Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[muddypaws]

Picked upmy2017 CVO Limied the other day. After 250 mikes in traffic he low oil pressure light came on. It did it several more times during the day.Go figure I took it to the dealer the next day and the light did not come on. I drove it another 400 miles and no problem. Anyone have any ideas what could have happened?

[Joel]

Take a look at the connector to the oil pressure switch.
See if it is loose,  could be all you need to do is ensure it has a tight connection.

[hd-dude]

The oil pressure sender has two circuits. One uses a varied resistance to run the gauge and the other switches to ground to activate the light. An intermittent short to ground on the wire from the sensor up to the light will light the light. A loose connection at the sensor would not light the light.  Did you notice what's the gauge read whe the light came on?

[smkymtnboy]

 you mentioned traffic. you may have thinned the oil with the heat and at idle your light may come on. it does seem the wrong time of year for this to happen. my 110 done this in traffic in gatlinburg. i pulled over and went and eat. the oil cooled down the traffic thinned and it never done it again. i did go home and change the oil.

[ultrafxr]

The oil pressure sender has two circuits. One uses a varied resistance to run the gauge and the other switches to ground to activate the light. An intermittent short to ground on the wire from the sensor up to the light will light the light. A loose connection at the sensor would not light the light.  Did you notice what's the gauge read whe the light came on?

Unfortunately the 17s don't have a pressure reading. Info screen on BB just says OK or Check Oil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grc]

Unfortunately the 17s don't have a pressure reading. Info screen on BB just says OK or Check Oil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's how they keep people from complaining about the extremely low oil pressure at idle.  I posted several months back when this subject first came up, asking if someone would connect a mechanics oil pressure gauge to see what kind of actual oil pressure they are running in the new engines, at speed and at idle.  So far I haven't noticed any responses.  Customers of the new bikes with this "trust us" system might want to look at installing their own gauges, like people did for decades on older Harleys that didn't come with one standard. 

Jerry

[Lever]

I haven't  seen any oil pressure gauge yet available for the m8  design   the rocker box's  are different then the oil twin cam design

[Fullsac Performance]

Common problem with factory oil. Its actually easy to fix.

Steve@fullsac.com

[sadunbar]

Common problem with factory oil. Its actually easy to fix.

Steve@fullsac.com

Really?  I honestly have not followed any news on the M8 motor, but is it really common when using factory oil in the 2017 bikes to have the low oil pressure idiot light come on several times a day as the original post stated?  That would compete for a new low in MOCO technology...

[smkymtnboy]

after reading some of the above responses. i think my above post needs to be withdrawn as a consideration for the problem. sad to learn the new bikes have oil pressure reading problems. after, 100 years plus you would think this would not be a problem. oil pressure seems really important and a really easy problem to solve. the GAUGE says you have it or you do not. good luck in solving moco problem they sold you. sorry, for seeming so negative this just seems so easy to place an oil gauge on a high priced bike that works. 

[Fullsac Performance]

Really?  I honestly have not followed any news on the M8 motor, but is it really common when using factory oil in the 2017 bikes to have the low oil pressure idiot light come on several times a day as the original post stated?  That would compete for a new low in MOCO technology...

Yep, and its not even summer yet. The truth is the new M8 is the hottest HD motor yet. Cole has recorded oil temps as hi as 340 leaving the cylinder head on his air cooled 107. A good synthetic is mandatory. The Trikes and police bikes have an oil cooler fan as standard equipment. IMHO, the oil cooler fan should be standard on all of the bikes. Maybe next year?

[08glide]

. Maybe next year?

are we placing bets?     

[FLSTFI Dave]

Yep, and its not even summer yet. The truth is the new M8 is the hottest HD motor yet. Cole has recorded oil temps as hi as 340 leaving the cylinder head on his air cooled 107. A good synthetic is mandatory. The Trikes and police bikes have an oil cooler fan as standard equipment. IMHO, the oil cooler fan should be standard on all of the bikes. Maybe next year?

Not a surprise, emissions standards keep getting harder and harder to meet.  Running very lean is one way they do it.  Bikes are getting heavier also, and engines bigger, again more heat.  Stators are bigger for electrical load, again more heat.

[pcpisano]

I had a '09 ultra limited cvo... the 110 ran hot mist of the time. Loved the bike but sold it after taking a job overseas... I'm back and will make the plunge next year... I'm hoping the Harley folk listened to we Harley consumers, have solved those problems, will have implemented solutions to next year's CVO models...Speaking of naivety, let me ask a question, does Harley's liquid cool solution provide any relief to the engine's high heat? Thanks 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fullsac Performance]

I had a '09 ultra limited cvo... the 110 ran hot mist of the time. Loved the bike but sold it after taking a job overseas... I'm back and will make the plunge next year... I'm hoping the Harley folk listened to we Harley consumers, have solved those problems, will have implemented solutions to next year's CVO models...Speaking of naivety, let me ask a question, does Harley's liquid cool solution provide any relief to the engine's high heat? Thanks 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The new design provides relief to the rider by relocating the heat and shedding it away from the operator. They really do feel much cooler when you ride it. In actuality the engine is even hotter. There is a relationship between this and the flickering oil light at idle.

[FLSTFI Dave]

The new design provides relief to the rider by relocating the heat and shedding it away from the operator. They really do feel much cooler when you ride it. In actuality the engine is even hotter. There is a relationship between this and the flickering oil light at idle.

This could be why the infotainment system for 17 quit showing oil pressure and just ok when running.  Not enough pressure to display.

[Fullsac Performance]

This could be why the infotainment system for 17 quit showing oil pressure and just ok when running.  Not enough pressure to display.

They most likely got tired of all the low oil pressure inquiry's based off the readings they allowed people to see. Easy fix, take away the information. One less thing to worry a man trying to have a good time. Easier for the rider to focus on synchronizing mini joysticks with thumb covered gloves to sort through 500 GPS options, 250 music stations and 50 background color choices while enjoying the fresh air and solitude of the open road. They understand our needs.

Steve@fullsac.com

[smkymtnboy]

They most likely got tired of all the low oil pressure inquiry's based off the readings they allowed people to see. Easy fix, take away the information. One less thing to worry a man trying to have a good time. Easier for the rider to focus on synchronizing mini joysticks with thumb covered gloves to sort through 500 GPS options, 250 music stations and 50 background color choices while enjoying the fresh air and solitude of the open road. They understand our needs.

Steve@fullsac.com

the warning says no selection while moving. so, i guess no oil pressure monitoring either.

[r0de_runr]

How did you break in the motor?  From the OP it sounds like just tookoff into traffic.  That motor is going to get really hot those first few rides.  Ill bet you could smell plastic getting hot.

New bike, head for the open road and ride it easy for at least a couple of hours, cool down, repeat. a After 250 mi or so, ride it normal (easy normal).

[muddypaws]

Here is my update. The dealer in FL installed a new oil pump. Said it was the third one he has done. It's an upgrade from the one that came with the bike only 850 miles ago. They test drove the bike and no light so I loaded the bike up on the trailer and took her back to VA. First time starting in VA and the dam light stays on all the time now. The dealer will overnight me a pressure switch to install. If that does not work I'll find a dealer in VA to see what the hell is wrong.

[Fullsac Performance]

Here is my update. The dealer in FL installed a new oil pump. Said it was the third one he has done. It's an upgrade from the one that came with the bike only 850 miles ago. They test drove the bike and no light so I loaded the bike up on the trailer and took her back to VA. First time starting in VA and the dam light stays on all the time now. The dealer will overnight me a pressure switch to install. If that does not work I'll find a dealer in VA to see what the hell is wrong.

See if the sender is plugged in.

Steve@fullsac.com

[muddypaws]

It's plugged in. When it left the shop the light was out. Now it's on all the time.

[J.D.]

Wow 2017 and MoCo still can't get it right.

Is it possible to remove the switch and install an analog test gauge?

[muddypaws]

Don't know. FL dealer is sending a new switch. My guess it's something else now with the new oil pump.

[J.D.]

For me personally, there are only 2 important pieces of information that I need on a bike - oil pressure and odometer with trip readout (better than a gas gauge).  Everything else is "fluff".

[Fullsac Performance]

It's plugged in. When it left the shop the light was out. Now it's on all the time.

Does the motor sound OK? Lifters rattling, anything like that?

Steve

[ultrarider123]

Does the motor sound OK? Lifters rattling, anything like that?

Steve

I had a good laugh on that one.....lifters rattling on a Harley......

[muddypaws]

Steve the motor sound fine. The dealer said he checked the pressure I'm not sure how so I think and hope it's just the sending unit. Should have a new one by Wednesday. If that does not fix it I told the dealer to come and get it and bring it back to FL. Steve looking for a set of pipes off my 2017 CVO Limited.

[sadunbar]

All the bad oil pumps I've read about on the M8 motors almost has to be a crap supplier.  How could the MOCO possibly screw up the design.  That would be almost as hard to believe as screwing up the front brake master cylinder after decades of using the same basic design...   (sarcasm intended)

[ultrafxr]

Wow 2017 and MoCo still can't get it right.

Is it possible to remove the switch and install an analog test gauge?

Yes, that is exactly what the service manual says to do - remove oem oil pressure switch and install oil pressure gauge to verify actual reading.
Spec is:  min at idle 5 psi; normal @ 2000 rpm 30-38 psi; max 50 psi

[Fullsac Performance]

Steve the motor sound fine. The dealer said he checked the pressure I'm not sure how so I think and hope it's just the sending unit. Should have a new one by Wednesday. If that does not fix it I told the dealer to come and get it and bring it back to FL. Steve looking for a set of pipes off my 2017 CVO Limited.

They replaced the pump and now the sending unit is bad? Just a coincidence?

Steve

[muddypaws]

With the old pump still in they removed the sending unit and pressure was low at idle. With eh new pump the pressure was OK. So they do think it's a bad sending unit.

[smkymtnboy]

With the old pump still in they removed the sending unit and pressure was low at idle. With eh new pump the pressure was OK. So they do think it's a bad sending unit.

with low oil pressure(pump)did anyone seem concerned about the engine?

[J.D.]

They replaced the pump and now the sending unit is bad? Just a coincidence?

Steve

Unless it was damaged during their pressure test.  Sounds like it was removed and reinstalled during the pump swap.

[muddypaws]

During the pump change out. I hope it just got damaged. Dealer just called and sent out new switch overnight by UPS. It will get here Monday they don't deliver on Saturday.

[fastfreddy]

 so you got my attention with this one,... your local auto part store should have an oil pressure gauge kit and if it were me think i would be checking, your changing the sender any way pop a gauge on it 

[CHH_Badkarma]

+1
Never hurts to have a live oil preasure gauge instead of just an idiot light

[Lever]

hopefully a oil pressure gauge will be available soon ...

[grc]

hopefully a oil pressure gauge will be available soon ...

If you're waiting for Harley to make a kit to add a gauge to a bike they purposely eliminated the gauge from, you might not want to hold your breath.   Fortunately generic oil pressure gauges and sending units are widely available in the aftermarket, so anyone who wants to know, versus just "trusting" H-D, can rig up their own gauge or at least plumb one in temporarily to see what kind of oil pressure they're running.  There are also standard mechanics gauges for diagnostic purposes that connect directly to the oil pressure port in the case, eliminating any sending unit errors.  It sounds like this would be a good idea for a lot of folks.

Jerry

[smkymtnboy]

If you're waiting for Harley to make a kit to add a gauge to a bike they purposely eliminated the gauge from, you might not want to hold your breath.   Fortunately generic oil pressure gauges and sending units are widely available in the aftermarket, so anyone who wants to know, versus just "trusting" H-D, can rig up their own gauge or at least plumb one in temporarily to see what kind of oil pressure they're running.  There are also standard mechanics gauges for diagnostic purposes that connect directly to the oil pressure port in the case, eliminating any sending unit errors.  It sounds like this would be a good idea for a lot of folks.

Jerry

AGREED!

[CVOSGJoe]

Your not going to find in a local parts store the fittings required to install a mechanical gauge, I believe the fittings are either metric or straight thread vs your typical tapered NPT. The dealers had to wait on special kits from HD that were back ordered for doing exactly as mentioned, checking the pressure using a mechanical gauge.

Not saying it cant be done, for I use Metric and Straight pipe thread components all the time but, they need to be found using fitting companies and such, not Auto Zone type places.

[Lever]

Your not going to find in a local parts store the fittings required to install a mechanical gauge, I believe the fittings are either metric or straight thread vs your typical tapered NPT. The dealers had to wait on special kits from HD that were back ordered for doing exactly as mentioned, checking the pressure using a mechanical gauge.

Not saying it cant be done, for I use Metric and Straight pipe thread components all the time but, they need to be found using fitting companies and such, not Auto Zone type places.

along with what he said there's not a bracket available to mount on the rocker covers  either  m8  rocker covers are a new design 

[grc]

Unless Harley had someone design a proprietary switch with a unique thread no one else in the bike or auto industry uses, which is extremely unlikely, I'm sure an adapter could be found that will screw into the engine case.  It may not be the same as the Twin Cams, but that doesn't mean you can't find an adapter.  Figure out what the actual thread size is, then it becomes a case of searching for an adapter.  If it's metric, most of the cars on the road these days use metric so I'll bet at least one brand uses something that matches.j

Yes, the current kits that mount to the rocker cover aren't going to fit the M8.  Harley may never offer a kit that fits, but I'm guessing the aftermarket will once they realize people want to know what the pressure is on the new engines.  In the meantime, temporarily rigging up a mechanics gauge so you can check pressures in various riding conditions should be fairly easy.  People did it for decades with Evo's and Twin Cams when diagnosing oil pressure problems, so it's not something new.

Jerry

[ultrafxr]

I know I read somewhere  several months ago after I got my M8 that the moco was 'going' to offer  a kit/device/upgrade    available from the P&A catalog to allow for direct oil pressure readout on the 17s.  Darned if I can find that info now. 

ADDED:  I did a 'google' search about this and came up with this interesting link:

www.harley-davidson.com/content/h-d/en_AU/home/owners/Infotainment.html
Get the latest software for your Harley-Davidson Boom! ... for oil pressure on MY17 models. Oil pressure ... be enabled with a P&A accessory for MY17 vehicles.

This is a website for Australia and New Zealand but the link just takes you to the moco website to update the BB Infotainment center software.  There is nothing about oil pressure.  Perhaps the moco was planning to add this and hasn't yet or decided not to.   

Don't know if this pertains to domestic.  Seems to me that they could get whatever data is required from the existing sender unit.  I mean that's how they determine when pressure is so low that the light is illuminated. 

Did a little research and learned that the oil pressure sender which was p/n 74438-99A up thru 2016 has been changed to p/n 71400112 for 2017.  Don't know the significance of that but perhaps it will not allow for direct pressure readout.   

[grc]

IF Harley offers a kit to make the Boom system work like previous models and give actual pressure readings, the kit will have to include a new sending unit.  There are two different types of parts involved, one is just a simple switch that turns the light off once a preset pressure is reached, while the other is more expensive and combines the switch function with actual pressure readings.  If the current M8 engine oil pressure switch is anything like the earlier ones, the preset pressure is so low that basically any pressure at all will turn off the light (I seem to remember checking one a few years back that turned off at approximately 2 psi for instance, I've heard of others that turned off at 1 psi).  Idiot lights are good for telling you about a failure that needs immediate reaction, but not much else.

2016 and previous model years:
P/N 74438-99A  Oil Pressure Sender   $35.47
2017 M8 models:
P/N 71400112  Oil Pressure Switch   $12.63

Jerry

[ultrafxr]

IF Harley offers a kit to make the Boom system work like previous models and give actual pressure readings, the kit will have to include a new sending unit.  There are two different types of parts involved, one is just a simple switch that turns the light off once a preset pressure is reached, while the other is more expensive and combines the switch function with actual pressure readings.  If the current M8 engine oil pressure switch is anything like the earlier ones, the preset pressure is so low that basically any pressure at all will turn off the light (I seem to remember checking one a few years back that turned off at approximately 2 psi for instance, I've heard of others that turned off at 1 psi).  Idiot lights are good for telling you about a failure that needs immediate reaction, but not much else.

2016 and previous model years:
P/N 74438-99A  Oil Pressure Sender   $35.47
2017 M8 models:
P/N 71400112  Oil Pressure Switch   $12.63

Jerry

Good info.  So I guess the 'OK' indication of oil pressure on the BB screen just means ' it's not low enough to trigger the low oil pressure warning light.'  So to the moco in the words of the old Ernest Tubb hit song - 'thanks, thanks a lot.'

[muddypaws]

Today the dealer sent me an oil pressure switch and the problem is fixed. Not sure how the oil pump could be bad and then the switch unless the mechanic damaged it taking it out to check pressure.

[CHH_Badkarma]

Glad things worked out. 

[smkymtnboy]

wow! sounds like the dealership took the long way around. but,they did get you fixed up. give em credit for that! good luck from here on.

[muddypaws]

I do think the initial problem was the sending unit but they did check the pump and said is was producing low pressure thne it should So I guess I'm glad I got the new updated pump.

[Twolanerider]

It's nice when a lack of dealer competence works in your favor.  Likely had nothing other than a bad sending unit all along.  Got an upgraded oil pump because of it.   Nice  .

[muddypaws]

Does anyone know if the new oil pump has a new part number?

[grc]

Does anyone know if the new oil pump has a new part number?

The old part numbering system was obvious, with the letters added to the end of the original part number to signify an updated part.  An example would be part number 54373-99C, meaning it was the third update to the original 54373-99.  As best I can tell the new part number system doesn't have an obvious indicator.

The part number in the online parts catalog for the oil pump for your bike is 62400124.  What part number does your copy of the work order show they used?

Jerry

[muddypaws]

I'll look when I get home and post.

[muddypaws]

I called two other dealers and was told there is an updated oil pump. I could not get out of either one if it's a pump redesign or was it just a vendor screw up during pump production.

[sadunbar]

I called two other dealers and was told there is an updated oil pump. I could not get out of either one if it's a pump redesign or was it just a vendor screw up during pump production.

The statement "updated oil pump" implies a new part number.  A vendor manufacturing issue would not require a new part number, just a more capable vendor.  An engineering design change would require a new part number....

[muddypaws]

It's the same part number but several dealers told me it's a replacement. All I really care is that it works.....

[Twolanerider]

The statement "updated oil pump" implies a new part number.  A vendor manufacturing issue would not require a new part number, just a more capable vendor.  An engineering design change would require a new part number....

No change for even a manufacturing correction is still both lazy and a concern though.  With that there is no way to distinguish good "new" inventory from the old original parts.  Never seen that done when it wasn't a CYA move from someone not wanting the attention.

[RRICE731]

The oil light on my 17 SG started coming on at idle today.  Stoped by the dealer and they toped of the oil. It was not that low. Rode home seemed to be fine. Went for another ride and now the oil light comes on every time the motor is at idle. I'll call the dealer tomorrow.

[Twolanerider]

The oil light on my 17 SG started coming on at idle today.  Stoped by the dealer and they toped of the oil. It was not that low. Rode home seemed to be fine. Went for another ride and now the oil light comes on every time the motor is at idle. I'll call the dealer tomorrow.

You've got a stupid or intentionally evasive dealer.  Any dipstick (pardon the pun) should know that a slightly low oil volume isn't a cause for low oil pressure.  They're trying to pacify you in to disregarding something that is too likely to be significant to repair.

[grc]

You've got a stupid or intentionally evasive dealer.  Any dipstick (pardon the pun) should know that a slightly low oil volume isn't a cause for low oil pressure.  They're trying to pacify you in to disregarding something that is too likely to be significant to repair.

Yup, just another variation on the all-to-typical Harley shop reaction to anything that might require some knowledge and effort to fix.  You can find similar people in many other shops no doubt, but out of all the service facilities I've had dealings with over the past forty-five years, Harley stands out as the franchise with the lowest standards when it comes to service employees. 

Jerry

[RRICE731]

They came out today to pick up the bike. Should have an answer soon.

[ultrafxr]

They came out today to pick up the bike. Should have an answer soon.

Heard anything from the dealer about this problem?

[RRICE731]

The dealer called today and Harley is sending them a new oil pump to install. Should be back on the road soon.

[RRICE731]

Now oil pumps are on back order till the 19th. This sucks

[sadunbar]

Now oil pumps are on back order till the 19th. This sucks

Well, think of it this way.  You could be puking head gaskets, as many of us experienced when the MOCO introduced the 110 motor...   

[muddypaws]

Ran out of new pumps but Harley tells us there is no problem....

[RRICE731]

After several calls to find out what was going on with bike and getting the run around they call today and said the oil pump replaced and they would deliver my bike today. When they delivered the bike they had no paper work so right now I'm not clear on what they really did. Rode the bike about 20 miles and the water temp light and the engine light came on. Also the motor seems to be making a whining noise. I was not stopped in traffic and the air temp was only 70. Back to the dealer it goes.

[muddypaws]

Virginia have the three strike lemon law. Not sure about your state but I would check into it. Took my bike two visits to get the oil pump issue fixed. I called Harley and got a case number after the second visit and told them they only get one more try. Bike was fixed after second visit 5000 miles and no problems.

[CVOSGJoe]

After several calls to find out what was going on with bike and getting the run around they call today and said the oil pump replaced and they would deliver my bike today. When they delivered the bike they had no paper work so right now I'm not clear on what they really did. Rode the bike about 20 miles and the water temp light and the engine light came on. Also the motor seems to be making a whining noise. I was not stopped in traffic and the air temp was only 70. Back to the dealer it goes.

I can tell you they did not prime the coolant system properly.... Amazing how many dealership tech's cant get this right after introducing the twin cooled three years ago..   Same Same thing happened to my bike as you have experienced.  I actually showed the tech how to prime it.

[J.D.]

Sheesh what has happened to Harley???  Amateur hour.

[grc]

Sheesh what has happened to Harley???  Amateur hour.

It's nothing new, they've been an amateur hour kind of business for a long time.  When they introduced the new engine last year and actually addressed some of the long standing complaints from owners, some thought management had finally gotten the message.  These most recent events just show that you don't fix an ingrained corporate culture problem overnight or by just flipping a switch.  They still don't give customers honest answers when they register complaints and they still try to blow off people versus just fix the problems.  And one of the biggest issues they haven't even begun to address is the abysmal dealership service. 

Jerry

[RRICE731]

Thanks Joe,  I think I'll ride it up to the dealer and have them fix it.

[RRICE731]

Pulled the cover off and the reserve bottle is empty.  Also others are right most of the dealers don't give a crap about customer service.  I called the dealership owner last week and after everyone else at the dealer called me back he finally returned my call.  Of course he claim he has no knowledge of whats going on with my bike but would find out and would return my call when they opened the next day.  Day 3 no call from the owner. Don't think Ill ever here from him

[grc]

Pulled the cover off and the reserve bottle is empty.  Also others are right most of the dealers don't give a crap about customer service.  I called the dealership owner last week and after everyone else at the dealer called me back he finally returned my call.  Of course he claim he has no knowledge of whats going on with my bike but would find out and would return my call when they opened the next day.  Day 3 no call from the owner. Don't think Ill ever here from him

There is a way to help eliminate the incompetent and don't give a chit dealers, but unfortunately not enough people will do it.  It's called never doing business with that dealership again, even to the point of never buying a part or even a T-shirt from them.  The only thing people like this understand is the almighty dollar, and as long as customers keep handing them those dollars they have no incentive to improve. 

Jerry

[RRICE731]

That's my plan. I went to the dealer and they fixed it.  I stayed outside and waited for it.  Don't plan on ever stepping foot on there again.

[KGB]

That's my plan. I went to the dealer and they fixed it.  I stayed outside and waited for it.  Don't plan on ever stepping foot on there again.

I know this is a couple of months old, but was just reading this and wondered what dealer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk