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[newseultra07]

Is it necessary to have heads ported and polished. Builder said for the money it's worth doing it.  Sending out to WFO Larry for head work.    I'm going with the 117" kit for my CVO RG ultra.  Using the S&S pushrods and lifters along with the tman 585 cams.  Going to check crank run out while it's apart. Hoping the crank is still good as I don't wanna spend anymore $$$$ on a new crank. 

[hd-dude]

Not necessary but will give more horse power and torque with porting and polishing. We just finished this one up in a 15 SE limited. HD bolt on 117 barrels ans pistons. Stock heads, .040 Head gasket, fullsac DX headpipe, Fullsac 1.75" Cores, Tman 625 cam, S&S camplate, pump, lifters and pushrods, SE 58mm Throttle body with 5.3 injectors. ~125hp & ~130tq

[newseultra07]

Sweet hope I get same results or maybe even better.

[grofcvo]

Not necessary but will give more horse power and torque with porting and polishing. We just finished this one up in a 15 SE limited. HD bolt on 117 barrels ans pistons. Stock heads, .040 Head gasket, fullsac DX headpipe, Fullsac 1.75" Cores, Tman 625 cam, S&S camplate, pump, lifters and pushrods, SE 58mm Throttle body with 5.3 injectors. ~125hp & ~130tq

thinking about upgrade for a long time but could not justify money spent vs what ph/tq bike will get ... on my cvo 110 have 116/132

[slinkcvo]

How much $$$$ for this 117 build?

[newseultra07]

How much $$$$ for this 117 build?

Around $4600.00

[prodrag1320]

stock heads are barely enough for a 103",when going bigger inches,its a must.

[Mr D]

Not necessary but will give more horse power and torque with porting and polishing. We just finished this one up in a 15 SE limited. HD bolt on 117 barrels ans pistons. Stock heads, .040 Head gasket, fullsac DX headpipe, Fullsac 1.75" Cores, Tman 625 cam, S&S camplate, pump, lifters and pushrods, SE 58mm Throttle body with 5.3 injectors. ~125hp & ~130tq

Good work Jim with the tune 

On tap quiet power for a bagger

[Mr D]

Sweet hope I get same results or maybe even better.

Exhaust & Tune makes or breaks a build 

[Scott7d]

I've got WFO Larry's heads on a 113" build that runs fantastic. I have a pretty mild/torque oriented cam but it still made a decent chunk of HP. I credit the heads for that. I'm starting a 117" build Saturday, going to use the same heads but the builder/tuner is sending them back to Larry for a little refreshing.

[FlaHeatWave]

Not necessary but will give more horse power and torque with porting and polishing. We just finished this one up in a 15 SE limited. HD bolt on 117 barrels ans pistons. Stock heads, .040 Head gasket, fullsac DX headpipe, Fullsac 1.75" Cores, Tman 625 cam, S&S camplate, pump, lifters and pushrods, SE 58mm Throttle body with 5.3 injectors. ~125hp & ~130tq

Nice #s  Sweet Curves 

Are the 625s the "new" PS Cams??

What is the CCP ??

[hd-dude]

Nice #s  Sweet Curves 

Are the 625s the "new" PS Cams??

What is the CCP ??

Yes the PS cams, from memory CCP was set at about 195#

[JKM]

remember that the stock spring are too heavy and should be replaced.  Also the the stock valve guides are also a weak point.  At a minimum you should address these.  Reality is while you're doing that, you might as well port and polished to get the right amount of flow, while addressing the guides and springs

[HD Street Performance]

Would tend to agree except the springs.
I just don't prefer the design. Flat damper spring on many. The beehives I am moving away from. They have a lower spring rate but more pressure on the seat. Plus I have had a few sets of beehives break. I prefer conical or double springs of the proper height and pressure.

[hd-dude]

The valve springs were changed on this build.

[prodrag1320]

The valve springs were changed on this build.

still using beehives here,no reason not too,but many reasons for using them.get rid of the SE springs (if anyone does want the SE springs,ive got box`s of them,PM me)

[ultraswede]

still using beehives here,no reason not too,but many reasons for using them.get rid of the SE springs (if anyone does want the SE springs,ive got box`s of them,PM me)

What is the benefit replacing the stock 110 springs with beehives?

[r0de_runr]

What is the benefit replacing the stock 110 springs with beehives?

"They" say that the double stock 110 springs are too stiff.   "They" say to put in AV&V springs.

So I did.  "MY" bike is in the shop with a broken AV&V beehive spring and bent valve.

I wish I could find "They" so "They" could pay for my 113 build.

[Yellow09SERG]

Not necessary but will give more horse power and torque with porting and polishing. We just finished this one up in a 15 SE limited. HD bolt on 117 barrels ans pistons. Stock heads, .040 Head gasket, fullsac DX headpipe, Fullsac 1.75" Cores, Tman 625 cam, S&S camplate, pump, lifters and pushrods, SE 58mm Throttle body with 5.3 injectors. ~125hp & ~130tq

Jim, any guess what that build would have done with the Tman 600 instead of the 625? Really curious as to what difference the earlier intake close would make

[HD Street Performance]

"They" say that the double stock 110 springs are too stiff.   "They" say to put in AV&V springs.

So I did.  "MY" bike is in the shop with a broken AV&V beehive spring and bent valve.

I wish I could find "They" so "They" could pay for my 113 build.

No more here.
I default to my experience and that of others who I respect especially Sachs, 2 bikes broken here. There have been too many telltale signs on others I have had come in with not a lot of miles and the seat pressures 20+ lbs off what they installed at and less than original height and tipped tops. All signs of fatigue.
Not a place to take chances.
Quote from Sachs
"That being, the 1 big problem I find is if a spring breaks, usually the sh*t hits the fan. With dual springs, if a spring breaks, the inner spring will generally prevent the valve from having a mind of its own."
You've heard throwing the baby out with the bath water. Well there is nothing wrong with dual springs and they can survive a break. There are a plethora of them that will work well and have appropriate pressure and spring pack installed height / coil bind.

[hd-dude]

Jim, any guess what that build would have done with the Tman 600 instead of the 625? Really curious as to what difference the earlier intake close would make

The 600 and 625 are very close spec wise. I would not expect a huge difference, maybe a few less ponies and torque. Honestly I have not used the 600 but done many successful builds with the 625 so just stuck with it for this one.

[prodrag1320]

What is the benefit replacing the stock 110 springs with beehives?

the SE springs have too much seat pressure and will accelerate the wear of the lifter rollers,have been using beehive springs for years on 110 as well as stock casting port jobs (100`s if not 1000`s of sets)never had a problem. we used AV&V in the past,using KIBBLEWHITE now,no real reason,but I can get KIBBLEWHITE thru drag specialties.i can only think if they broke,the wrong spring was used for that given application,not shimmed right,ect

[prodrag1320]

"They" say that the double stock 110 springs are too stiff.   "They" say to put in AV&V springs.

So I did.  "MY" bike is in the shop with a broken AV&V beehive spring and bent valve.

I wish I could find "They" so "They" could pay for my 113 build.

instead of blaming "they",ide blame "the" builder who either used the wrong springs or set them up wrong

[wfolarry]

I agree with Kirby. I like the beehive springs. When Harley first started using them everybody panicked & said they were no good. Thousands of bikes later nobody complains. I've had some failures early on with different manufacturers but now it seems everybody has the process dialed in. I use AV&V or PAC springs. Set up right they're very reliable. Set them up wrong & they can break just like any other spring. And let's not forget how many cars are on the road with these springs. You don't see cars lined up at the dealership for new springs do you? If a spring breaks I'd be looking for the cause instead of just blaming the spring.
As far as double springs go if a spring breaks the other spring will keep the valve in place if the bike is idling. At 6000 rpm there is a total loss of valve control & there will be just as much damage. Maybe more.
All the beehive springs that I've seen break have never lost the valve. I've seen more stock retainers break then springs break.

[r0de_runr]

I agree with Kirby. I like the beehive springs. When Harley first started using them everybody panicked & said they were no good. Thousands of bikes later nobody complains. I've had some failures early on with different manufacturers but now it seems everybody has the process dialed in. I use AV&V or PAC springs. Set up right they're very reliable. Set them up wrong & they can break just like any other spring. And let's not forget how many cars are on the road with these springs. You don't see cars lined up at the dealership for new springs do you? If a spring breaks I'd be looking for the cause instead of just blaming the spring.
As far as double springs go if a spring breaks the other spring will keep the valve in place if the bike is idling. At 6000 rpm there is a total loss of valve control & there will be just as much damage. Maybe more.
All the beehive springs that I've seen break have never lost the valve. I've seen more stock retainers break then springs break.

You have my heads right now, or just finished them.  Be gentle!  From Nick.

[wfolarry]

You have my heads right now, or just finished them.  Be gentle!  From Nick.

You'll be fine as long as you stay off the internet. 😎

[HD Street Performance]

instead of blaming "they",ide blame "the" builder who either used the wrong springs or set them up wrong

I would expect this is where this would go. Setting them up is not rocket science and all that I set up were within the manufacturers specifications when they left my shop. I offer my experience for the help of others but can only control what I do myself.
By the way the stock springs, not recommending these, have less seat pressure than either an AV&V beehive, the 600 or the 650 lift versions. It isn't until about .300 lift that they cross over and then the beehives have less over the nose. I can measure them both if anyone is interested.

[Yellow09SERG]

The 600 and 625 are very close spec wise. I would not expect a huge difference, maybe a few less ponies and torque. Honestly I have not used the 600 but done many successful builds with the 625 so just stuck with it for this one.

Thank you Jim

[prodrag1320]

I would expect this is where this would go. Setting them up is not rocket science and all that I set up were within the manufacturers specifications when they left my shop. I offer my experience for the help of others but can only control what I do myself.
By the way the stock springs, not recommending these, have less seat pressure than either an AV&V beehive, the 600 or the 650 lift versions. It isn't until about .300 lift that they cross over and then the beehives have less over the nose. I can measure them both if anyone is interested.

I was in no way referring to you,also had no idea the guys heads with broke springs came from your shop either.

[newseultra07]

I'm wanting my bike back, Its been at the builder for a month now. Waiting on the heads to get done & I'm getting impatient. Hoping its gonna be done in time so i can go to the LSR in Galveston...