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CVO Technical => Wheels/Tires/Suspension/Brakes => Topic started by: J.D. on June 17, 2017, 09:15:41 PM
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This is one of the few jobs I don't do myself but am considering buying the tools to start doing my own tire changes. Typically I remove the wheels and drop them off at the shop with the new tires but they're up to around $80 labor to mount and balance a set of tires. Anyone doing their own? Any advice on tools and techniques?
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I used to, but then I got old. Now I do like you, remove them from bike and drop off at shop. I do use a shop with electronic balancer, I refuse to pay for bubble balance. I still can do that as well as anyone. Shop I use also is very diligent in cleaning wheel surface prior to appling new wheel weights, otherwise as we all know they fly off.
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I do. Bought a manual tire machine that HD-Dude got too smart to keep using a few years ago.
It is really handy and leaves almost nothing can't do at home now. On my older bikes with a more normal profile 16 to 18 inch tires its a snap. On some of the newer bikes with the wider and lower profile tires it's a freaking chore though. Becomes a two person job (at least) to get the tires on or off the wheels. Causes the saying of many bad words.
It gets done though.
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Here's what I use ... No-Mar model CH200. Works great. Also have a balancer. Check out the videos on the No-Mar website and on YouTube for how-to tips.
https://www.nomartirechanger.com
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I really don't have the room or budget for a proper tire changer and balancer. I'm looking at some good irons and one of those simple axle-style gravity driven balancers. I want to be all-in for about $100. I don't mind struggling through the labor as I don't change tires all that often, but with that said, I have no desire to ruin my wheels or ride on grossly unbalanced tires to save a few bucks. Will/can this approach get the job done or is this a bad idea?
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I really don't have the room or budget for a proper tire changer and balancer. I'm looking at some good irons and one of those simple axle-style gravity driven balancers. I want to be all-in for about $100. I don't mind struggling through the labor as I don't change tires all that often, but with that said, I have no desire to ruin my wheels or ride on grossly unbalanced tires to save a few bucks. Will/can this approach get the job done or is this a bad idea?
I change my own tires by hand with iron/spoons
I got a bead breaker from harbor freight
The Yellowthing bead keeper tool
Use balancing beads to balance the tire and they work great.
Get some of that tire lube/paste from no-mar
Now I can change a tire in about 30 min but the first time it took me a couple hours. Once you learn the art of the drop center it's not that mean of a beast.
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Used to mount my own tires. Newer touring bike tires have stiffer sidewalls, a pain in the butt to mount. Mostly have a shop mount/spin balance them now. If I had access to a better machine, would change my mind. Used NoMar tools. Used a modified Harbor Freight tire changer, had to be welded/shored up and would not waste my money on one of those. Harbor Freight bead breaker works ok.
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All good suggestions. Like that yellow claw doodad. Was looking at a Motion Pro tool that is a combo spoons/levers and bead breaker. Looks like it works well, on YouTube anyway. Can you break a bead with a couple of big C-clamps in a pinch? Never seen those beads before. Does this work better than balancing with weights? What's "the art of the drop center"?
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I'm happy to have and pay someone else to do it. Why would I want to change and balance tires? Let the guys with the tire machine have all the fun. Call me when it's done. Stuart.
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All good suggestions. Like that yellow claw doodad. Was looking at a Motion Pro tool that is a combo spoons/levers and bead breaker. Looks like it works well, on YouTube anyway. Can you break a bead with a couple of big C-clamps in a pinch? Never seen those beads before. Does this work better than balancing with weights? What's "the art of the drop center"?
they are called Dyna Beads and work very well. C-clamps could work but they will have to be big. Breaking the bead without the proper tool is a difficult task.
"Drop Center" is referred to as the center part of the wheel which has a smaller circumference than the outter ridge where the bead seals. While spooning over the final segment of the tire, positioning the opposite end the tire as close to the drop center of the wheel will allow tire to slip over the wheel with the minimal amount of stress. Also, at this point is where the lube paste does it magic.
I also use the lube paste on the wheel during the final slide of removing the tire.
FYI....take the brake rotor off the wheel, it can be done with them on, but just one mishap and you will be buying new ones.
also if possible, i will lay the new tire in the sun to warm up the tire to make it alittle more pliable.
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This is one of the few jobs I don't do myself but am considering buying the tools to start doing my own tire changes. Typically I remove the wheels and drop them off at the shop with the new tires but they're up to around $80 labor to mount and balance a set of tires. Anyone doing their own? Any advice on tools and techniques?
I'm a bit out of the norm on this one, I have the coats tire machine and Snap-On spin balancer in the garage available 24/7. Guess I'm spoiled. I help out a few folks on and off as needed. Gives me a hobby for a few months, usually between April and July. That $80 for two wheels really gets my attention!
I've worked on wheels that people have changed the tires themselves, need to be careful, those things are expensive and easily damaged. As stated, the thicker sidewalls and lower the profile the harder to change no matter what the equipment.
Whatever you choose, good luck!
Brad
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I'm a bit out of the norm on this one, I have the coats tire machine and Snap-On spin balancer in the garage available 24/7. Guess I'm spoiled. I help out a few folks on and off as needed. Gives me a hobby for a few months, usually between April and July. That $80 for two wheels really gets my attention!
I've worked on wheels that people have changed the tires themselves, need to be careful, those things are expensive and easily damaged. As stated, the thicker sidewalls and lower the profile the harder to change no matter what the equipment.
Whatever you choose, good luck!
Brad
:znotworthy:
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some (now defunct) forums I've seen have had threads like this where guys would post up where they are and offer to either change people's tires or if nothing else, allow someone else to come over and use the changer they have.
I've considered getting one. Around Houston anyways, shops REALLY frown (to the point of being a jerk about it) if you even mention bringing in your own tire. I can see their side though. It's tough when you can get a tire online for 1/2 the shop price. And a lot of shops charge a mount fee of $80 in addition to that double price.
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Yep the dealer will reluctantly do the job bringing in my own wheels and 3rd party tires. I'm super meticulous about removing and installing the wheels, but if I were to have any sort of issue with the tire after I leave I'm sure I'd be SOL. Last install was the one that sent me over the edge. I brought in Commander IIs as the dealer doesn't carry anything besides Dunlops and the told me that the tires are too stiff for a Harley wheel and they needed to install a tube in order to seat the bead on the rear wheel. Rotor and pulley were all scraped up from their monkeys beating on it. Honestly I can't imagine the results of DIY to possibly be worse.
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I purchased a NO-Mar a few years ago and have changed a bunch of tires. I haven't had any trouble removing any kind of tire but installing a new Dunlop for the rear can be a real ball buster at times. I end up spooning it on by hand. Metzlers are a snap, I haven't changed any tires to my new/used 2001 Valkyrie but heard they can be real tough. If I had to do it again I would just get the good hand tools that were recommended. I had 2 rims damaged by dealers, not fun.
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I removed/replaced tires/ balanced on a stand for 6 rear tires and 3 front tires using hand tire tools and a balancing stand that has two disc on each side of the axle. When I turned 60, I started removing the tires from bike and reinstall but I let a shop change and balance them now. Front tire not so bad, rear tires suck.
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Three tire irons is all that is needed. A bedbreaker is nice to especially since its difficult to use the side stand to break the bead on a HD.
But as I get older and lazier the next tirechange will probably be done at a dealer ship.
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Hard to imagine life without my no-mar tire machine. I use dyna beads for balancing
:bananarock:
TN
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Harbor Freight tire changer, mojo blocks and bar, Yellow tire thing and Dyna beads.
Works great. Used it on the CVO a couple times and the BMW GSA with knobbies to street I have done the front and back a bunch of times.
A couple of friends Harleys.
It is easy to do solo if you do it correct, pain in the rear if you try and muscle it.
Keep the bead of the tire in the lowest portion of the rim and use some sort of tire lube!
Also helps to leave the tire in the sun, but not necessary.
Lots of videos on youtube to help.
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Thanks for all of the replies. I have the confidence to do my own tire changes now and am willing to struggle through it and figure it out, with keen attention to not damaging the wheels. I think I have everything identified that I need except I haven't decided yet on the bead breaker. I am very space constrained so I really cannot go with a proper tire changing machine or even a larger lever-style bead breaker. What is the next best thing from a bead breaker perspective? The Motion Pro combo tire levers / bead breaker? The motion Pro plastic "wedge" tool that gets tapped in with a deadblow hammer? The "claw" looking bead breakers that use either screw or lever force to sort of "pinch" the opposing beads together? I will only be doing "standard" tires and not more modern low-profile and/or x-large diameter wheels.
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Revisiting an older thread...
Finally have the wheels removed and have been working on my "DIY on the cheap" strategy. Ended up using a 6" C-clamp I had in the toolbox with Windex and a block of wood to break the beads. That couldn't have been any easier and didn't leave even the slightest mark on the wheels.
Here's what I have so far:
- 5-gallon pail with rubber tubing around the lip to safely hold the wheel
- Windex and C-Clamp for breaking beads
- Tire valve tools (core remover, stem tool)
- Wheel bearing remover/installation tool (if needed)
- A good set of balls
Here's what I think I need to buy for removal and installation of the tires:
- 3x of Ken-Tool 32116 16" Tire Irons for tire removal and installation
- 2x (4 total) of Motion Pro 08-0546 RimShield II
- No-Mar drop center positioning tool
- No-Mar yellow claw
- No-Mar tire bead lube
- Pit Posse PP2903 Motorcycle Wheel Balancer Portable Tire Balancing Kit (set on top of jack stands)
- Chrome adhesive wheel weights (decided against the beads - just personal preference)
Any flaws in this plan?
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Although I seldom pay any attention to young bike techs but a local shop here known for Saturday tire mounting for a small amount used to be $15 each and has grown to $40 but that includes remove from bike, mounting and balancing and reinstall. I was in there last Saturday and they will NOT put Dyna beads in a bike that has a tire pressure monitor system. If you demand them they will turn you away. They do recommend Dyna for everything else. They said everytime they used them it resulted in later having to remove them (at there expense) due to complaints with inconsistent readings of the tire pressure system. FYI
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Revisiting an older thread...
Any flaws in this plan?
With some of the stiff sidewall and low profile tires you're still going to find it very difficult if not impossible to get the tires off the wheels. Even more so to do it without damaging the wheels. I've got a manual tire machine that allows good leverage. Even with it getting some of the tires off the wheels is a very difficult task.
For all the items you're collecting and the expense you're going to you are still somewhat just half-assing the job. Good luck with it but be careful. Breaking the bead from the wheel is not close to half the battle so be careful as you work forward. If you're working with a low profile tire on a late model bike you have many many bad words in utterance ahead of you. If it's the 2002 vintage you username suggests it's a do-able task though. Have done many many of those size/type with typical spoons, leverage and only the occasional foul language to get the job done.
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Roger that :2vrolijk_21:
I ordered some of those levers and rim shields. Not very expensive. If I can get the tires off I'll order the rest of the stuff to install the new ones. If not, I'm not going to risk damage to the wheels and will just take them over to the dealer and pay the (gulp) $80-100.
I see on the No-Mar website that they DON'T recommend that drop center tool for Harley wheels, so I didn't order it. I'll see of I can use a knee on the bottom of the tire to hold it low then use the levers and shields on the opposite side.
In about a week or two I'll report back if this was a good idea or not LOL.
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On the newer, stiffer tires, it helps to have 2 people when doing a manual tire change. It can resemble wrestling a bear at times. Good luck.
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Nope, not running them new fangdangled fancy pants low profile tires and big rims. 1960s technology at best :jester:
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Although I seldom pay any attention to young bike techs but a local shop here known for Saturday tire mounting for a small amount used to be $15 each and has grown to $40 but that includes remove from bike, mounting and balancing and reinstall. I was in there last Saturday and they will NOT put Dyna beads in a bike that has a tire pressure monitor system. If you demand them they will turn you away. They do recommend Dyna for everything else. They said everytime they used them it resulted in later having to remove them (at there expense) due to complaints with inconsistent readings of the tire pressure system. FYI
I used to be concerned about this... but I now have personally used dyna beads on three different front and rear sets on my BMW GSA with tire pressure read outs and have not personally experienced any problems. Not saying I won't in the future or someone else will not have a problem...but so far 3 different sets of tires and not one problem using dyna beads.
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I'm really hoping it's as easy as this guy makes it look:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DjQZM402U2x4&ved=0ahUKEwi9u_fX8rvXAhWm3oMKHShsCnMQtwIIOzAH&usg=AOvVaw0C1Tg2Wva7odU4YPdmxVCW (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DjQZM402U2x4&ved=0ahUKEwi9u_fX8rvXAhWm3oMKHShsCnMQtwIIOzAH&usg=AOvVaw0C1Tg2Wva7odU4YPdmxVCW)
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Who has the best online pricing for current stock major brand (Michelin, Avon) tires? Last couple sets I ordered from J&P but it's been awhile since I looked at other vendors.
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eBay chaperell not sure on the spelling is one motorcycle tire wherehouse is another
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Who has the best online pricing for current stock major brand (Michelin, Avon) tires? Last couple sets I ordered from J&P but it's been awhile since I looked at other vendors.
The last few times that I shopped / bought Tires, the least expensive, with the best selection, has been;
http://www.americanmototire.com/catalog/
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Thanks. So I'm down to choosing either Dunlop American Elite or Michelin Commander II. Leaning toward the latter, although some online claim they are stiffer and more difficult to mount.
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The last few times that I shopped / bought Tires, the least expensive, with the best selection, has been;
http://www.americanmototire.com/catalog/
Checked J&P, Dennis Kirk, Amazon, Bike Bandit, 2Wheel, and americanmototire - you are correct, they have the best price. Thanks for the info :orange: :mango: :apple: :carrot: :jalapeno: :cucumber: :pineapple: :pepper:
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Thanks. So I'm down to choosing either Dunlop American Elite or Michelin Commander II. Leaning toward the latter, although some online claim they are stiffer and more difficult to mount.
Several Manufacturers are stiffening the sidewalls for safety reasons,,, going towards "run-flat" capability... not quite there yet,, but headed that way...
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Thanks. So I'm down to choosing either Dunlop American Elite or Michelin Commander II. Leaning toward the latter, although some online claim they are stiffer and more difficult to mount.
The Commander II tires are definitely a stiffer sidewall and harder to mount/dismount. Have done several and it's a noticeable difference.
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Gotta love Amazon Prime. Tire spoons and rim shields arrived this morning. Like a kid on Christmas morning, couldn't wait to open the box. Hmmm, I say to myself, ya know, the wheels are still sitting in the garage with my tubing-clad bucket and bottle of Windex. Maybe I'll just throw on my slippers and kinda check out if the rim shields fit on and which way these spoons get oriented.
Shields pop right on and fit like they were made for this wheel. Recalling my extensive training and education on the job (ok one YouTube video) I get what I think is the correct orientation of the spoons and space them a few inches apart from each other. The drop center of the opposite side is very easy to feel with a little tug.
Ok will try this later.
Well that plan lasted all of 10 seconds before I grabbed the Windex bottle and sprayed down the bead. Popped those irons back in over the shields and gave them a simultaneous tug (yep, just like the guy did it on the aforementioned YouTube video). Pop, right over the lip of the rim. One more "nibble" on either side and 1st bead completely off. Repeat for second bead, even easier.
So, never removing a motorcycle tire from a wheel before I was able to remove both in literally under 10 minutes with absolutely no sweat whatsoever (in my slippers to boot). I can't believe I've been paying the dealer $100/hour to do this.
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Gotta love Amazon Prime. Tire spoons and rim shields arrived this morning. Like a kid on Christmas morning, couldn't wait to open the box. Hmmm, I say to myself, ya know, the wheels are still sitting in the garage with my tubing-clad bucket and bottle of Windex. Maybe I'll just throw on my slippers and kinda check out if the rim shields fit on and which way these spoons get oriented.
Shields pop right on and fit like they were made for this wheel. Recalling my extensive training and education on the job (ok one YouTube video) I get what I think is the correct orientation of the spoons and space them a few inches apart from each other. The drop center of the opposite side is very easy to feel with a little tug.
Ok will try this later.
Well that plan lasted all of 10 seconds before I grabbed the Windex bottle and sprayed down the bead. Popped those irons back in over the shields and gave them a simultaneous tug (yep, just like the guy did it on the aforementioned YouTube video). Pop, right over the lip of the rim. One more "nibble" on either side and 1st bead completely off. Repeat for second bead, even easier.
So, never removing a motorcycle tire from a wheel before I was able to remove both in literally under 10 minutes with absolutely no sweat whatsoever (in my slippers to boot). I can't believe I've been paying the dealer $100/hour to do this.
Easy money.....
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Worst part is, the dealer is 1/2 hour away, which meant 2 hours of driving on top of the labor bill.
Just ordered the remaining tools on my list (less the drop center tool and tires). Probably won't order and install the tires until next season so this thread will likely go dormant again for 4-5 months.
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Gotta love Amazon Prime. Tire spoons and rim shields arrived this morning. Like a kid on Christmas morning, couldn't wait to open the box. Hmmm, I say to myself, ya know, the wheels are still sitting in the garage with my tubing-clad bucket and bottle of Windex. Maybe I'll just throw on my slippers and kinda check out if the rim shields fit on and which way these spoons get oriented.
Shields pop right on and fit like they were made for this wheel. Recalling my extensive training and education on the job (ok one YouTube video) I get what I think is the correct orientation of the spoons and space them a few inches apart from each other. The drop center of the opposite side is very easy to feel with a little tug.
Ok will try this later.
Well that plan lasted all of 10 seconds before I grabbed the Windex bottle and sprayed down the bead. Popped those irons back in over the shields and gave them a simultaneous tug (yep, just like the guy did it on the aforementioned YouTube video). Pop, right over the lip of the rim. One more "nibble" on either side and 1st bead completely off. Repeat for second bead, even easier.
So, never removing a motorcycle tire from a wheel before I was able to remove both in literally under 10 minutes with absolutely no sweat whatsoever (in my slippers to boot). I can't believe I've been paying the dealer $100/hour to do this.
Nice. It's really all about having the right slippers.
Plus if doing the deed with a normal sidewall that's not too stiff this is a an easy job; if you've got the right slippers.
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Hey why not have warm, clean feet when the job is done? :bananarock:
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Sounds like a great deal. Where in FL is this shop?
Although I seldom pay any attention to young bike techs but a local shop here known for Saturday tire mounting for a small amount used to be $15 each and has grown to $40 but that includes remove from bike, mounting and balancing and reinstall. I was in there last Saturday and they will NOT put Dyna beads in a bike that has a tire pressure monitor system. If you demand them they will turn you away. They do recommend Dyna for everything else. They said everytime they used them it resulted in later having to remove them (at there expense) due to complaints with inconsistent readings of the tire pressure system. FYI
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Ended up ordering the Commander II set from americanmototire.com. Shipped same day with 2-day transit. Fresh inventory with mid-late 2017 date codes. Noted the sidewalls have "MADE IN THAILAND" molded in, and the lightest/heaviest spot isn't marked. Tires still look like top quality, but if I had it to do over I'd order the American-made Dunlops.
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Finally got around to mounting the new tires today. It was much easier than expected, comically easy in fact, and even easier than removing the old ones. The simple tools I bought worked perfectly. The tires practically slid right on using that mounting grease. Setting the tires out in 90F sun for 1/2 hour probably helped. Tires themselves were pretty evenly balanced as the heavy spot was in the same place as it was on the rim itself. Balancing took some time and patience but the results seem good (although I won't know for sure until on the highway).
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Well I'm going to call this a success. New tires are smoother than ever and feel balanced at highway speeds (and haven't lost any wheel weights). Wear patterns look centered and good. No problems or any apparent issues whatsoever.
Installed new brake pads as part of the job. Cleaned the calipers up with brake cleaner and bled fresh DOT5 through both systems. Brakes are nice and firm and stop well. I should be good for another 10-15k.