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[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Same here. Want others to know that with FP3 my bike is running so excellent that it's nearly impossible to imagine how it would run any better with further tweeking. Just tuned my throttle response to "race" as it was suggested above. It took about 2 minutes via iphone.

Over here in Europe we don't know anything about miles, but what comes to fuel economy, I just filled my tank and the range jumped to +430km's. Took a short spin of 30km's and the range dropped to 427km's. I don't know how many kilometres or miles others are getting from their tanks with normal type of riding, but it doesn't sound too bad.

If someone gives proof that with dyno I can get much better economy and even more smoother running engine, I will push my bike over there asap. Hell, could even think of flying the dyno specialist for a weeks holiday in Europe to do his magic.

I understand that many will never tune a bike on a dyno them selves so they have no hands on to truly understand what it takes to correctly tune a bike. This is not about peak power or its just a cruiser not a race bike. Just facts.. A shop that has no dyno claims they are the best( what ever they claim brand wise) .. well yes what else can they do???.. a shop that is running under the moco rules will tell you that the Pro tuner is the way to go.

As a shop that tunes just about all the tuners out there..  plan your build now and in the future.  Cost wise you will spend more if a new tuner is needed at a later date. 

AS for the challenge of tuning.... I will take that you buy.... I fly

I have no doubt that your bike runs better than it did stock ,.. however until you can compare it to a bike correctly tuned tough to say that it can be better.  as you have nothing to compare it against..    Never been to Finland 



BTW I had tuned them on the dyno as street tuning is tough ,  Too many cars trucks on the roads in this area to be tuning on the street.  Hell they never use the turn signal as it is so try to watch a screen, and tune the bike and watch the these drivers sure to get you buggered.  Its better but still lacks the fine details tuning wise.. BUT you need to understand what they are targeting. Its better than a straight canned map and for most if it runs better than it did they have a happy customer.. Until that is they ride a bike that has been tuned correctly that is 

[Ridgerunr]

"If someone gives proof that with dyno I can get much better economy and even more smoother running engine, I will push my bike over there asap."

Can you prove your bike is not detonating in all throttle positions? You can't always hear it. Detonation isn't called the silent killer for nothing.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

That is funny you brought that up..    Get a phone call where a guy has a blown engine. Dealer was running it on the dyno ( not tuning but checking AFR) front piston breaks apart and makes a huge mess. Guy had a 103 with 255 cam if I recall .. skip to the end Detonation was the reason.. A cast piston will get micro fractures in it.. It is cast after all over time it failed..

Timing plays a huge role in the tune. The HD  ION system is not great by any means.. Most times the system is chasing the ping and pulling timing but it will still ping.. All it can do is look at a abnormality in the voltage to the plug. It really has no idea what ping is other than when it sees "X" it pulls timing.

Again there is a lot to properly tuning a engine in all the areas .. Think back or search back a few years where all the guys where trying to tune on the street and burning up brake pads and warping rotors trying to get into the areas long enough to get correct data.. Flashing through a area a few times is data but it may or may not be correct. So now you have adaptive fuel looking at surrounding  cells and making changes based on data it has to work with. Correct info or not the change will still happen.

The "human" in the tune is the game changer as we can look at something and know it's wrong and make changes to correct that..  Old saying garbage in garbage out..

[TNCarters]

Running the FP3 with a catless head pipe and Fullsac muffler cores.  Its doing OK but don't doubt a good dyno tuner could do better.  I put it on because I have no tuners in my area I trust and did not want the bike running lean so it was either this or a Powervision/TTS with canned map.  Never operated a dyno but have no doubt the FP3 would be a pain for a tuner to use with the limited maps, maps locked into your phone and you can only access maps while bike is powered up.  On the plus side it was relatively cheap and bike runs as well as the canned map I had on my previous bike.  One day if I change any engine components I'll probably need to get a real dyno tune with a higher end tuner.  All respect to the great tuners on this site, I'm sure you could do better but this has improved my bike without significant cost.  Even though FP3 has now updated to support cams, I'm not sure I'd want to use it for that dramatic of change.  Basically I consider it a stage 1 tuner. JMO worth what you paid for it.

I'd love to see an unbiased evaluation of how well the canned map is running with timing, torque, HP and AFR.  I know GMR offered at one time to do that but have not seen anyone take him up on it.  I totally agree with GMR that its very difficult to hit all the tune cells on the street.

[a206driver]

Let's see. FP3, $299 delivered to my door. Five minutes to read directions, install, choose map, flash. Auto-tune if I wish. Better gas mileage and runs smoother. Calibrate speedometer, done. Change cams, no problem. Change exhaust, no problem. Change map. Auto-tune if I wish. It runs cooler - great. It has more power - great. Let's adjust the throttle response, no problem. All with the FP3 that I started with - great.

Cost of other tuner $XXX, wow that's more expensive than the FP3. I have to Dyno-tune, crap how much is that? $XXX. I have to find a good tuner to do it too, crap shoot. Travel time to there, wait, wait more. How much again? crap $XXX. I was done in five minutes before and didn't have to travel anywhere or find a reputable tuner. OK, cool, I got this cool piece of paper that I can show everyone and post online to show how cool it is and how big my penis is. I want to change cams, crap, Dyno-tune again; how much $XXX. Crap shoot to find a new shop because Fast Freddy isn't there anymore. Travel time, wait, wait more. New piece of paper. Show friends, post online, no one gives a chit. I really want a new exhaust, I give up. Buy new bike and put FP3 on it.

[grc]

Let's see. FP3, $299 delivered to my door. Five minutes to read directions, install, choose map, flash. Auto-tune if I wish. Better gas mileage and runs smoother. Calibrate speedometer, done. Change cams, no problem. Change exhaust, no problem. Change map. Auto-tune if I wish. It runs cooler - great. It has more power - great. Let's adjust the throttle response, no problem. All with the FP3 that I started with - great.

Cost of other tuner $XXX, wow that's more expensive than the FP3. I have to Dyno-tune, crap how much is that? $XXX. I have to find a good tuner to do it too, crap shoot. Travel time to there, wait, wait more. How much again? crap $XXX. I was done in five minutes before and didn't have to travel anywhere or find a reputable tuner. OK, cool, I got this cool piece of paper that I can show everyone and post online to show how cool it is and how big my penis is. I want to change cams, crap, Dyno-tune again; how much $XXX. Crap shoot to find a new shop because Fast Freddy isn't there anymore. Travel time, wait, wait more. New piece of paper. Show friends, post online, no one gives a chit. I really want a new exhaust, I give up. Buy new bike and put FP3 on it.

You forgot the part we see from many people who have opted for the somewhat cheaper "tuning devices" from V&H, Cobra, and others.  When they have problems the canned map and so-called "auto tune" can't fix, they ask for members to wave a magic wand to tell them a simple answer to fix their problems.  Many of us usually advise them to chalk up the loss on the "cheaper and easier" solution to furthering their educations, and then find a full time pro to tune their bike correctly.

Some folks never do more than changing pipes and maybe air cleaners, and are happy with the simple offerings.  If that makes them happy, then that's fine by me and most everyone else around here.  However, when they come back and ask for recommendations on a better solution, many of us will continue to suggest finding a full time fully qualified professional (not your typical Harley shop kind of person) and discuss it with them.  You just  spent over $40k on a motorcycle, why be cheap when it comes to making it run as well as it can and should?

Btw, TTS and PV also offer a selection of canned maps and also offer "auto tuning", as well as many other capabilities and features V&H doesn't.  You don't have to do the dyno tune thing with those if you don't want to either.  So the price difference isn't as much as you imply.

To each his own.

Jerry

[HOGMIKE]

I have taken a different approach since '09.
My last 3 bikes I just waited 'till my local (286 miles away) tuner gets a new bike, tears it apart, puts his pipes and mufflers on it, spends days on the dyno getting it perfect, then, I buy the same bike and make a run over there and say "hook me up"!
Never been disappointed. JMHO
 

[CannonBall]

And what RapM range does the FP3 auto tune?

[TNCarters]

The FP3 attemps to tune the entire RPM/TPS range but it has to load a special tune map into the bike to read the entire range using stock narrow band O2 sensors.  After tuning is done the calculated map readings are written back into a more typical map file and flashed into the bike. The FP3 does not run in autotune mode all the time, its just a temporary mode to refine the VE table for your configuration.  The rider has to make an effort to hit the full range of RPM/TPS cells while riding in autotune which is not an easy task.

[grc]

In other words, the V&H "auto tune" is similar in operation to the "auto tune" offered by TTS and others.  It really isn't fully automatic, it doesn't run constantly, and since the stock narrow band sensors can't accurately read significantly rich or lean mixtures there is a lot of interpolation.  Not the same thing as a full dyno tune using wide band equipment, but better than nothing.

JMHO - Jerry

[Fullsac Performance]

I have taken a different approach since '09.
My last 3 bikes I just waited 'till my local (286 miles away) tuner gets a new bike, tears it apart, puts his pipes and mufflers on it, spends days on the dyno getting it perfect, then, I buy the same bike and make a run over there and say "hook me up"!
Never been disappointed. JMHO
 

That can't work Mike, no two bikes are the same lol.. Only Father Harley can share fuel maps, but that's not what we are talking about. A tampered Harley can only be properly retuned in a surgery suite with fans, probes, egg crates, fresh air and chit like that. Fuel pak, fuel crack, piggy back, all the same smack. If your not flashing the factory ECM your tuning with a dildo, its not real. I suppose one could still feel satisfied if they had never ridden anything better.
I'll pass on the diltune thank you.

Steve@fullsac.com

[HOGMIKE]

Steve:
A trip is in on the calendar for October
Guess I'll have to make a side trip to see you again!!!
 

[Ridgerunr]

"I suppose one could still feel satisfied if they had never ridden anything better."

Exactly 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Steve you might as well give that up.  But  I do think many can picture your .. ahhh..... object you spoke about being firmly inserted into all of these guys that bought into this cheesy blue tooth auto tuners, piggy tuner ,.. one size fits all .. sure is cool.. 

[tervonenllc]

I love FP3 so much that I've started thinking of a tattoo to my lover back: FP3 with the cable going to...

I think somebody asked earlier if I can tell for certain that my bike doesn't "detonate"? Nope, I can't tell as I don't know what it even means. What I do know is that it certainly growls.  This "detonation" is said to be a "silent killer". Well, my bike has 1,5 years warranty left. If there is a sudden death or any kinda problem, I'll use the FP3 return it to factory tune in 30 seconds and then bring it to HD and ask them to fix it. When warranty runs out I'll get another one with warranty.

PS. Would love to see some kinda blind test done FP3 vs. dynoed. Remember those old ads where people were tasting cola drinks. I pretty sure I would be able to pick the one with FP3 every time, just like I'm able to pick Pepsi.