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[Texas 103]

Was just curious if anyone has heard of a Retro - Fit " Scissor Gear" kit  for the 2016 and  prior 6 speeds to take care of the neutral rattle like they did on the '17's.? 

Maybe we could   take a page  right out of  Ole Hubbard's book..Pull the top off ,  pour a can of STP in there and throw in a handful of sawdust , ride it like you stole it...maybe that will keep it quiet..Just kidding...damn that's annoying. Have a reasonably quiet 110.when the clutch is pulled in! Greg

[Texas 103]

Was just curious if anyone has heard of a Retro - Fit " Scissor Gear" kit  for the 2016 and  prior 6 speeds to take care of the neutral rattle like they did on the '17's.? 

Maybe we could   take a page  right out of  Ole Hubbard's book..Pull the top off ,  pour a can of STP in there and throw in a handful of sawdust , ride it like you stole it...maybe that will keep it quiet..Just kidding...damn that's annoying. Have a reasonably quiet 110.when the clutch is pulled in! Greg

Found out the  '17 Scissor Gear that supposedly quiets the rattle is   is $59.00 . It's listed as first gear. What I don't know is will it just drop in or?  Thinking about a  little winter garage therapy...just for the hell of it

[1roadking]

Interested to know keep us posted.

[Texas 103]

Interested to know keep us posted.

Will do ..I was chatting with a sharp lady at Jim's yesterday about the rattle  and their their trap door and she mentioned a shifter fork rattle  also because the clearances on the shifter shafts may be loose. She mentioned that because when you buy the  Jim's trap  door ( $275),it comes with new shafts. Interesting, when they do a build they use HD forks and their ( Jim's )shifter shafts.   

 She also mentioned that when you have the gear set out you can manually shake the shifter forks with your hand see if it might  be that ,along with the gear slack in the 1st gear pair.   Worth a shot for $350 to so.   

[Texas 103]

Went to HD today and ordered the gear. Part # 35600103 $59.76 .   Was chatting with my tech about this idea , told him what I wanted to do and he doesn't see  why it won't work. Said just stay with the stock trap door for now rather than spend another $300 or so on a trap door.

 I'll just pull the gear set ,change 1st  gear on the  counter shaft only along  new trap door bearings and see if that quiets it down. Think I can do that for around $100 in parts  and we'll see what we can see! It's worth it to me to quiet it down.     

[LMH]

Went to HD today and ordered the gear. Part # 35600103 $59.76 .   Was chatting with my tech about this idea , told him what I wanted to do and he doesn't see  why it won't work. Said just stay with the stock trap door for now rather than spend another $300 or so on a trap door.

 I'll just pull the gear set ,change 1st  gear on the  counter shaft only along  new trap door bearings and see if that quiets it down. Think I can do that for around $100 in parts  and we'll see what we can see! It's worth it to me to quiet it down.   

Anyone know if Texas 103 had any luck with this fix? Might be nice if I could suggest a fix when I am confronted with a HD Tech down the road.

[Texas 103]

Anyone know if Texas 103 had any luck with this fix? Might be nice if I could suggest a fix when I am confronted with a HD Tech down the road.

YOur timing is pretty good!. Just got the gear this morning, Fixin to start on it..I will make a post with pics and comments

Picked up gear this morning..very interesting! ..Had a chat with my HD tech showed him the gear. THE scissor part is spring loaded and designed to take up the slack between the low gear pair. Told me there was quite a bit, may be totally wrong here..but I'm thinking the reason we have this rattle now is maybe HD changed gear vendors ??  Below are three pics showing  the gear and the indexing dots I call them,

 It is definally  spring loaded and can see why it should take up the excess lash between low gear pairs. Not sure how to install yet, but my tech at HD will as he has the  '17 manual.   
 

[Texas 103]

YOur timing is pretty good!. Just got the gear this morning, Fixin to start on it..I will make a post with pics and comments

Picked up gear this morning..very interesting! ..Had a chat with my HD tech showed him the gear. THE scissor part is spring loaded and designed to take up the slack between the low gear pair. Told me there was quite a bit, may be totally wrong here..but I'm thinking the reason we have this rattle now is maybe HD changed gear vendors ??  Below are three pics showing  the gear and the indexing dots I call them,

 It is definally  spring loaded and can see why it should take up the excess lash between low gear pairs. Not sure how to install yet, but my tech at HD will as he has the  '17 manual.   
 

[Texas 103]

Your timing is pretty good!. Just got the gear this morning, Fixin to start on it.. Bike only has 5000 miles on it but while I have it down, we are going to install new trap door bearings and new primary bearing. Probably not a damn thing wrong with either but a small price to pay for peace of mind.   

Picked up gear this morning..very interesting! ..Had a chat with my HD tech showed him the gear, he's thinking it will fix it. . The scissor part is spring loaded and designed to take up the slack between the low gear pair. Told me there was quite a bit, may be totally wrong here..but I'm thinking the reason we have this rattle now and never had it in anything else is maybe HD changed gear vendors or something ??

 Below are three pics showing  the gear and the indexing dots I call them. Guessing it will have to be installed with them aligned and a load on it to take up the lash.. If anyone had a '17 Service manual in PDF , I'd love to take a look to see what's up   

 It is definitely  spring loaded and I  can see why it should take up the excess lash between low gear pairs. Not sure how to install yet, but my tech at HD will as he will do the bearings and the gear install. then I'll post it up here. 

Was going install  the Baker Smooth Shift Kit along with the gear. I  called Bert Baker yesterday had a great discussion with him.. what a straight up guy!. Told him what issue was the friggin neutral rattle and asked him if  the smooth shift  kit would help with the rattle and  he said no because it's a gear lash problem. but it will make it shift like a dream.

He's like most all of us, not sure why the problem  shows up here and there. When I told him what I was going to do and that I had the '17 gear. He thought that would take care of it. Funny why if there isn't a problem and everything is all good...Why did they come out with the scissor gear in '17??   

Stay tuned!. going to get busy tomorrow , have to order a IPB puller. Just what I wanted for Christmas.. Hope I am not boring you all to tears, but if this works .we'll have a cure for around $100 or so.! If not damn it was fun!! Stay tuned               
 

[Dan_Lockwood]

I was under the impression sometime a few years ago, maybe '11 or '12, that HD went to helical cut gears on 1st and 5th.  I think Baker has full helical cut gears, just wondering is all.

Good luck with your updates.

[fastfreddy]

staying tuned in, very interested in the out come. can you post part number? thnx FF

[Texas 103]

staying tuned in, very interested in the out come. can you post part number? thnx FF

Here ya go Freddy Part # 35600103 $59.76   Gotta like the price!. HD figures out what we are doing...could change...lol

[Texas 103]

I was under the impression sometime a few years ago, maybe '11 or '12, that HD went to helical cut gears on 1st and 5th.  I think Baker has full helical cut gears, just wondering is all.

Good luck with your updates.

Think that was in '10 Dan after everybody bitched about the 5th gear whine. Then they went from a straight cut 5th gear  to helical. Think low never changed . Had my HD parts guy print out a parts overview with numbers and I  started comparing,the only thing I found was the new "scissor gear" for low gear.     Also you can look at a gear set , pre '10 and post '10  start for the left and count over 5. The last gear is the final drive gear.

[Texas 103]

staying tuned in, very interested in the out come. can you post part number? thnx FF

Starting on it today, Have the puller coming for the IPB, should be here WEd or so.  Hoping I will have it out by nezt Friday . On my way to pick up a dial indicator now to see how much lash is in a "stock" gear set and the scissor when I get it out of there. . Betting it will be a hell of a lot!!..  My HD tech has been great help..

 Harry ( Unbalanced) and I were talking yesterday and he made a comment about the 255 cam. Since it's so short of an intake close it builds a lot of cyl pressure at idle and the pluses of the motor are greater. Thinking with a 24-D or another cam with a later intake  close and less cylinder pressure at idle  it might quiet down ?? Don;t know on that? Just a thought.   

[Cecild211]

Starting on it today, Have the puller coming for the IPB, should be here WEd or so.  Hoping I will have it out by nezt Friday . On my way to pick up a dial indicator now to see how much lash is in a "stock" gear set and the scissor when I get it out of there. . Betting it will be a hell of a lot!!..  My HD tech has been great help..

 Harry ( Unbalanced) and I were talking yesterday and he made a comment about the 255 cam. Since it's so short of an intake close it builds a lot of cyl pressure at idle and the pluses of the motor are greater. Thinking with a 24-D or another cam with a later intake  close and less cylinder pressure at idle  it might quiet down ?? Don;t know on that? Just a thought.

Well how did it go?



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[Texas 103]

Well how did it go?



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Gear set out, my guy can't get to it until Tuesday. Will change out trap door bearings and install new  " scissor" gear.Thought it was much better to pay a pro to do this part who's been there done that!  Probably won't get it back in the bike until after Christmas.   

 Found out something very interesting . Decided to get the  dial indicator out  and measure both the Lateral and the  radial play in low  gear just for the hell of it to see if I could figure out something on why it rattles.   

Harley Specs Are as follows : 
First Gear End play ( Axial) 0.001-0.023  Mine was 0.008-0.009 ! ..OOPS >>> No wonder it's noisy..
First Gear Clearance ( Radial) 0.0004-0.0020 Mine was 0.001 Good there.     

This gear sits on needle bearings on the shaft. Could understand a little wiggle and that may be the nature of the beast.     Extra clearance and the biggest gear on the countershaft with the most mass.   I could grab the gear  with my fingers and wiggle it back and forth on the shaft, without the shaft moving. .When I saw that , out came the dial indicator !   Really starting to understand what's going on, and why they rattle more when warm/hot .  Low gear is the one on the far left on the countershaft.   

Thinking HD probably changed vendors or something  for gears, countershafts  who knows. Just for grins I'd love to have an old gear set laying around and measure ..  Will be measuring the " new gear" to see what it changed , one way or another. 

I am hoping this works..!! Guess we'll see soon...

[Cecild211]

Gear set out, my guy can't get to it until Tuesday. Will change out trap door bearings and install new  " scissor" gear.Thought it was much better to pay pro to do this part who's been there done that!  Probably won't get it back in until after Christmas.   

 Found out something very interesting . Decided to get the  dial indicator out  and measure both the Lateral and the  radial play in low  gear just for the hell of it to see if I could figure out something on why it rattles.   

Harley Specs Are as follows : 
First Gear End play ( Axial) 0.001-0.023  Mine was 0.008-0.009 ! ..OOPS >>> No wonder it's noisy..
First Gear Clearance ( Radial) 0.0004-0.0020 Mine was 0.001 Good there.     

No wonder it rattles..! Extra clearance and the biggest gear on the countershaft.   I could grab the gear  with my fingers and wiggle it back and forth on the shaft, without the shaft moving. .When I saw that , out came the dial indicator !   Really starting to understand what's going on, and why they rattle more when warm/hot .  Low gear is the one on the far left on the countershaft.   

Thinking HD probably changed vendors or something  for gears, countershafts  who knows. Just for grins I'd love to have an old gear set laying around and measure ..  Will be measuring the " new gear" to see what it changed , one way or another. 

I am hoping this works..!! Guess we'll see soon...

Great write up and yes please keep us updated.  I can see a lot of upgrades about to take place if this pans out. 

Cee


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[fastfreddy]

well the dealer called me yesterday...you will never guess what they told me about the noise, there tech put a ear to it and said ...wait for it .... they all do that, so bike coming back home. hope this gear deal works out so i can take care of it myself. still not mad about it just disappointed

[Texas 103]

well the dealer called me yesterday...you will never guess what they told me about the noise, there tech put a ear to it and said ...wait for it .... they all do that, so bike coming back home. hope this gear deal works out so i can take care of it myself. still not mad about it just disappointed

I'm with you Freddy..I've had 4 CVO's and none of them did it..  Same here, just wondering now If I should buy a new countershaft in case the one  that's in there is a tad small. Bet your azz I'm taking the mics with me when we do this and measure it.  Not sure if a new countershaft would measure differently either.  Stay tuned

[Texas 103]

Great write up and yes please keep us updated.  I can see a lot of upgrades about to take place if this pans out. 

Cee


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Amen on the upgrades  Cee. Could see a few of the boys around here  getting busy and scissor gear sales going up...lol

[LMH]

well the dealer called me yesterday...you will never guess what they told me about the noise, there tech put a ear to it and said ...wait for it .... they all do that, so bike coming back home. hope this gear deal works out so i can take care of it myself. still not mad about it just disappointed

Sounds familiar... waiting to hear from Milwaukee on when they are sending a tech out to look at my bike here in So Cal. Expect after the first of the year. Local dealer has heard from them and they will check out the bike. Hopefully i won't get the same response from the factory tech that the dealer tech gave me.
Good attitude on your part about not getting mad. Unfortunately I don't have the skills to fix it myself or i would.
Hope the fix works for Texas 103 so i can lay it on the tech in January.

[Texas 103]

Sounds familiar... waiting to hear from Milwaukee on when they are sending a tech out to look at my bike here in So Cal. Expect after the first of the year. Local dealer has heard from them and they will check out the bike. Hopefully i won't get the same response from the factory tech that the dealer tech gave me.
Good attitude on your part about not getting mad. Unfortunately I don't have the skills to fix it myself or i would.
Hope the fix works for Texas 103 so i can lay it on the tech in January.

After a couple of cups of coffee this morning ...Here's my theory on what's up. Was thinking about how that gear rides on the countershaft. It's sits on needle bearings as seen in the picture below. Naturally it will have to have a little clearance to work correctly, to get a little lube in there, keep it cool  heat expansion etc. You will also notice that the bearing has a ' slot" in it.  It slides  on the countershaft with the gear and I'm guessing the "slot" in the bearing is for a  different sizes of both the gear and countershaft.

 Here's my theory: I'm thinking that the ones that rattle obviously have a little "extra" clearance in this gear,like mine.  This is the biggest gear on the countershaft with the most mass,riding on  needle bearings and could move around the most.

 Harry and I were discussing this and with the 110 being what it is, the 255 cam with short intake close, generating higher cylinder pressure at idle.  The  greater  uneven pulses  of the motor,shocks the drive line a little harder and it rattles if it's a  little loose.Wondering if a cam like the 24-D or something similar with a later intake close would make a difference?? 

Thinking this is why HD changed this gear for '17,to take up the "slack" and  keep it quiet. Don't think this gear would be any cheaper than what was used prior '17, I don't know. Hopefully  a good trans guy here can chime in and see if this makes sense or I just showed my a** and should hit delete and shut up....lol                       

[Texas 103]

After a couple of cups of coffee this morning ...Here's my theory on what's up. Was thinking about how that gear rides on the countershaft. It's sits on needle bearings as seen in the picture below. Naturally it will have to have a little clearance to work correctly, to get a little lube in there, keep it cool  heat expansion etc. You will also notice that the bearing has a ' slot" in it.  It slides  on the countershaft with the gear and I'm guessing the "slot" in the bearing is for a  different sizes of both the gear and countershaft.

 Here's my theory: I'm thinking that the ones that rattle obviously have a little "extra" clearance in this gear,like mine.  This is the biggest gear on the countershaft with the most mass,riding on  needle bearings and could move around the most.

 Couple that up with the 110 being what it is, and the 255 cam with short intake close, generating higher cylinder pressure at idle.  The  greater  uneven pulses  of the motor,shocks the drive line a little harder and it rattles. Wondering if a cam like the 24-D or something similar with a later intake close would make a difference?? 

Thinking this is why HD changed this gear for '17,to keep it quiet. Don't think this gear would be any cheaper than what was used prior '17, I don't know. Hopefully  a good trans guy here can chime in and see if this makes sense or I just showed my a** and should hit delete and shut up....lol                     

[Texas 103]

Went back at looked at Service Bulletin M-1304 which we are all familiar with. What i just noticed is the only vehicles affected ; all 2007 and later Touring, Dyna,Softail and Twin Cam engine affected CVO motorcycles. Rattle just  applies to all 110's, nothing else.. ??   Hmm.. Was so pissed when I read this I didn't pick that up. Have not heard it on anything else yet..

[Cecild211]

Went back at looked at Service Bulletin M-1304 which we are all familiar with. What i just noticed is the only vehicles affected ; all 2007 and later Touring, Dyna,Softail and Twin Cam engine affected CVO motorcycles. Rattle just  applies to all 110's, nothing else.. ??   Hmm.. Was so pissed when I read this I didn't pick that up. Have not heard it on anything else yet..

I believe my 103 has this problem as well.  But it does not have stock cams.  This maybe why it shows up more


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[Texas 103]

I believe my 103 has this problem as well.  But it does not have stock cams.  This maybe why it shows up more


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Interesting...would think cams with a later closing intake would help that , maybe something I'm missing in process..

[LMH]

Went back at looked at Service Bulletin M-1304 which we are all familiar with. What i just noticed is the only vehicles affected ; all 2007 and later Touring, Dyna,Softail and Twin Cam engine affected CVO motorcycles. Rattle just  applies to all 110's, nothing else.. ??   Hmm.. Was so pissed when I read this I didn't pick that up. Have not heard it on anything else yet..

This is what i have believed for some time. Always seems to be the 110. Never seen or heard of the issue from associates with other motors and never had the experience until I "stepped up" to a 110. Have never seen failures in all my years around the bikes like i have seen from the 110's since inception. Honestly have friends who have had three motors in the same bike replaced by HD over a 5 year period , all 110 CVO's. The fact that they refuse to acknowledge a problem irritates me no end. They just believe it is cheaper to replace a few hundred motors a year than acknowledge a problem. I honestly believe many owners just don't mind the noise and the inconvenience of repairs. Many of us have just come to expect it from the MFG. Written off as part of the HD experience i guess. I admit  I was that way until I wrote a check for over 40K for a motorcycle and decided I expected more for my $$ .
Rant over for today....

[grc]

Went back at looked at Service Bulletin M-1304 which we are all familiar with. What i just noticed is the only vehicles affected ; all 2007 and later Touring, Dyna,Softail and Twin Cam engine affected CVO motorcycles. Rattle just  applies to all 110's, nothing else.. ??   Hmm.. Was so pissed when I read this I didn't pick that up. Have not heard it on anything else yet..

Actually it applies to ALL 2007 and later Twin Cam engines, including CVO models.  So that would include TC96, TC103, and CVO110's.

The problem was created when Harley designed the Cruise Drive trans and went with the cheapest designs and methods in the trans.  Some gears were made integral with the shafts as a cost savings, which creates opportunity for more variation.  They incorporated a flimsy and somewhat Mickey Mouse trap door and bearing setup, which creates much more variation.  Think about similar changes made for the 2007 Twin Cam, like the flywheel assemblies.  It was all about cheapening the product (but not the price).

Instead of fixing the root cause of the issue in the Cruise Drive trans, they've chosen to add the scissor gear as a variable way to address the noise created by excessive gear lash.  If it does the job and eliminates the noise, fine.  But it is still just a Band Aid IMHO.

Jerry

[Texas 103]

Actually it applies to ALL 2007 and later Twin Cam engines, including CVO models.  So that would include TC96, TC103, and CVO110's.

The problem was created when Harley designed the Cruise Drive trans and went with the cheapest designs and methods in the trans.  Some gears were made integral with the shafts as a cost savings, which creates opportunity for more variation.  They incorporated a flimsy and somewhat Mickey Mouse trap door and bearing setup, which creates much more variation.  Think about similar changes made for the 2007 Twin Cam, like the flywheel assemblies.  It was all about cheapening the product (but not the price).

Instead of fixing the root cause of the issue in the Cruise Drive trans, they've chosen to add the scissor gear as a variable way to address the noise created by excessive gear lash.  If it does the job and eliminates the noise, fine.  But it is still just a Band Aid IMHO.

Jerry

Kinda what I was thinking also Jerry, I knew that wasn't a real high end trans. True..the  scissor gear is just a band aid ,to take up the slack  so they can still build em cheap! .  Must have interpeted that bulletin wrong. Hell if I can get it quiet for under $200..that works, unless I want to call Baker.. 

[Texas 103]

Kinda what I was thinking also Jerry, I knew that wasn't a real high end trans. True..the  scissor gear is just a band aid ,to take up the slack  so they can still build em cheap! .  Must have interpeted that bulletin wrong. Hell if I can get it quiet for under $200..that works, unless I want to call Baker..

Just got the gear set back with new gear installed!, nice and tight..The gear  dropped right in there no problem.  Now the real test! .Going to slide the gear set  it back in there tonight , spending the next few days with family in IL. Back the 28th hopefully get it buttoned up and try it out! .   

[Cecild211]

Just got the gear set back with new gear installed!, nice and tight..The gear  dropped right in there no problem.  Now the real test! .Going to slide the gear set  it back in there tonight , spending the next few days with family in IL. Back the 28th hopefully get it buttoned up and try it out! .   

Thanks for updating your followers.  We will be awaiting the final results. 


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[Texas 103]

Thanks for updating your followers.  We will be awaiting the final results. 


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WooHoo...Happy Quiet New Year!!... It works..The gear did the trick!...Fied it up on the lift, got it good and hot..no rattle.. A big shout out to Tom @ Maverick HD in Carrollton, Texas for all his assistance..   

Was in Decatur, Il. over Christmas went into Coziahr HD to pick up some inner primary bolts. started chatting with the parts guys about what I was doing he said they did one just like mine about a month ago, nice and quiet.

Guess we aren't the first to figure out this little trick and sure as hell won't be the last. Total bill was about $200-225.    Going for a ride...!!   

[Cecild211]

Well how about that.  That is great news.

So to recap all I need is the new gear and of course new gaskets for everything

Also did it reduce the backlash you feel by rotating rear tire back and forth while in the air?

Thanks for all the great info

Be safe out there


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[Texas 103]

Well how about that.  That is great news.

So to recap all I need is the new gear and of course new gaskets for everything

Also did it reduce the backlash you feel by rotating rear tire back and forth while in the air?

Thanks for all the great info

Be safe out there

Yes, absolutely...what i really noticed is when i tried to shake the input shaft back and forth it would;t move...very solid..Yes the gear and a good trans guy that can change it . You want trap door bearings and the needle bearings for the gear. Probably didn't need the needle bearing for the gear. Can put a parts list together   


Update after a long ride today...Bad News and Good news..

Bad news is I guess I was a little premature in my jubilation that the rattle was gone. Part of it is...After I got it good and hot running it hard, it  started rattling again, just not nearly as bad. Thought I had it hot as hell on the lift, guess not...Back to the drawing board... I 'm speculating that I probably have a very loose gear set,  trap door or what ever  I just may buy a good low mileage one and swap it out just for the hell of it. Don't know yet..

Now the good news! Evidently that scissor gear takes the " slack" out of the low gear pair and it drops right into gear with a very little clunk. Nice and smooth. Thinking that's why you are hearing how smooth the '17's when they are dropping in gear. If you pull the  clutch in for 15-30 seconds it is amazing..almost no  clunk ...and that's after it had the pizz run out of it and was very warm. 

 Sorry guys..Overall, it wasn't the outcome I really wanted, didn't  spend a lot of cash, think the bill was $200, spent a little time .. but I got a hell of an education..and it was fun,most of the time.. Thinking out loud I may buy another gear set, put a good trap door on it and the scissor gear and see what we have..   

Tom , my HD tech and I were talking today and agreed that the only two visible changes for the  17's was the case and the gear. Part numbers for everything else is the same. HD may have changed something like vendors, or whatever.. The '17 107 I listened to today wasn't overly quiet either.. On with the show.. Hell I think I could flat rate a gear change now..lol.. 


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[fastfreddy]

DANG IT 

[Texas 103]

DANG IT 

That's not exactly what I said..Was talking to John Sachs the other day, told him what was going on,what i had done  and considered just changing to another  gear set and taking my chances.  His comment was , put a Baker door on it before changing gear sets. Because the POS Harley door with snap rings in it let's the bearings move around in the door changing things inside the trans. Made sense to me especially after it got good and hot and it wsa worse.  it''s either a door or another  gear set. on the bright side it just drops in low like butter now,minimal noise. 

I actually found a '12 gear set for $300 I could have used. I know when the 117 starts putting the power to it, things may move around more. . Baker is coming out with a DD 6 for our bikes in March, may be going that way.  Doing the 117 build now, goal is 125 squared, when that's done and tuned, I will pull the gear set and slip on a  Baker door  and we'll see what we can see.

[Cecild211]

I but the Baker door and shift kit in 2011 RG during a rebuild over the summer.  Shifts really nice now, much better than my 2016.   Sure wish that gear had been available then and had known, while I had it all apart. 

The rattle is much worse on my 11 than the 16.  But I'm sure difference is the over 110k on it. 




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[grc]

The more I read about the Cruise Drive the more I'm convinced that many of the issues people complain about can be traced back to the cheap and imprecise trap door setup. 

Jerry

[Texas 103]

The more I read about the Cruise Drive the more I'm convinced that many of the issues people complain about can be traced back to the cheap and imprecise trap door setup. 

Jerry

X-2 on that Jerry!..That and both shafts with gears manufactured on them.  Thinking Mr.Sachs has a pretty damn good point.  .I am going to at least get it figured out on mine, even if I have to put another gear set(s)  in.. I don't care!! John mentioned the snap rings in the door had a taper to them and he felt like they were collapsing letting the bearings and other  stuff move around couple that up with a loose door.  Pretty hard to keep the proper gear lash when things are moving around.

.One thing I noticed in mine is it sounds like damn old  Babbitt bearing motor with loose rods when you wick it, no matter what the temperature is. Something will be different with the new door..just don't know what yet.. Hell it might quiet down with a 117 and different cam...right..stay tuned..lol       

[Cecild211]

The new door is thicker and bearings are held in with a plate.  You can tell the difference on the flex part at the clutch lever. Not near as much ghost movement when getting on the throttle.


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[Texas 103]

The new door is thicker and bearings are held in with a plate.  You can tell the difference on the flex part at the clutch lever. Not near as much ghost movement when getting on the throttle.


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Yes, that's exactly what John was saying about the Baker door. Guess I'll be calling Mark again, probably drove him nuts discussing the rattle..Hell now I better buy something  What I did find out with the gear was that it wasn't the low gear pair making the rattle.  Onward and upward...!       

[motor1]

Considering this repair as my winter project. Just curious if after a season of riding if you are happy with the results? Also is there a consensus on the need for a Baker trapdoor?
When hot my neutral rattle is so loud it is embarrassing, the bike sounds like a cement mixer!

[Texas 103]

Considering this repair as my winter project. Just curious if after a season of riding if you are happy with the results? Also is there a consensus on the need for a Baker trapdoor?
When hot my neutral rattle is so loud it is embarrassing, the bike sounds like a cement mixer!

The scissor gear didn't fix the  rattle. Sure makes it nice when you drop it in gear, most of the time ,if you give it 5-10 seconds no clunk or a very light one. Make sure and use redline or similar light fluid in eh primary, help the clutch release quicker and cleaner. Main shaft in our transmissions weigh 5.83 lbs and it the momentum keep it tuning for a while.   

 I feel you pain on the neutral rattle. I think the Baker  door with bigger bearings ( 28% ) in it will go along way and may take care it it. Had I known then what I know now..lol. No doubt I would slip the new  scissor gear in when I did the door, but I wouldn't do the   gear by itself. Unless you just want to for the hell of it. As you saw in my other thread I am also going to install the new MDG gear & bearing. Stay tuned , PM me if you'd like.