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Author Topic: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint  (Read 5066 times)

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1abastarsmda

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PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« on: June 29, 2013, 06:34:34 PM »

As we left Thunder in the Valley Bike Rally in Johnstown last week, our entire group of about 10 bikes was stopped by the State Police.  We were asked for driver's license, insurance card, and registration, and I guess a few were asked if they had any weapons.  There were probably about a dozen trooper cars there blocking the road and forced us off the road to a dirt and gravel area off the road.  No cars were being stopped; only bikes.  Isn't this discrimination?  I told the trooper that it would have been nice if they could have found a safe place to pull bikes over, rather than into gravel...not that he seemed to care.  I just happen to think that it's a load of crap to single out bikes for anything.  I did get to find out that one of the guys I ride with has been riding for over 40 years without ever getting a motorcycle endorsement on his license, so he ended up with a fine, but they did let him go.  Anyway, I thought that I read somewhere that singling out bikes for a checkpoint was found to be illegal when it was done somewhere else (maybe it was Myrtle Beach or perhaps somewhere in CA).  Does anybody know of something that can be done to stop them from this nonsense?  I suppose on the flip side, if my bike were stolen at the rally and they caught the person with my bike a few miles up the road, I'd probably be praising them right now.
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VaEagle

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2013, 06:54:09 PM »

In Virginia last year a law was passed outlawing motorcycle only checkpoints.

http://motorcyclelawgroup.com/prohibiting-federal-funds-for-motorcycle-only-checkpoints/
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 06:58:50 PM by VaEagle »
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JakeB

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2013, 07:02:43 PM »

your gov't at work.  POS MOFOs. 
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2013, 07:06:37 PM »

Actually I think the law passed only prohibits the USE OF FEDERAL FUNDS to pay for the cost of the check points. I guess that would mean states can still do "safety checks" on bikes only as long as no federal money is used. BTW -- NY does this every year upstate during the Americade event - it can be a royal pain if you're the guy stopped. We avoid travelling the highways and/or more highly traveled routes when travelling to/from events like Americade, Laconia ect..

Might take me longer to get there but that means more time on the bike  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2013, 07:16:22 PM »

your gov't at work.  POS MOFOs. 

X2  :sauer021:  :police:
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2013, 07:20:06 PM »

AMA has a page regarding this - Motorcycle Only Checkpoints that may provide useful information.

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2013, 07:21:08 PM »

This is the new Virginia law which applies to this thread.....

State code 46.2-103
Except as prohibited by § 19.2-59, on his request or signal, any law-enforcement officer who is in uniform or displays his badge or other sign of authority may:

1. Stop any motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer to inspect its equipment, operation, manufacturer’s serial or engine number; or

2. Stop any property-carrying motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer to inspect its contents or load or to obtain other necessary information.

Nothing in this section, however, shall be construed to authorize the establishment on any highway of police check-points where the only vehicles subject to inspection are motorcycles.

Comment: This Statute removes the authority of law enforcement to conduct safety checkpoints for motorcycles only.
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dlaws01

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2013, 09:52:44 PM »

Not sure if it's legal or not but it sure is criminal.   >:(
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2013, 10:44:36 PM »

Police may only stop vehicles if there is, at a minimum, reasonable suspicion that an offense has occurred, is occurring, or is about to occur.  Vehicle check points may be employed if there is no discrimination of motorist (i.e., the police can't stop all Fords and nothing else, all Hispanics, all BMWs, etc.).  The police can waive thru motorist if traffic is backing up, they may employ a scheme-such as checking every 5th car, etc.  It seems stopping only motorcycles, with no reasonable suspicion, would be a Consitiutional violation (4th Amendment).  I can't see a vehicle check point of "motorcycles only" passing a constitutional test either.  Depending on the state, Commercial Motor Vehicles may be stopped for random inspections by law law enforcement officers.  This doesn't apply to passenger vehicles.

If you'd like the US Supreme Court case that requires the police to have a reason before stopping a vehicle, Google Delaware v. Prouse.  Sorry for replying with such technical mumbo-jumbo.
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1abastarsmda

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2013, 11:08:07 PM »

So my constitutional rights have been violated.  That's what I felt immediately.  If I would have refused to pull over, I'd probably be in jail right now.  After retaining a high profile attorney, maybe I'd get the charges dismissed.  Who wants to take that chance?  It's wrong, yet they will continue to get away with it.
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 07:58:56 AM »

I'm headed to Gettysburg for Bike week July 11 -14 hope they don't pull this one up there.
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2013, 08:10:11 AM »

So my constitutional rights have been violated.  That's what I felt immediately.  If I would have refused to pull over, I'd probably be in jail right now.  After retaining a high profile attorney, maybe I'd get the charges dismissed.  Who wants to take that chance?  It's wrong, yet they will continue to get away with it.

Oh, I agree, you did the prudent thing.  Its just disappointing when those that are charged with enforcing our laws are operating fast and furious, with little regard for our rights.
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2013, 11:59:42 AM »

Oh, I agree, you did the prudent thing.  Its just disappointing when those that are charged with enforcing our laws are operating fast and furious, with little regard for our rights.
You sound like a Law Officer, past or present. To bad all the enforcement officals don't think like you, their positions would be respected more if this was the case. One encounter with a rogue cop = all cops are Aholes?? SAD.
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2013, 07:43:21 AM »

There was another check point at Thunder In The Valley on Saturday afternoon. They let me go by but had a bunch of crouch rockets pulled over and all the riders sitting on the side of a hill.
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Bill

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2013, 10:46:45 AM »

The important thing to remember here is that the police don't wake up and say lets harass the bikers today.

There is someone or entity (city council) farther up the food chain (no disrespect to the police) that is interested in harassing bikers. Poke around a little and you'll find out who the real culprit is.

It is a proven fact over the years that places like Daytona and Myrtle Beach suffered terribly from the loss of biker revenue when they tried these and other tactics. Both are still trying to win back the bikers.

 Jerry
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muddypaws

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2013, 10:50:36 AM »

Johnstown can't afford to have the event go down hill. There are no jobs and a lot of very poor people living there. This event keeps the city from going away. I spent about $1000 on food and lodging.
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Bill

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2013, 10:57:40 AM »

It is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. -

I feel sorry that the LEOs that have to violate their fellow citizens and perform this abortion while criminals are out doing bad things....it is nothing short of disgusting.

Jussayinzall.
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2013, 03:00:29 PM »

Damn LEO's.
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2013, 06:50:34 PM »

I hope the local A.B.A.T.E, the AMA and other MC groups are all over this..This country is in a lot of trouble.  Politicians and police are thumbing their noses at the Constitution and the courts are backing them up.  They're rioting all over the middle east.  Wonder how long the american people are going to take this crap..
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oe542bob

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2013, 07:05:47 PM »

Yea this crap happens all the time. I live in an area known as the Lehigh Valley in PA. About 60 miles north of Philadelphia. About 5 years ago, about 6 bikes in our group decided to go to New Hope, PA. This is a little artsy-fartsy town along the Delaware River. Beautiful ride on Route 32. As we crawled through town, which were all going to stop and get some food, we were greeted at the south end of town with a police officer and a orange street sign that said muffler inspection. They were making all bikes turn left down a short side street to be inspected. My wife and I were at the tail end and since traffic was such a mess, we turned up behind a store and averted the stop. We then parked across the road in a "legal" parking spot. Now separated, as the rest of our group got sucked into the police vortex!
We got a table right off the sidewalk at a nice restaurant/tavern. As we watched traffic, a red '55 Chevy came to that same sign, but the police didn't care about the sound he was making with his exhaust.
When we finally regrouped out of town, my friends told me it was chaos on the back side street and no where to park. When the cop told them to pull up, they just didn't stop a continued right out of town. We called this our "Never again New Hope ride."
Another 1 in Steel City, PA. There is a hill climb there and the local cops stand on the street at the entrance to the property, and just pick bikes out as they come into the event. I counted 5 cops at one point. PA state police are also posted at various spots on the way in to the event, but they never seem to be stopping anyone. Only the local cops.
Crossed that event off my list too.
Lake George, NY is also loaded with cops during Americade. Couple of years ago, NY state police were diverting all motorcycles off Interstate 87. Found out that non DOT helmets were targeted. Ended up running down to Fort Ann HD dealer and buying to legal helmets.
In closing, these places like our money, but I'm really tired of the harassment! Nuff said! Bob F
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2013, 08:45:42 PM »

A new twist on checkpoints that was in the news today.  Fake checkpoints!   

http://rt.com/usa/fake-drug-ohio-police-502/
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1abastarsmda

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2013, 10:07:17 PM »

There was another check point at Thunder In The Valley on Saturday afternoon. They let me go by but had a bunch of crouch rockets pulled over and all the riders sitting on the side of a hill.

The checkpoint that we were stopped at was also on Saturday afternoon on Rt 403 north of Johnstown.  We were heading north and pulled off on the right side of the road.  There was a group of crotch rockets with a group of guys sitting on the hillside and they didn't look like they were being invited to leave anytime soon.  None of them looked like they were ready to quietly sneak off into the woods.  They were letting bikes go by until our group pulled out, and then we saw the next group get pulled over in our rear view mirrors.  It sounds like you may have passed the same one that we were stopped at.  Was this the same one or did they have multiple locations set up?
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mark

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 06:58:02 PM »

I hesitated in posting this due to its length, but found Rep. Sensenbrenner to be spot-on in his analysis...these check points really have nothing to due with making motorcycling safer.

Motorcycle-Only Checkpoints Are Misguided Policy - Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner.


May is Motorcycle Safety Awareness Month and we welcome motorcyclists from across the country to Washington for “Bikers Inside the Beltway” week. During this week, Congress should be reminded that effective motorcycle safety can help keep all of us safer on the road, but efforts to expand a government program that arbitrarily roadblocks law-abiding motorcyclists are a misguided, ineffective use of taxpayer funds.

As the transportation conference committee meets to hash out the differences between the House and Senate versions of the highway bill, I urge the conferees to reject funding for motorcycle-only checkpoints and focus on critical crash prevention and rider education that can help save lives.

The Department of Transportation has awarded grants to a few states to implement motorcycle-only checkpoint programs. Proponents of MOCs argue they are important for improving traffic safety and reducing the number of motorcycle accidents.

Law enforcement officials across America already work hard to enforce our traffic laws to keep all riders and drivers safe — cracking down on speeding, reckless driving and driving while intoxicated. MOCs, on the other hand, force law enforcement officials to play “nanny state” to all riders rather than focusing on those who are endangering themselves and others on the road. In New York’s pilot program, a wide majority of those pulled over and detained were ticketed for infractions that do not prevent motorcycle crashes. Of the 104 traffic tickets issued, the police issued 41 tickets for operating with an unapproved helmet and 7 tickets for an illegal exhaust.

Motorcycle safety should be a priority, but the government’s efforts should focus on policies that can make our roads safer and stop crashes before they happen. The current trend to expand MOCs across the country — a government-mandated, one-size-fits-all approach — will not address the primary causes of accidents, but it will unnecessarily infringe on law-abiding motorcyclists’ rights.

What then, are the primary causes of crashes and how can we prevent these factors from causing accidents and claiming more lives on the road?

According to the American Motorcyclist Association, the majority of fatal motorcycle crashes involve another vehicle. One-half of those crashes resulted when the driver of the other vehicle failed to yield to a motorcyclist. Motorist awareness campaigns can address the primary cause of fatal motorcycle crashes and help make our roads safer for riders, drivers, and pedestrians.

Also, according to the AMA, about 25 percent of the motorcycle operators involved in fatal crashes were operating with an invalid license. Motorcycle safety programs that include licensing and testing can also reduce crashes before even getting on the road.

At every level of government, budgets are under significant strain as many valuable programs and services vie for limited resources. Funding for the MOCs would be better spent on addressing the factors that endanger the lives of motorcyclists and other drivers on the road, like proper licensing, rider awareness and education.

Rather than applying for MOC grants, states should be allowed to apply for voluntary motorcycle training courses and programs that highlight the importance of proper licensing. These efforts will do more to save the lives of motorcyclists without pre-empting state laws and creating one-size-fits-all programs out of Washington.

Additionally, any safety efforts should take into consideration the concerns and needs of the rider groups. Motorcyclists and rider groups overwhelming reject checkpoints because this policy ignores their underlying concerns about crash prevention. Efforts to concentrate on awareness of motorcycles and crash prevention have the full support of the American Motorcyclist Association, the Motorcycle Riders Foundation and local rider groups across the country.

I authored H.R. 904, legislation that would prevent the Department of Transportation from wasting taxpayer funds to create MOCs. This bill has bipartisan support and a number of Members on the Transportation Committee have already co-sponsored it.

I hope my colleagues affirm our nation’s commitment to both motorcycle safety and efficient use of taxpayer funds by including the language of H.R. 904 in the conference report. Congress does not need to create another government program just for the sake of expanding government. Instead, we can concentrate efforts that will protect riders and make the roads safer for all of us.

 

Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) is a senior member of the Judiciary Committee.
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phato1

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 07:32:47 PM »

My appologies to Vaeagle -- I was confusing Rep Sensenbrenners' bill witch is a federal one dealing with the use of federal funds for these "safety" checkpoints with the legislation that has been implemented at the state level by several states.  :-[

I will agree that it certainly feels like a violation of my rights to arbitrarily pull over motorcycles, but on the other hand the police have been doing something similar for years when they conduct those drunk driver checks by funneling all traffic to one lane and making a judgement on which ones require further scrutiny either for faulty equipment, lack of inspection stickers or operators that just have that "look" to 'em. To me the main difference is that ALL traffic is subject to a DUI type checkpoint not just minivans, sports cars or male/female drivers. Signaling out motorcycles seems like unfair or unequal treatment under the law.

Up to this point I haven't been subject to one of these stops - again as I posted earlier probably because we tend to avoid the "main" routes to most events we attend - it's not that I feel I have to I just prefer the secondary or tertiary roads.
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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2013, 11:21:56 AM »

I wonder how it would be received by the public if the police conducted "church bus" only safety checks, or "vehicles over 20 yrs. old" safety checks (the list could go on and on...convertibles only, Fords only, red cars only, etc.)  If the govt is using "safety" as the basis for singling out motorcycles, then apparently it would be permissible to single out those drivers under age 21 or the elderly, since they are involved in a disproportiate number of accidents.

I'd like to meet the egg-head at the Federal DOT that came up with this idea.  The program seems aimed at motorcycle harassment than any concern over safety.  As Rep. Sensenbrenner stated, most of the violations found at these check points have nothing to do with safety. 
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VaEagle

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2013, 05:48:48 PM »

My appologies to Vaeagle -- I was confusing Rep Sensenbrenners' bill witch is a federal one dealing with the use of federal funds for these "safety" checkpoints with the legislation that has been implemented at the state level by several states.  :-[



Thanks but no apology necessary. It is a multilevel issue.

I believe a better use of federal funds to increase motorcycle safety would be to follow ideas above about education and driver awareness.
A group of guys I ride with have their teenagers take a motorcycle riders course before they get their driver's license that way even if they never ride a bike on their own they are more aware of bikes and issues they face on the road.
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1abastarsmda

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2013, 11:30:23 PM »

I wonder how it would be received by the public if the police conducted "church bus" only safety checks, or "vehicles over 20 yrs. old" safety checks (the list could go on and on...convertibles only, Fords only, red cars only, etc.)  If the govt is using "safety" as the basis for singling out motorcycles, then apparently it would be permissible to single out those drivers under age 21 or the elderly, since they are involved in a disproportionate number of accidents.

I'd like to meet the egg-head at the Federal DOT that came up with this idea.  The program seems aimed at motorcycle harassment than any concern over safety.  As Rep. Sensenbrenner stated, most of the violations found at these check points have nothing to do with safety. 

Well said!
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oe542bob

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2013, 12:10:57 PM »

OK I am new here and not looking to start a fight or have a heated debate. If you look at my name you can guess my occupation. Different states have different laws but I can tell you in Indiana when we conduct DWI checkpoints we advertise in advance notice. We have a set number that we stick with. Another words we will stop the 6th car for example. One person (usually a boss) will count and it is his sole job to count and verify the count. He notes the race/sex and etc.....If this count would be violated we would no longer receive federal funding and any arrest would then be void. The count is NEVER altered!!!

Now to motorcycle stops. We do not do those and I am not sure they would be legal in Indiana. As a personal note I think they are BS and would not participate. My Dad, Brother, Uncle etc all ride. I belong to a LEMC and damn sure not singling out riders. My point is not all Police are bad and are usually just doing what the Prosecutor/Mayor..etc want them to do with in State Law. I have found that if a place no longer wants the money I, along with other riders spend, then another place is happy to have it and I make sure to voice that in the local area. It is funny how things change when the local business finds out they will lose thousands of dollars... Happy 4th!!!!!         
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mark

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2013, 06:15:40 PM »

Boxer cop....you're not starting a dust up...you appear to be view this the way we do.  No one here is complaining about check points....as long as it's all motorist that are checked.  Doesn't pass the smell test when it is MC only, especially when the check pt. is on the way to or near a MC rally.
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OhioDave

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Re: PA State Police set up Motorcycle Only Checkpoint
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2013, 10:43:41 PM »

OK I am new here and not looking to start a fight or have a heated debate. If you look at my name you can guess my occupation. Different states have different laws but I can tell you in Indiana when we conduct DWI checkpoints we advertise in advance notice. We have a set number that we stick with. Another words we will stop the 6th car for example. One person (usually a boss) will count and it is his sole job to count and verify the count. He notes the race/sex and etc.....If this count would be violated we would no longer receive federal funding and any arrest would then be void. The count is NEVER altered!!!

Now to motorcycle stops. We do not do those and I am not sure they would be legal in Indiana. As a personal note I think they are BS and would not participate. My Dad, Brother, Uncle etc all ride. I belong to a LEMC and damn sure not singling out riders. My point is not all Police are bad and are usually just doing what the Prosecutor/Mayor..etc want them to do with in State Law. I have found that if a place no longer wants the money I, along with other riders spend, then another place is happy to have it and I make sure to voice that in the local area. It is funny how things change when the local business finds out they will lose thousands of dollars... Happy 4th!!!!!         

 :2vrolijk_21:
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