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CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: redtwin on February 22, 2018, 10:22:37 AM
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Looking for some input on this Dyno done by six bends HD looks low on numbers to me but?
2018 Road King special
114 stage 4
TTS master tuner
RCX Tormetor 2-1-2 header
RCX 4" mufflers
SE Ventalator air cleaner
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Yes, the HP number looks low compared to what Harley claims for the Stage IV 114 kit, 115 HP versus 122 HP. Max torque is the same but at different rpm. What does it mean? Could be as simple as the difference between your choice of exhaust compared to the high flow Harley exhaust they use in their tests. I'll leave it to the experts to analyze. Attached are the charts from the SE Catalog for reference.
Jerry
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Your Chart.
Jerry
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Yes this is my chart,Thanks for the input,I was putting the loss of HP on the SE air cleaner
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Looking for some input on this Dyno done by six bends HD looks low on numbers to me but?
2018 Road King special
114 stage 4
TTS master tuner
RCX Tormetor 2-1-2 header
RCX 4" mufflers
SE Ventalator air cleaner
Nothing wrong with 1 HP per cube. But the torque loss is criminal.
Steve@fullsac.com
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The graph matches the blue line highlighted within the H-D literature pretty closely to my eyes. The slightly lower numbers aren't significant enough IMHO to believe there is some major issue or error.
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To each his own, but I would have an issue paying all that money for a stage IV kit with 114 pistons, CNC heads, 64 TB ect
that made way less HP and TQ below 3500 RPM than a stock 107 with a pipe. Any loss in low end TQ is unacceptable.
We are seeing a major TQ loss below 3500 with the 114 chart when compared to the 107 chart below.
Steve@fullsac.com
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Not saying I like the Stage IV curves, just saying there is a close resemblance between the two.
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Not saying I like the Stage IV curves, just saying there is a close resemblance between the two.
Understood. I quess if you look at it that way, he got what was advertised.
Steve@fullsac.com
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What cam? 515?
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The way the HP and TRQ both have a dip inthe lower ranges I would check for sumping.
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What cam? 515?
Yes.
Jerry
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The way the HP and TRQ both have a dip inthe lower ranges I would check for sumping.
The curves supplied by Harley in the catalog have a huge dip as well. IMHO it's another poorly designed kit from Harley, and another good reason for serious performance seekers to go to the aftermarket. Steve from Fullsac is right, it's a lot of money for an unacceptable result. Unfortunately Harley has folks over a barrel, which is something they've enjoyed doing for ages, because aftermarket solutions will void the factory warranty but Harley will cover their own kits.
Jerry
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The stage 4's I have done with the 515 show the same result on the bottom. Kind of like the 259E they pushed with everything.
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The curves supplied by Harley in the catalog have a huge dip as well. IMHO it's another poorly designed kit from Harley, and another good reason for serious performance seekers to go to the aftermarket. Steve from Fullsac is right, it's a lot of money for an unacceptable result. Unfortunately Harley has folks over a barrel, which is something they've enjoyed doing for ages, because aftermarket solutions will void the factory warranty but Harley will cover their own kits.
Jerry
That is why I never do Harley kits. And your right now with the tighter warranty its hard not to do Harley if you want Warranty.
The stage 4's I have done with the 515 show the same result on the bottom. Kind of like the 259E they pushed with everything.
The Harley 117 kit for the 110 the 259E was a bad cam choice as the kit did not have enough compression for that cam. I built a 110 motor using the 259E with a 10.8 compression and head work. It was 122 HP and 124 Torque. The cam works well went the rest of the parts match it. However Harley kits don't.
When I built mu 117, all I used from HD were the cylinders.
When I do an M8 it won't be a Harley kit.
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I started out with warranty with this kit but you are all right about low end,it's a turd up till 3000 rpm.looking at going with the tts 200 in the near future also looking at woods cams I like what I see from both,I live in SW Florida so my next choice in tuner will be Cycle Rama or Docs
Also looking at CR cams
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Try Mark at Cycle Dynamics - he’s in Boyton Beach, he’d be the guy to go see. Does a great job!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180228/19053fbb13b0455a8096718390a2ac21.jpg)
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I know alot of people complain on bere abouts mods and voiding the warranty. Here is the wY my dealer explained it to me.
Harley is a vehicle manufacturer and therefore they are governed by EPA compliance regulations. They were sued and settled with the EPA. You cannot go and. Uy a new Corvette and ask the Chevy dealer to remove the emissions devices and reprogram the engine to no longer comply with clean air standards. They will void your warranty as well.
If they do not “say” that they will void your warranty, then they condone what mods you made and that makes them as guilty as if they did the work. Most of us have a good relationship with our selling dealers and they will take car of us. At least I feel that way about mine.
Do not blame Harley. They bent the rules for years longer than other manufacturers and finally got shut down. Point the blame squarely at the Federal Government and more precisely the former President Barak Hussein Obama. He pushed for all of this and declared war on everybody that did not agree. (i.e. the coal industry).
Harley performance will catch up with the strides of the big 3 automakers combining power and performance within EPA guidlines. Just look at Dodge Hellcats and Demons. The Milwaukee 8 design began about 10 years ago and the engine is capable of accomodating up to a 130+ cubic inch displacement. The good stuff is coming.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Try Mark at Cycle Dynamics - he’s in Boyton Beach, he’d be the guy to go see. Does a great job!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180228/19053fbb13b0455a8096718390a2ac21.jpg)
The absolute best I've found. ;)
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So finally got her up on the Dyno just to see. New 2018 RGU with 114ci Stg 4 installed before pick up and 1000mile break in completed. HD Stage 4 114ci kit. Stock air cleaner cover with stage 1 kit, Scream'n eagle Head pipe and street cannons mufflers, HD EPA Compliant tuner & HD Pro tuner. Blue line is what it was putting out and still climbing (107.02hp & 111.03 ft-lbs) when it hit the speed limiter at about 5200 rpms. So after talking to my shop, He un-hooked the speed sensor and ran her again up to redline. Red Line run was 120.08 Hp & 109.81 ft-lbs. Yes with a better tuner it will run 100% better, but I have to keep the warrantee as long as I can on this one. Said hell with it on the last bike an basically bought it twice over. not bad in my book for being handcuffed by the man hahahaha
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All the new void stuff is crazy. What was the correction factor for this dynojet pull? or what does it make SAE
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I changed exhaust back to screaming eagle high flow with street cannons that I modified,
Definitely can tell the difference,printer was not working right said he would print a new copy when
He got it fixed
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This is the previous run,