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[ultrafxr]

How's the clutch feel of the F+ vs. something like SYN3?

How can the fluid migrate from the transmission to the primary?

Now I know primary & tranny fluid is right nextdoor to motor oil as far as firmly held opinions go.  I can only speak to my personal experience using Syn 3, Red Line primary & tranny oils, and Formula +.  Frankly I cannot tell much difference.  I will say that my later model H-Ds have been much improved as far as the first gear clunk and smooth shifting is concerned.  Perhaps a different lubricant does in fact aid older model bikes.

As far as fluid migrating from the tranny to the primary - it's a known problem at least since the 2014MY.  Here's a recent link from right here on the forum:
https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=114392.0

Of course my remark was an attempt at humor - dark humor, but humor nonetheless.

[grc]

How's the clutch feel of the F+ vs. something like SYN3?

How can the fluid migrate from the transmission to the primary?

A relatively recent issue where the fluid bypass the input shaft oil seal and winds up in the primary.  There's a thread around here talking about it, late model Twin Cams and 2017 and up M8's.

As for engagement feel with ATF, I haven't noticed a significant difference.  Of course I'm running a 2005 so my results may not mean much to someone with a 2007 and later primary and clutch.

Jerry

[J.D.]

Thanks for the information.  Mine's a 2002 and I'm not current on some of the recent issues.  I've been fortunate I suppose with pretty much issue-free compensator and clutch performance.

Lots of good information here to digest.  Thanks to everyone who responded.  Found a lot of good internet chatter about ATF as well.

All things considered, I will say I'm leaning toward sticking with the wet clutch compatible 10w-40 or 20w-50 (apparently JASO MA spec) motor oil but haven't yet made a final decision.

[johnsachs]

Mobil 1 Automatic Trans Fluid.  Auto trans fluids have to be fully compatible with clutches, since the average AT has several internal clutch packs.  They also have to lubricate chains and gears and operate under high heat and load conditions.

I've tried many fluids over the years and the ATF has done the best job of reducing the Harley clutch drag issue, resulting in smoother shifting.

Jerry

Best answer on this thread. It doesn't have to be Mobil 1. Any good ATF will get the job done. If it doesn't you have another problem not related to fluid.
John

[rigidorbust]

thinking ATF would hurt the compensator. 

[J.D.]

My thinking is the ATF is very low viscosity since it needs to be pumped in a conventional auto transmission.

In our primitive primaries, too thick of course you'll start to see clutch engagement issues but too thin you might lose some of the desirable lubrication properties.

Fortunately oil technology has progressed to the point where alot of lubricants meet multiple requirements (i.e. SYN3).  So then we have the luxury of picking our favorite based on whatever criteria is most important.

[grc]

thinking ATF would hurt the compensator.

The 2007 and later compensator issues aren't caused by the lubricant, they are caused by a bad design.  Harley relies on splash lubrication (lube is thrown around the primary chaincase due to the action of the chain and sprockets), and the design of the compensator didn't allow lubricant to get into some of the highest wear areas.  Get enough lube into those areas, and use harder and smoother surfaces for the sliding elements, and the problems would most likely be history.

JMHO - Jerry

[r0de_runr]

One would think if the Motor Company thought they could make more money selling ATF for the primary they would specify it in the owner's manual.

[J.D.]

I believe the SYN3 "program" is designed to maximize profit.

Any factory lubricants and maintenance recommendations have to strike a balance between economy and reliability.  With that said, the MoCo likely doesn't want these bikes to last too long as there's alot of money in both service and new sales.

[skratch]

Is that the "wet clutch" spec (jaso)?

Edit: looks like the "wet clutch" compatible spec is JASO MA or JASO MA2.  Is this correct?

there is ma, mb, and ma2.  ma2 is a newer specification.

[J.D.]

So then MB you wouldn't want to use in the primary, correct?

[skratch]

yep, you're right.  mb is recommended for scooters.  the rotella that i use is ma rated.

[J.D.]

Based on this link (https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php) it seems the JASO MA2 spec motor oils would offer the best friction characteristics for wet clutch use.

I liked the cold feel of the Valvoline synthetic 10w-40 bit like the idea of having the thicker 20w-50 when good and hot.

I would also like to stay under $10/qt.

I don't really see any immediate advantage to switching to the lighter Red Line MTL ($20/qt) or even lighter yet ATF ($11/qt).

What I decided on this time is Castrol full synthetic motorcycle 10w-50.  Viscosity specs would indicate it is just a bit more viscous than the Valvoline 10w-40 cold and just a bit less viscous than the 20w-50 when hot, but close.  It also meets the JASO MA2 spec.  Reviews from other (non-Harley) power sports websites would suggest people are happy with their clutch feel and performance on this oil.  Best part is I was able to find it online for well under $10/qt.

[Texas 103]

The 2007 and later compensator issues aren't caused by the lubricant, they are caused by a bad design.  Harley relies on splash lubrication (lube is thrown around the primary chaincase due to the action of the chain and sprockets), and the design of the compensator didn't allow lubricant to get into some of the highest wear areas.  Get enough lube into those areas, and use harder and smoother surfaces for the sliding elements, and the problems would most likely be history.

JMHO - Jerry

X-2, what little lubricant gets there, they recommend lubricant  should be GL1 rated, not sure about ATF.   RL is GL-5, HD formula plus is GL-3.  I threw a Copmpensaver in mine , to compensate..( no pun intended) for HD 's lack of engineering ..maybe it will live a little longer..

[Eng13]

Mobil 1 ATF is what i run after a clutch change i have built manual and automatic transmissions and gear drives it makes sense think about it would you put motor oil in your automatic transmission? this is what works for me.
RIDE SAFE...