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[FLTRCVO]

Norseman you might be more successful if you document the chronology of events include names, titles and Dealerships send them to the President and CEO of Harley Davidson via Certified Mail prior to shelling out money for an attorney. The Lemon Law Lemonade isn't as sweet as advertised and you never totally win.

[SHRADER]

Sounds like the coil or plug wire is shot. If they have replaced basically every other component in the fuel/electrical firing system, they may have also checked or replaced these too, but you night ask to make sure. If the rear cylinder coil or wire Has only a partial connection or output it would explain why it's only firing above 3k. If it's not firing all the time then the o2 sensor would be out of range as is the case you described.

[longlast]

Change the plugs FIRST go from there.

[grc]

Sounds like the coil or plug wire is shot. If they have replaced basically every other component in the fuel/electrical firing system, they may have also checked or replaced these too, but you night ask to make sure. If the rear cylinder coil or wire Has only a partial connection or output it would explain why it's only firing above 3k. If it's not firing all the time then the o2 sensor would be out of range as is the case you described.

I really can't wrap my head around how they have been trying to fix this.  If the bike is basically sputtering and barely running below 3000 rpm, they should be able to duplicate that condition easily while having all the diagnostic tools connected.  The plugs are either firing or they are not, the injectors are pulsing or they are not, etc.  Then let's take a look at compression on the cylinder that isn't running worth chit.  It takes four things to make it run; air, fuel, spark, and compression.  And of course those all need to be in correct amounts and occur at the correct time.  Every bit of it is measureable.  And yet they just stand back and throw parts at it, changing some not only once but twice in the case of the ECM.  I think it's time to try the method almost certain to fix the problem; jack up the tank and slide a new bike under it. 

Jerry

[NORSEMAN]

Norseman you might be more successful if you document the chronology of events include names, titles and Dealerships send them to the President and CEO of Harley Davidson via Certified Mail prior to shelling out money for an attorney. The Lemon Law Lemonade isn't as sweet as advertised and you never totally win.

I've done so.  A couple weeks back, after feeling that this issue wouldn't be resolved in a timely manner, I had sent letters to HD customer service, HD finance, and the dealer, letting them know my concerns and advising that I understand and retain my rights with regards to the VA lemon law.  The dealer and Harley Davidson Motor Company have had over a month to do the right thing, and have made the choice not to.  Instead, they think it's perfectly reasonable to keep throwing parts at the bike until it eventually runs; regardless of how long it takes to remedy the issue.

The dealer is Black Bear Harley Davidson in Wytheville, VA.  The owner is Charlie Cole, who also has other dealerships in the region.  I suspect Charlie is the one who made the call to MoCo, to request the field service technicians be dispatched to his shop.  I understand that every company who manufactures something will experience a failure at some point in time.  I understand that sometimes the failure can be difficult to diagnose and repair.  However, this is a top of the line motorcycle, nearly new with about 4K miles on the odometer, and it's been in the repair shop for 30 days since purchased in July.  I fully expected the dealer and MoCo to stand behind their product, and get me back on two wheels in a reasonable amount of time.  I think that a reasonable time-to-recovery has transpired, and the customer (me) should be made whole. 

They replaced most of the major sub-systems and components; plugs, O2 sensor, ECM (twice), BCM, fashioned a temporary ground to the ECM to check for a bad harness ground, fuel pump, induction module, lifters, cams, and the main wiring harness.  The main wiring harness is like the "hail mary" of diagnostics; they do that when they're out of all other options.  Their plan, now, is to ring the harness out wire by wire, checking connectors and components along the way, for anything related to a code that's been thrown. 

The lemon law remedy isn't something I'm keen to do, but perhaps asserting my rights under law could help someone else in the future.  As for me, I'm considering this an expensive lesson.  One that I will not repeat. 

[NORSEMAN]

I've never heard of Harley not being able to figure out what is wrong with a malfunctioning engine like your story over 4 weeks, specially on a new bike. You said they"So far, they've replaced the spark plugs, O2 sensor, ECM (twice), BCM, fuel pump, induction module, lifters, camshafts, and main wiring harness." That's so crazy because they should be able to figure out if you have a spark or if your ecm was bad or your bike was starved for fuel. Then changing lifters/ cams would mean manufacturing issues with those components. As they were pulling these parts off, were they defective or not? How many miles are on the bike and is it bone stock? P codes are of course ECM/ICM related. I assume when you said BCM, you meant ICM (ignition control module). No matter, good luck. Hope you get it figured out.

Bone stock. Not even slipons.  I'm a big mileage rider, who rides in any weather. I haven't even put highway pegs on it yet, and I've been from VA to WI and back on the bike. I did plan on adding some goodies but I wanted to put some miles on it before I made any decisions.

None of the components replaced have been found to be faulty.


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[NORSEMAN]

I really can't wrap my head around how they have been trying to fix this.  If the bike is basically sputtering and barely running below 3000 rpm, they should be able to duplicate that condition easily while having all the diagnostic tools connected.  The plugs are either firing or they are not, the injectors are pulsing or they are not, etc.  Then let's take a look at compression on the cylinder that isn't running worth chit.  It takes four things to make it run; air, fuel, spark, and compression.  And of course those all need to be in correct amounts and occur at the correct time.  Every bit of it is measureable.  And yet they just stand back and throw parts at it, changing some not only once but twice in the case of the ECM.  I think it's time to try the method almost certain to fix the problem; jack up the tank and slide a new bike under it. 

Jerry

They've taken it out with the data logger, capturing recordings as it sputters and lurches.  i was told that the data didn't show any specific faults.  I'm relying on the factory certified technicians to repair the bike.  Thus far, everything they've tried has been unsuccessful.  The field service tech said he's never come across anything like this.  They are supposedly going to start inspecting every wire, connector and component related to any code thrown.  Maybe they'll figure it out today; maybe next year.  Who knows? 

[sadunbar]

Is the crank sensor among the parts they have thrown at it?

[JC]

Why would they not have changed the TB and injectors? Seems to me it may be a fuel delivery problem, or you have a valve that is sticking.

[GRam]

What I'm amazed at is the fact the factory is flying this FST out and back, rinse and repeat, throwing parts at it
and hoping something sticks..
Cost-wise, it would have been waayyy cheaper to hand OP a new bike, and shipped the dud back to factory
for deconstruction/analysis. "We'll save money, no matter HOW MUCH it costs.." Solid thinking there MOCO, bravo.

[RonandJanet]

Not only is this cheaper the consumer is happy and will tell others what great service they got!  The best part is that once they figure it out they will know either what to fix on other bikes or how to prevent this on other bikes. Either way a root cause analysis is very valuable.

[Rooster]

The thing that worries me is they send out the so called experts who do nothing more than the dealer and just continue to throw parts at it HOPING to get it right. Where is the REAL expert that knows how to solve the issue? I agree with someone's previous comment that they hope you will give up and trade for another of their fine offerings.

[grc]

They've taken it out with the data logger, capturing recordings as it sputters and lurches.  i was told that the data didn't show any specific faults.  I'm relying on the factory certified technicians to repair the bike.  Thus far, everything they've tried has been unsuccessful.  The field service tech said he's never come across anything like this.  They are supposedly going to start inspecting every wire, connector and component related to any code thrown.  Maybe they'll figure it out today; maybe next year.  Who knows?

One thing that has been a concern since the 110 was launched, and I don't see anything mentioned about H-D checking this out, is exhaust valves and guides.  If the exhaust valve is sticking and not fully closing in the cylinder throwing the codes, they can throw all the wiring and ECM's and BCM's in Harley's inventory at the bike and they won't fix it.  And that's just one possibility I pulled out of my nether regions based on the history of the engine since 2007.  One might hope Harley employees would know about this and other potential issues with that model engine.  As I noted previously, it's all about fuel, air, spark, and compression.  A compression and leak down test would have been one of my first steps when a simple fix wasn't forthcoming after hooking up their electronic diagnostic gear.  I see way too much dependence these days on the automated diagnostic tools and routines, and not enough logical analysis by the guy supposedly doing the diagnostics.  It's not just Harley shops, it's cars and trucks, HVAC, appliances, computers, you name it.  When the software tools can't point directly to the faulty part to be replaced, way too many "techs" are lost.  Obviously that also applies to the "factory tech".

Jerry

[Rooster]

Yes Jerry, big difference between a Technician and a Parts Changer. I found out years ago when I found to many parts on my shelves that had been installed and put back in the box. Then went looking for a Technician for a replacement.

[NORSEMAN]

Well, today they figured it out. It was the rear coil pack.  The second field service guy was the one who figured it out.


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