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Custom Vehicle Discussions => CVO™ Road Glide Ultra® => Topic started by: p_borkowski on July 23, 2015, 09:16:24 PM
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Well I've done it now, I had to drill off the head of the outboard right screw holding the windshield on because the brass insert was just spinning in the plastic. What holds the brass insert into the plastic, I've tried pulling and it seems to be in there pretty good. I'm hoping that once i figure out how it's held in HD will have a replacement like they did for the older Electra Glides. This all started because I just got my new 16" Freedom Shield in medium tint, and now the scoot is setting tore apart in the garage.
Ideas???
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Mine did that when new. They replaced the fairing section the w/s screw is inserted into. No kit at that time last fall. During Biketoberfest they were having problems at the Klockwerks booth doing the windshield replacments and would carefully start to loosen the screws then if they didn't come out easily just stop and send you on your way. My right lower fairing has the same problem, three of the same brass inserts spin, just haven't had time to take back to dealer for warranty.
This appears to be caused by overtightening at time of assembly.
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Well I've done it now, I had to drill off the head of the outboard right screw holding the windshield on because the brass insert was just spinning in the plastic. What holds the brass insert into the plastic, I've tried pulling and it seems to be in there pretty good. I'm hoping that once i figure out how it's held in HD will have a replacement like they did for the older Electra Glides. This all started because I just got my new 16" Freedom Shield in medium tint, and now the scoot is setting tore apart in the garage.
Ideas???
The insert here isn't an "insert" at all. It's a wellnut. That's a rubber plug with the insert inside of it. As you tighten it the wellnut expands in its hole and that's what holds it in place. Think of it like a big rubber pop rivet.
If you cut the head off the screw the whole thing will just fall down inside the fairing. Hit a good hardware store and get a replacement. In fact get several. They are cheap (unless you buy them at the bike shop).
To reinstall just start the wellnuts on the screws on the windshield. On enough to let the wellnuts wobble just a bit but not enough to begin expanding the wellnuts. Then set them all in the holes in the fairing. Then tighten (snug) up to attach everything in place.
If you put them loosely in the fairing first you'll just push several on through the holes and will end up with a collection of feral wellnuts laying loose in the bottom of the fairing. The little bastards will reproduce and the young will howl and hiss. It's embarrassing to take your Road Glide out in public with all that commotion inside the fairing.
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Unless it's not a Road Glide..... Then; never mind :drink: .
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Don, the new Road Glides do not have the rubber well-nuts like our old ones. My new one has brass knurled inserts that expand once to fit, then spin if overtightened. Old rubber ones were just to easy.
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CVODON is correct. Almost the same thing happened to me when I went to install my Freedom shield. The brass fitting which retains the screw is spinning in its plastic seat. Not a very good design if you ask me. You can pull the brass out and epoxy it back into its seat. Then you must be very careful when installing the windshield. Otherwise, you can replace the speaker enclosure which is inside the outer fairing. My dealer did that for me under warranty.
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Don, the new Road Glides do not have the rubber well-nuts like our old ones. My new one has brass knurled inserts that expand once to fit, then spin if overtightened. Old rubber ones were just to easy.
Isn't "progress" wonderful?
Jerry
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The biggest risk seems to be not lining the bolt up exactly with the brass fittting, then assuming that the screwing in process is only a little tight at first, and then you find out you've started to cross thread the brass fitting and now maybe the fitting is spinning. I was worried I'd started to do that so I chased the brass threads with a die, then threaded the bolt back into it - very carefully and slowly - WITHOUT the windshield on. Once I knew the bolt was seating properly in the fitting, I backed it out and put that one in first (of the four) through the windshield.
Always start to feed the bolts by fingertip, and carefully feel them threading into the brass fittings. If they don't want to go...DON'T FORCE THEM! Get a flashlight and make sure everthing in the hole is lined up like it should be, then try again. Make sure the threads on the bolts are clean, for crying out loud! Above all, go slow, don't get frustrated, and never assume the bolt is properly screwing in until you've made several revolutions with the bolt into the fitting.
Last piece of advice, don't use a ratchet to screw the bolts back in, start them with your fingers, then continue to tighten carefully with an allen wrench and don't overtighten them! They just need to be snug. Then, check them periodically for tightness, especially if you log a lot of miles.
Lastly...shame on you HD for making such a crappy-ass system on a $40k motorcycle. Is that the best your Rushed more folks could come up with? You should be ASHAMED! :-[
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Don, the new Road Glides do not have the rubber well-nuts like our old ones. My new one has brass knurled inserts that expand once to fit, then spin if overtightened. Old rubber ones were just to easy.
Thanks for the heads up. I'd not had the chance to take the screen off a newer model RG. Will take a close review next time see one up close.
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My klockwerks shield has slots at all the bolt holes. So I never had to take the bolts completely out just loosen them up slide the factory windshield out ,slide the new one in and tighten them up. But I could see where brass threads could easily be messed up by assembly line work environment.
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a couple of drops of MOTORKOTE and the screw will release from the brass nut in seconds,,,give it a try ???
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A good tip for everyone, the first time you pull the screws out, run a 10-32 tap through the brass inserts too clean them up.
The first time i took mine out the screws acted like they were gonna gall up in the brass and get stuck, after tapping they start easier and run in and out smoothly. A tiny bit of anti-sieze or any regular grease will help a ton too.
Make absolutely sure the holes are well aligned before trying to start the screws.
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A good tip for everyone, the first time you pull the screws out, run a 10-32 tap through the brass inserts too clean them up.
The first time i took mine out the screws acted like they were gonna gall up in the brass and get stuck, after tapping they start easier and run in and out smoothly. A tiny bit of anti-sieze or any regular grease will help a ton too.
Make absolutely sure the holes are well aligned before trying to start the screws.
Good tip. Add to it one more thing; always start the screws with your fingers, so you can easily tell if you're starting to cross thread. You will find that instruction in many shop manuals for various products, and it's there for a very good reason.
Sadly, there are other solutions they could have used that wouldn't have allowed the inserts to spin at all. Even the old style in the older bikes would often spin because the sides didn't get a good grip on the plastic. If they don't have enough material thickness and strength to allow for an adequate "clinch", then perhaps they should look at inserts that aren't round but rather have a hex shape or other irregular outer diameter that will lock into a similar shaped hole. Oh yeah, putting a hex shaped hole in the plastic might cost a tiny bit more, so let's not go that route. It's a solution that's been used to secure inserts to relatively thin sheetmetal for ages, for things like mounting big mirrors to doors of trucks, and I've seen similar solutions used in plastic as well.
I'll be waiting to hear about Harley denying warranty claims for this, blaming ham fisted customers for the problem versus admitting the design sucks and their own assembly process probably damaged the inserts initially.
Jerry
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My klockwerks shield has slots at all the bolt holes. So I never had to take the bolts completely out just loosen them up slide the factory windshield out ,slide the new one in and tighten them up. But I could see where brass threads could easily be messed up by assembly line work environment.
The windshield gets installed during dealer prep, not on the assembly line.
These are very easy to cross thread. If I can't turn it in three or four full turns by hand, it comes out and I try again. One on my bike took ten tries before I got it to go in most all the way by hand. One on my wife bike took four tries.
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I guess I wont bitch about the well-nuts any more.
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I guess I wont bitch about the well-nuts any more.
Definitely don't. I still remember, I don't have a clue how many years ago, the first time I took the screen off a Tour Glide (wellnuts like the Road Glide). Of course one of the swelled up wellnuts just turned. Probably several did, but who cares. I said bad words and berated the the ancestry of wellnuts everywhere.
Then.... literally less than a week later, ran in to my first instance of a ruined brass insert on a buddy's bike. Quickly realized I LOVED the sacrificial and (really) easy to use wellnuts. Wellnuts are our friends (just don't buy them at the bike shop). :drink:
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A lot of good tips, and plenty to put fear into the heart of a new RGU owner wanting to try out windshields! :soapbox:
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Every time I hear of this problem, I cringe at the memory of watching the service tech install my windscreen with a cordless drill...
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Every time I hear of this problem, I cringe at the memory of watching the service tech install my windscreen with a cordless drill...
Even is he had the torque setting dialed down I'd certainly be fearful he would overtorque it nonetheless. I'm very careful whenever I remove my shield and my outer fairing even from my bat wing bikes. Those brass inserts are sonic welded into the plastic and while usually pretty stout they can come loose. Had it happen on my '06 on the center of the windshield. Fortunately no problem getting it out and a little JB Weld did the trick. :2vrolijk_21:
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I helped a buddy after he had spun one. I went to lowes and bought a couple slightly different types, did a modification by grinding the diameter of one that had a very course thread on the outside, presumably for wood. Added a dab of epoxy and screwed it into the hole in the fairing, cutting a thread in the plastic. Worked like a charm.
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I took it to the dealer and they told me since I did it I was paying for it, not the warranty. If they fixed it it was $98 an hour. I took it home and fixed it myself, pulled out the insert, tapped the threads and reinstalled with some JB weld. The part I need is $107 and only takes about 45 minutes to get apart. An obtw the new rg fairing is a lot easier to take off than the older style. If it pulls out again I will look for the threaded inserts, those inserts sound like the repair inserts Harley has for the Electra glides. Brass melted into plastic will never be a good idea, just saying. Thanks for all the help everyone. Paul
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i Just posted the same issue to a new thread. I didn't see this one, even though I used the search engine.
Anyway.. How did you guys get that screw out? Did you drill it? I've been turning, prying, etc and I can't get it to come loose. Just keeps spinning.
This is a '15 CVO RGU, so from what I'm reading I have a brass insert on the other side of the fairing that has come loose from something? The speaker box?
I'd really like to know of any other options to get it out.
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I answered in the other thread but, if the screw is still in the female, take something like a screw driver, tape it up so nothing gets scratched and pull it out by putting the screwdriver between the fairing and the chrome trim and use the trim as a lever, once the brass insert spins there isn't anything you can do but pull it out of the inner fairing because the hole it's in is already honed out.
Sounds gruesome but there isn't any way to turn back.
And go slow and easy, like obb said, don't go gorilla on it.