats a better answer then jswere. Thats what I was after. Thanks Again.
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Thanks Steve Cole. Thats a better answer then jswere. Thats what I was after. Thanks Again.
Blank
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What is the real difference between the 103 motor verus the 110 besides price ? I just purchased a 2015 Breakout 103 which I thought looked a lot cleaner in vivid black then the 110. Is it a horse power thing?
Heads and 4" bore are larger on the 110", as well as the 110" has the 255 cam.
Completely different configuration than a 103".
Scott
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Is the OP trying to compare the 103 non-CVO to the 110 CVO bike? He said he liked the black that looked "cleaner in vivid black" than I presume was the CVO Breakout? If that is the case there is much more to compare. Do the engines really look all that different?
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Not at all. I just wanted to know the difference between the two. Nothing more. Both motors look identical. And thats why the question. And Steve Cole addressed that point.
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I understand and when I did re read the question you were very clear. Understanding on the web is not always easy for me.
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About 7 hp less and 7 cu in less between the two of them
Don't forget the 20-30 deg. difference in oil temps.........with the 110" being the higher of the two.
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Don't forget the extra rattles and compensator issues that are "normal" for the 110.
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OK...I have a question(s):
1) what exactly is this compensator I keep reading about?
2) and, what exactly does it compensate for?
3) finally, why does it seem to be such a problematic component in 110's.
Please...don't tell me that as a new SERK owner I'll have wait for it to crap-out to understand!
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OK...I have a question(s):
1) what exactly is this compensator I keep reading about?
2) and, what exactly does it compensate for?
3) finally, why does it seem to be such a problematic component in 110's.
Please...don't tell me that as a new SERK owner I'll have wait for it to crap-out to understand!
1. It's basically the primary drive sprocket on the left end of the engine shaft. It has three ramps and springs in it, to attempt to provide some cushioning between the engine and the rest of the drive train when you transition between power on and power off.
2. Its function is to help compensate for the stresses that are delivered to the crank shaft via the primary chain from the rest of the drive train, to provide a smoother transition between power on and power off. Harley cranks are notorious for having high runout ever since they went with the pressed-together crank on the Twin Cam engines. The compensating sprocket is an attempt to keep these cranks living longer, by trying to take up some of the slop in the rest of the drive train, so the force doesn't bang on the crank so hard when you accelerate or decelerate.
3. The comp has always been a troublesome component. The MoCo is on their 4th or 5th design change on this thing, and they continue to fail prematurely. It got worse in '07 when they implemented the new CruiseDrive drivetrain for the 96" engines, and the 110" engines on the CVOs. The newest comp version has a plastic ramp that glues onto the inside of the primary cover, to attempt to provide better oiling of the comp. The '14-up outer primary covers have the ramp already molded into them from the factory.
I've been thinking about going to the Evolution Industries solid sprocket to get rid of the comp altogether. But then, I'd probably have to get my crank welded/plugged/balanced, with the Timken bearing, so IT wouldn't fail prematurely. I will probably have to do that anyway at some point.
Unless you ride very lightly, you will have comp issues at some point. I ride hard, and my comp is going at 19,000 miles. Many have failed with many less miles. Engine kickback on starting, a backfire on starting, rattling noise in the front of the primary, a loud THUNK when turning the engine off, and general jerkiness in the drive train are all symptoms of comp failure. My bike has all of these symptoms.
Hope this helps.
Ken
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get the 103",do 107" conversion.youll have a better motor with more HP/TQ than a stock 110
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1. It's basically the primary drive sprocket on the left end of the engine shaft. It has three ramps and springs in it, to attempt to provide some cushioning between the engine and the rest of the drive train when you transition between power on and power off.
2. Its function is to help compensate for the stresses that are delivered to the crank shaft via the primary chain from the rest of the drive train, to provide a smoother transition between power on and power off. Harley cranks are notorious for having high runout ever since they went with the pressed-together crank on the Twin Cam engines. The compensating sprocket is an attempt to keep these cranks living longer, by trying to take up some of the slop in the rest of the drive train, so the force doesn't bang on the crank so hard when you accelerate or decelerate.
3. The comp has always been a troublesome component. The MoCo is on their 4th or 5th design change on this thing, and they continue to fail prematurely. It got worse in '07 when they implemented the new CruiseDrive drivetrain for the 96" engines, and the 110" engines on the CVOs. The newest comp version has a plastic ramp that glues onto the inside of the primary cover, to attempt to provide better oiling of the comp. The '14-up outer primary covers have the ramp already molded into them from the factory.
I've been thinking about going to the Evolution Industries solid sprocket to get rid of the comp altogether. But then, I'd probably have to get my crank welded/plugged/balanced, with the Timken bearing, so IT wouldn't fail prematurely. I will probably have to do that anyway at some point.
Unless you ride very lightly, you will have comp issues at some point. I ride hard, and my comp is going at 19,000 miles. Many have failed with many less miles. Engine kickback on starting, a backfire on starting, rattling noise in the front of the primary, a loud THUNK when turning the engine off, and general jerkiness in the drive train are all symptoms of comp failure. My bike has all of these symptoms.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Ken
Hit the nail on the head.. However you do not have to deal with there is a fix..
www.compensaver.com Follow the contact info and you can order it online.
But Ken give me a call when you have time please. I want to send you a kit to install on that bike. I know it will solve all the issues you have ;)
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"The comp has always been a troublesome component"
Not true IME. My 2004 RG (126hp/123tq) currently has 79,000+ hard miles on the OE comp. nary a problem. Before that (same design) on several Evo's logged more than a quarter million miles, no problems. Before that several Shovels and Pans with no problems. Having dozens of riding friends over the last 40 years, nobody had issues with comps. Plenty of other issues LOL, but not comps. The present crop of engineers just had to screw with them evidently. You know corporations must embrace "change"....even if it doesn't work.
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"The comp has always been a troublesome component"
Not true IME. My 2004 RG (126hp/123tq) currently has 79,000+ hard miles on the OE comp. nary a problem. Before that (same design) on several Evo's logged more than a quarter million miles, no problems. Before that several Shovels and Pans with no problems. Having dozens of riding friends over the last 40 years, nobody had issues with comps. Plenty of other issues LOL, but not comps. The present crop of engineers just had to screw with them evidently. You know corporations must embrace "change"....even if it doesn't work.
Correct the early style comp was a very robust part. But from 2007 ( 2006 dyna) the comp has been a issue in fact the new current comp still is a rattler on a large % fo the bikes due to the new flat roller bearing they used.
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Men are always trying to compensate for something. Bwahaha
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Well Jesse you are in fact wanting 3 more inches.. so what does that tell others :nixweiss: HA HA
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Well Jesse you are in fact wanting 3 more inches.. so what does that tell others :nixweiss: HA HA
Hey I'm short what can I say? I'd settle for 1 more!
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Correct the early style comp was a very robust part. But from 2007 ( 2006 dyna) the comp has been a issue in fact the new current comp still is a rattler on a large % fo the bikes due to the new flat roller bearing they used.
"The comp has always been a troublesome component"
Not true IME. My 2004 RG (126hp/123tq) currently has 79,000+ hard miles on the OE comp. nary a problem. Before that (same design) on several Evo's logged more than a quarter million miles, no problems. Before that several Shovels and Pans with no problems. Having dozens of riding friends over the last 40 years, nobody had issues with comps. Plenty of other issues LOL, but not comps. The present crop of engineers just had to screw with them evidently. You know corporations must embrace "change"....even if it doesn't work.
Correct the early style comp was a very robust part. But from 2007 ( 2006 dyna) the comp has been a issue in fact the new current comp still is a rattler on a large % fo the bikes due to the new flat roller bearing they used.
Quite true, guys! I had a '95 FLHTP that never gave me a bit of trouble with the comp... or anything else for that matter. The Evo big twin was nearly bulletproof - and aside from the Evo Sportster engine, is IMHO the most reliable engine the MoCo has ever produced... probably because it's so simple, with its single cam driven off of the crank with a pinion gear, much stouter bolted-together crank like the Pans and Shovels had, replaceable lifter blocks, etc. Many less parts to go out of spec or fail.
I was directing my comments to Twin Cams, specifically the '07-up design, but I didn't word it very clearly. Guess I shouldn't post in the middle of a sleepless night!
One thing that comes to mind is that our current CVOs put out considerably more TQ/HP than the previous engines, especially when we hop them up as we like to do. That surely puts a lot more strain on the compensator than the previous engines ever did. But I can't help wondering exactly why the previous compensators hardly ever failed, and these new '07-up ones are failing right and left. Is it just a cheap design that the MoCo refuses to properly address through a more robust design to save money, or something more dark and sinister? :verkleidung009:
Ken
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I just packaged my 5th compensator to be mailed for the one year warranty. I've posted this quite a few times, on the 08 SERK the first compensator went at 41,400 miles after that it was about one compensator per 10,000 miles. I plan on giving Steve a call for info on his product and any other tidbits he might have to make the primary live longer. I'll try to locate and post two photos of the drain plug magnets from the primary. It's quite impressive if you like lots of metal sludge. I've got all winter to figure exactly what I plan to do bike. Bike has 80,000 plus and needs a few big items.
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I just packaged my 5th compensator to be mailed for the one year warranty. I've posted this quite a few times, on the 08 SERK the first compensator went at 41,400 miles after that it was about one compensator per 10,000 miles. I plan on giving Steve a call for info on his product and any other tidbits he might have to make the primary live longer. I'll try to locate and post two photos of the drain plug magnets from the primary. It's quite impressive if you like lots of metal sludge. I've got all winter to figure exactly what I plan to do bike. Bike has 80,000 plus and needs a few big items.
Good Lord!
Too bad you can no longer buy the comp style that was on your bike to begin with!
I hope I don't go down the same road as you when I replace my comp this winter...
Ken
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maybe sooner Ken :2vrolijk_21:
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The difference between a 103 and 110?
My wife's Switchback has a Stage 1 breather and race tuner and has no where near the torque as the CVO.
After riding it I think she wants to upgrade…. :'(
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maybe sooner Ken :2vrolijk_21:
Yeah... DEFINITELY sooner, Steve!
Ken
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Yea Steve I know the 07 and later suck, I took "have always been a problem" literally. It's all good. Harley will never admit a mistake.
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Oh No. Did you just say a load THUNK with turning off your motor then the compensator is bad. I had concerns but now I guess I'll be spending more green.
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The latest comp will still make some noise on shut down. But if the early style is banging on shut down I would suggest replacement and then adding the compensaver to protect your new parts
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What's a compensaver?
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Found it. An oil delivery system to prolong life expectancy. Or something like to that effect.