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[2017 CVO STREET GLIDE]

I bought a brand new 2017 CVO streetglide and it sumped Oil bad and now has pretty much seized up the flywheel and rods. The journals are all scored up ect. Been on the phone for 2 days now and harley clearly told me it’s not a problem with there bikes and that there not gonna help me at all. Well I forgot to say that I have $75,000 into this bike all New from harley. I will never buy a Harley again even if they were to come back and say they will fix it and I hope that anyone reading this takes this serious and steers clear of Harley Davidson as you will not be taken care of what’s so ever. This was my very first bike I’ve ever owned and also the worst customer service I’ve ever experienced in my 45 years on this earth. This has Just been the worst thing ever. I feel all of us with this issue which is hundreds of people should all get an attorney together and get this rip off company to take care of us.

[Heatwave]

I bought a brand new 2017 CVO streetglide and it sumped Oil bad and now has pretty much seized up the flywheel and rods. The journals are all scored up ect. Been on the phone for 2 days now and harley clearly told me it’s not a problem with there bikes and that there not gonna help me at all. Well I forgot to say that I have $75,000 into this bike all New from harley. I will never buy a Harley again even if they were to come back and say they will fix it and I hope that anyone reading this takes this serious and steers clear of Harley Davidson as you will not be taken care of what’s so ever. This was my very first bike I’ve ever owned and also the worst customer service I’ve ever experienced in my 45 years on this earth. This has Just been the worst thing ever. I feel all of us with this issue which is hundreds of people should all get an attorney together and get this rip off company to take care of us.

Can you share a few more details? What did you have done to the bike's drivetrain that involved spending $75,000?

[deldago]

Says stage 4 in stats. Probably another dealer that said don't worry about the warranty as long as we do the upgrades and never put it in writing. When claim was submitted they sent an inspector and dealer claimed to not know anything about covering it. Just a guess but a highly likely one knowing Harley and most of it's "dealer" organization.

[KGB]

I'm guessing removed front pipe and installed aftermarket header with slip on's and aftermarket tuner, that will be Harleys excuse to get out of a known problem with no known repair 

[Heatwave]

I'm guessing removed front pipe and installed aftermarket header with slip on's and aftermarket tuner, that will be Harleys excuse to get out of a known problem with no known repair 

I suspect alot more than just a stage IV, tuner and exhaust if he spent $75K on a CVO SG.

[flhse]

Gonna get a new CVO Street Glide and want to know if getting the 117 stage 4 kit that now has the heads is a good choice? My plan is to get V&H power dauls with high output slip ons and a TTS tuner. The dealer said I would still get my 2 year warranty if I did this with the bike purchase. I am gonna be traveling with this bike more then around town. Gave up dirt track racing for this new hobby so I'm a power hungry type. All the help is appreciated either way. Warranty is not my concern the usability of this second addition Stage 4 kit is though.
Thanks Allot
Bill

Looks like a lot has changed over the last year.  Think this was covered well in this thread:  https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=111244.msg1420969#msg1420969

[iski]

 

[PFWiz]

Unless he welded another CVO SG to the top of his I really can't believe he spent $75,00 on all Harley parts.
Actually in his other thread he states that it is not all Harley parts. While he may have a legit beef with the dealer he doesn't have a leg to stand on against mothership.

His post just shows how clueless he is....

[Heatwave]

Yeah...alot of guys talk crap that they don't care about the warranty.... that is until they make significant engine upgrades and all of sudden the engine pukes ... then the MoCo is the problem.

[2017 CVO STREET GLIDE]

Unless he welded another CVO SG to the top of his I really can't believe he spent $75,00 on all Harley parts.
Actually in his other thread he states that it is not all Harley parts. While he may have a legit beef with the dealer he doesn't have a leg to stand on against mothership.

His post just shows how clueless he is....

Why so negative towards my post. I will get a list to show you why I have that much in the bike. I will get that to you ASAP. 1 tow Bill was $1,200 to get bike towed for a sumping issue and yes that included as none would of been spent if it wouldn’t sump.

[Heatwave]

Just seems odd that you clearly built the bike's engine up and stated that the warranty was of no concern to you. But now the MoCo is the bad guy because they won't honor your warranty request. Which is it? I feel your pain with the damaged engine but based on your original posts the costs were of no issue.

[2017 CVO STREET GLIDE]

Just seems odd that you clearly built the bike's engine up and stated that the warranty was of no concern to you. But now the MoCo is the bad guy because they won't honor your warranty request. Which is it? I feel your pain with the damaged engine but based on your original posts the costs were of no issue.

The cost isn’t the issue as I’m fixing it now a second time on my own it’s the point here. I got a stage 4 done before I ever left with the bike that’s what’s all been done to motor.

[2017 CVO STREET GLIDE]

The cost isn’t the issue as I’m fixing it now a second time on my own it’s the point here. I got a stage 4 done before I ever left with the bike that’s what’s all been done to motor.

The bike was covered the first time for parts only but nothing has changed in the performance area since then. There’s more to the story both ways and I’m not gonna sit here and explain to you I just posted adding to the many others that are having the same problem as me.

[skratch]

I’m not gonna sit here and explain to you I just posted adding to the many others that are having the same problem as me.

kind of disingenuous on your part to throw out a blanket statement like 'Harley is the worst company ever', and then not fully explain why.

would also like to know what they are telling you (other than 'nope'), and what you have done to your bike, what aftermarket parts have you added?  did you do an aftermarket tune which is clearly outlined in your owner's manual as voiding the warranty?

[Heatwave]

I understand. Good luck with whatever direction you go.

[muddypaws]

For my 2017 the dealer said be very careful with what you do as upgrades if you need warranty service.

[iski]

For my 2017 the dealer said be very careful with what you do as upgrades if you need warranty service.

Got the same info.  Aftermarket tuner, no warranty, aftermarket parts, same deal.

[Twolanerider]

Got the same info.  Aftermarket tuner, no warranty, aftermarket parts, same deal.

For my new bik.... oh, wait, what am I thinking.....   

[iski]

For my new bik.... oh, wait, what am I thinking.....   

 

Can save you the trip to the dealer:  They all do that.  That sound is perfectly normal.  You need to use Genuine Harley Davidson oil, wax, blinker fluid, and bottled air from Milwaukee, WI on a 72 degree day for your tires to be balanced correctly.  Also, you already voided your warranty when you sat on your seat wearing non Harley Davidson jeans and put non HD boots on the pegs.

 

[mjb765]

I would be curious what you could spend $75K on.......even $40K on top of the original bike......some work in the motor other than Stage IV..if that is the case then the warranty is out the window. Did anybody say what caused the problem in the first place?

[Para Bellum]

I hope that anyone reading this takes this serious and steers clear of Harley Davidson as you will not be taken care of what’s so ever. This was my very first bike I’ve ever owned and also the worst customer service I’ve ever experienced in my 45 years on this earth. This has Just been the worst thing ever.

Looks like Harley and/or a dealer just made another customer-for-life.   

[Mr. Warlock]

..... Paul Harvey....... And...THE REST OF THE STORY................... 

[grc]

..... Paul Harvey....... And...THE REST OF THE STORY................... 

I don't think the rest of the story is forthcoming.

As someone who has been saying similar things about H-D for more than ten years now, I can understand and commiserate with the anger and frustration with both their severe lack of quality and reliability as well as their customer disservice.  Without the total background on this story, I have no idea if this is just one more instance of Harley blowing someone off just to avoid paying for their sorry quality, or if the customer somehow managed to tick off the folks he dealt with and they decided to get even.  I've known H-D to give different answers to different people with the same problems, so they aren't exactly consistent in their policies.  I kind of knew when the EPA consent agreement thing came along that people at Harley would use it against some customers while still playing the wink and nod game with others.  From what I've been reading over the past year I'd say I was right.  Some people with illegal mods have claimed on this site they still had defective engines repaired or replaced under warranty, but others have claimed the opposite.  Nothing really changes at the MoCo.

I continue to take my own advice and refuse to buy anything from H-D, even a T-shirt.  I was willing to reconsider if they demonstrated a commitment to improving quality, reliability, and customer service, but over the past ten years all they've shown me is the opposite.

JMHO - Jerry

[2ROWDY]

I'm having a hard time feeling any sympathy here. First post in the other thread clearly said warranty is not my concern.

[ultrarider123]

This has been an interesting thread to follow.  I remember the first one from the OP (and went back to read again) so first off, if 2017 CVO Street Glide (Bill) wasn't worried about his warranty with the mods to begin with, he shouldn't be concerned about it when something goes wrong.  Looking back, the original subject received input that warned him about aftermarket mods and the loss of said warranty with aftermarket mods so he knew the deal going into this game.

If the dealer actually did tell him they would honor his warranty even after the mods and then recanted when the caca hit the fan, bad on them.  However, the OP was warned not to trust the dealer's statements either.

We aren't privy to the conversations between the OP/dealer/HD so we only have the OP side of the story.  Ranting on this site is a given.  He has every right to be upset that his applecart was turned over as we all are from time to time.  However, he can't say he went in blind to the facts.

The MoCo has had and it appears will continue to have issues with customer service, reliability, manufacturing defects due to faulty choices and/or poor workmanship in their 3rd party suppliers, etc.  The MoCo got their hand slapped/wallet drained by the EPA and 2017 was the first lock down of this type of issue.  The OP knew it going into his purchase so the MoCo, in this instance, followed the warranty guidelines and owners manual warning to the consumer...warranty will be void if.... 

It's like touching the 500 degree plate at Ruth Chris when the waiter/waitress had already warned you it was hot.  It stings but it's on us for not heeding the warnings of the experienced.

[J.D.]

This is both sad and interesting to read, with alot of well written posts.

Bottom line is they have a sumping problem on the M8 engine, that is independent of the tune used.  It's a very weasely position taken by the moco to avoid responsibility due to the aftermarket tune, even if stated up front.  People shelling out CVO money deserve better.  JMHO.

[Heatwave]

This is both sad and interesting to read, with alot of well written posts.

Bottom line is they have a sumping problem on the M8 engine, that is independent of the tune used.  It's a very weasely position taken by the moco to avoid responsibility due to the aftermarket tune, even if stated up front.  People shelling out CVO money deserve better.  JMHO.

I tend to very much agree with these statements. From my perspective, if there was a recall for safety or mechanical failure, the recall would be handled at no charge REGARDLESS of any and all modifications to the bike. The "weasely position" you reference, IMO, is the fact that Harley has NOT made the oil sumping and transmission fluid transfer issues into recalls. These are well known significant defects that appear to be occurring in a high enough percent of the new M8 bikes to warrant appropriate action under the terms of a recall, NOT under the terms of the warranty.

In fact, I'm quite confident that low mileage 2017 and 2018 bikes will undoubtedly have sumping engine failures and transmission fluid transfer problems well AFTER their factory warranty has expired. These failures will occur on 2017/2018 M8 stock, harley-modified and after-market modified bikes well into the future. For those bike owners that don't discover these significant failure points until after 2 yrs into their ownership, they are going to find themselves in the exact same place as this OP (assuming they don't have an extended warranty).

That being said, HD is a business that's struggling so no one should be surprised when they take the absolute least costly approach to issues they are experiencing, even if it burns some customer bridges in both the short and long term.

[JCZ]

I don't think the rest of the story is forthcoming.

As someone who has been saying similar things about H-D for more than ten years now, I can understand and commiserate with the anger and frustration with both their severe lack of quality and reliability as well as their customer disservice.  Without the total background on this story, I have no idea if this is just one more instance of Harley blowing someone off just to avoid paying for their sorry quality, or if the customer somehow managed to tick off the folks he dealt with and they decided to get even.  I've known H-D to give different answers to different people with the same problems, so they aren't exactly consistent in their policies.  I kind of knew when the EPA consent agreement thing came along that people at Harley would use it against some customers while still playing the wink and nod game with others.  From what I've been reading over the past year I'd say I was right.  Some people with illegal mods have claimed on this site they still had defective engines repaired or replaced under warranty, but others have claimed the opposite.  Nothing really changes at the MoCo.

I continue to take my own advice and refuse to buy anything from H-D, even a T-shirt.  I was willing to reconsider if they demonstrated a commitment to improving quality, reliability, and customer service, but over the past ten years all they've shown me is the opposite.

JMHO - Jerry

 

I think you've said it well Jerry. 

If this isn't my last motorcycle, here's my future (not that BMWs don't have their issues, but nothing like HD)....

 https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=114990.msg1461371#msg1461371

[Designflaw]

Not that this helps at all, but direct from Harleys Settlement with the EPA which is available at www.epa.gov - I recommend everyone read the Decree. It interesting at best. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-12/documents/harleydavidson-cd.pdf

"14. Denial of Warranty
A. Defendants shall deny all warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley Davidson Vehicle (model year 2017 or later) registered in the United States, if any defendants have information to show that such vehicle was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA."

So, no matter how friendly your Dealer is, MoCo paid 12 Mil and agreed to the above. I also learned that when they are plugged into the HD Service Computer they report the mapping without the Tech being able to do anything about it. The Decree even notes that Dealers with that knowledge must also comply.

As far as aftermarket parts, its still per the Mag/Moss ruling. But tuning is no game anymore.

I bought the extended warranty because of some of the stories I have heard and for 35,000 I care to keep it. I will be changing my exhaust, but will stay with the HD Tuner until I'm tired and ready to change more.

[iski]

For me the worst company by far is Comcast.  Harley may have it's problems, but when it comes to Comcast, HD is not even in the race.

[ultrafxr]

For me the worst company by far is Comcast.  Harley may have it's problems, but when it comes to Comcast, HD is not even in the race.

I totally agree with that statement.  So now they call themselves Xfinity and think all the negatives will be erased.  Maybe the moco can change their name to Hawree-DMW and all the problems will magically disappear.

[Heatwave]

Not that this helps at all, but direct from Harleys Settlement with the EPA which is available at www.epa.gov - I recommend everyone read the Decree. It interesting at best. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-12/documents/harleydavidson-cd.pdf

"14. Denial of Warranty
A. Defendants shall deny all warranty claims for functional defects of powertrain components for any Harley Davidson Vehicle (model year 2017 or later) registered in the United States, if any defendants have information to show that such vehicle was tuned using a Tuning Product that was not covered by a California ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA."

So, no matter how friendly your Dealer is, MoCo paid 12 Mil and agreed to the above. I also learned that when they are plugged into the HD Service Computer they report the mapping without the Tech being able to do anything about it. The Decree even notes that Dealers with that knowledge must also comply.

As far as aftermarket parts, its still per the Mag/Moss ruling. But tuning is no game anymore.

I bought the extended warranty because of some of the stories I have heard and for 35,000 I care to keep it. I will be changing my exhaust, but will stay with the HD Tuner until I'm tired and ready to change more.

Most everyone on this forum is familiar with the EPA Consent Decree. Its been regurgitated endlessly. The point being made is that the engine sumping failures and transmission fluid transfer should NOT be assessed as warranty claims.  These major bike defects should be evaluated as recalls due to the extensive rate of occurence and extensive damage potential.

Let’s put it in simple terms. If you own a stock 2017/18 bike and you only ride it sporadicly accumulating let’s say 2000 miles in 2 yrs. You didn’t buy the ESP but you followed all the rules and kept the bike fully stock.

After 25 months of ownership, you now take a long trip on the bike. The engine sumps because it has the earliest oil pump which is known by HD to be defective. The engine seizes due to lack of lubrication as a direct result of the defective oil pump. Do you believe that HD owes you a new engine even though you are no longer in the warranty period? You bet your sweet azz you expect them to provide a new engine....WHY?? Because you think it should have been a recall.

Sounds like the situation that the OP is in even though he’s modified the bike. I GUARANTEE there will be guys that sadly find themselves in this exact situation. No one has experienced this event because the M8 isn’t 2yrs old yet. But come this Fall and even more so in the Spring of 2019, there will be many sad examples of guys with engine failures due to a known engine defect that will have no repair coverage from HD. Hopefully no one reading these words will be one of them.

[Para Bellum]

That being said, HD is a business that's struggling so no one should be surprised when they take the absolute least costly approach to issues they are experiencing, even if it burns some customer bridges in both the short and long term.

No doubt HD agrees completely with the explanation above, but I'm not feeling a lot of sympathy for this aspect of their problem.  Sure, part of their problem is caused by the aging of their main buyers, but part of their decreased sales are due to their quality problems and the premium price they charge. 

In large part, that's due to Wandell's (their previous CEO) deliberate strategy to cut the price of every component and assembly process that goes into the bike...leading directly to a decrease in quality...while increasing the already-premium price.  Add in the lousy warranty service, failure to do recalls due to manufacturing/design defects, and the high cost of parts and service...well, the new CEO inherited the $hit $how, and he's between a rock and a bulldozer.

[trahog]

my buddy is on his 7th motor 2017 cvo stage 4 kit ,sumping again

[1roadking]

Glad I stayed with my 2016 LOL. It’s hard to believe they can’t figure out a oil pump issue. Why wouldn’t they just pull the big bore kits until they figure this out! If this problem is a design flaw, all the bikes will eventually sump. I can’t believe this not a recall and priority number 1 right now.

[lyn.husen]

Just a few more reasons why I will stick with my 2009 FLTRSE3, and of course it’s paid for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KGB]

my buddy is on his 7th motor 2017 cvo stage 4 kit ,sumping again

I think if I was on my 7th motor, I would want it bought back and refunded every penny I spent on that purchase along with jackets, helmets etc.

That's just unbelievable 7 motors 

[scottt]

No doubt HD agrees completely with the explanation above, but I'm not feeling a lot of sympathy for this aspect of their problem.  Sure, part of their problem is caused by the aging of their main buyers, but part of their decreased sales are due to their quality problems and the premium price they charge. 

In large part, that's due to Wandell's (their previous CEO) deliberate strategy to cut the price of every component and assembly process that goes into the bike...leading directly to a decrease in quality...while increasing the already-premium price.  Add in the lousy warranty service, failure to do recalls due to manufacturing/design defects, and the high cost of parts and service...well, the new CEO inherited the $hit $how, and he's between a rock and a bulldozer.

Harleys problem is bigger than an aging customer base. Part of there problem is competitive. I owned and rode Harleys for 28 years, when BMW introduced the new K1600B or Bagger I was intrigued by the design, when I test rode it I was sold. Bought one the next day. 6cyl putting out 160hp along with comfort, handling and modern features I longed for on my Harleys.

Since buying my BMW I have met several other guys that have done the same.

It's nice buying a new bike with more performance than any V-Twin, regardless of the stage kit. That rides and handles as you expect with stock suspension. Could go on and on but you get the picture.

Still love Harleys but accept there limitations. By the way, my new 18 BMW K1600B has not had a single warranty issue. It's built so well I really don't expect problems. If I do, I was able to buy a 6 year extended service contract with no deductible and unlimited miles for $1500.

My point, Harley has competition like never before, not just from BMW, from Indian, Honda, Yamaha, on and on.

Harley needs to up there game. Build top quality bikes backed with great service. They need to be the "Snap On" of motorcycles.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

[aclass]

I'm with iski and lyn.husen on both accounts.

[Robmay]

I’m in the boat Heatwave mentioned. Have a 2017 SG with barely 1200 miles on it. Ride mainly 2 up and take the RG ultra most rides/trips. SG will be 2 years old this fall. Does the extended warranty cover the bike with aftermarket header pipe and mufflers? I have the HD tuner. All purchased and installed by the dealer (not that that seems to make a difference anymore).

Rob

[r0de_runr]

I recently traded my 2012 CVO SG for a 2018 Softail ANN Heritage.  By 3900 miles or so it was using a quart of oil in about 750 miles.  Took it in and turned it in.  Waiting for my ride back I spot a 2014 Ultra Limited, Daytona blue.  3500 unmodified miles.

I traded straight across and couldn't be happier so far.  No more M8 for me.

[CVOStreetglide]

I’m in the boat Heatwave mentioned. Have a 2017 SG with barely 1200 miles on it. Ride mainly 2 up and take the RG ultra most rides/trips. SG will be 2 years old this fall. Does the extended warranty cover the bike with aftermarket header pipe and mufflers? I have the HD tuner. All purchased and installed by the dealer (not that that seems to make a difference anymore).

Rob

Rob:

Maybe at the selling dealer but things are very sticky with the warranty people. As you have read here they are inclined to deny claims with aftermarket addons especially tuners and pipes.

Regards

Jerry

[Heatwave]

Rob:

Maybe at the selling dealer but things are very sticky with the warranty people. As you have read here they are inclined to deny claims with aftermarket addons especially tuners and pipes.

Regards

Jerry

Its worth noting the T&Cs vary significantly between the Factory warranty and the HD ESP or even other aftermarket extended warranties. The factory warranty makes specific reference to non-epa approved tuners, non-epa approved exhaust and aftermarket engine components as grounds for rejecting a warranty claim AND also grounds for voiding both the 2yr Factory Warranty AND the HD ESP.

However after the the 2 yr Factory warranty has expired the T&Cs of the ESP or aftermarket extended warranty come into effect and the MOCO is out of the picture since the ESP is administered by a third party company (CSP - Continental Service Provider). Specifically the ESP clearly states the following under "Non-covered conditions":

"Your motorcycle if it has been modified with any aftermarket and/or non-street legal alterations to the powertrain, the suspension (including tire or wheel sizes) and/or a non-EPA approved compliant Exhaust system if the ESP claim was caused or contributed to by the modification or the non-compliant system."

That's a different standard for denying a claim than HD uses to deny factory warranty claims. Factory warranty claims can be denied if any of the non-EPA components are found to be present. The extended warranty claim rejection standard requires that the non-epa parts must have "caused or contributed" to the failure that is being submitted for warranty coverage. Very different standards once the factory warranty has expired and a bike has moved into the extended warranty coverage period.

[CVOStreetglide]

Its worth noting the T&Cs vary significantly between the Factory warranty and the HD ESP or even other aftermarket extended warranties. The factory warranty makes specific reference to non-epa approved tuners, non-epa approved exhaust and aftermarket engine components as grounds for rejecting a warranty claim AND also grounds for voiding both the 2yr Factory Warranty AND the HD ESP.

However after the the 2 yr Factory warranty has expired the T&Cs of the ESP or aftermarket extended warranty come into effect and the MOCO is out of the picture since the ESP is administered by a third party company (CSP - Continental Service Provider). Specifically the ESP clearly states the following under "Non-covered conditions":

"Your motorcycle if it has been modified with any aftermarket and/or non-street legal alterations to the powertrain, the suspension (including tire or wheel sizes) and/or a non-EPA approved compliant Exhaust system if the ESP claim was caused or contributed to by the modification or the non-compliant system."

That's a different standard for denying a claim than HD uses to deny factory warranty claims. Factory warranty claims can be denied if any of the non-EPA components are found to be present. The extended warranty claim rejection standard requires that the non-epa parts must have "caused or contributed" to the failure that is being submitted for warranty coverage. Very different standards once the factory warranty has expired and a bike has moved into the extended warranty coverage period.

I am very concerned that the “next step” will be we will only take your bike in on trade or give you a trade value after we confirm that no mods have been made.

Soon dealers will only be placing used bikes on the floor that conform to the statement
“This bike conforms to all existing government laws and regulations.”

That will put a huge dent in the aftermarket parts and performance business for sure.

[Heatwave]

I am very concerned that the “next step” will be we will only take your bike in on trade or give you a trade value after we confirm that no mods have been made.

Soon dealers will only be placing used bikes on the floor that conform to the statement
“This bike conforms to all existing government laws and regulations.”

That will put a huge dent in the aftermarket parts and performance business for sure.

Not likely. The only thing a dealer cares about when taking a trade is can they get it for next to nothing from you and sell it above retail to someone else. Being compliant is completely irrelevant. Just needs to meet local State laws for passing inspection, if there is one.

[happyman]

I bought a brand new 2017 CVO streetglide and it sumped Oil bad and now has pretty much seized up the flywheel and rods. The journals are all scored up ect. Been on the phone for 2 days now and harley clearly told me it’s not a problem with there bikes and that there not gonna help me at all. Well I forgot to say that I have $75,000 into this bike all New from harley. I will never buy a Harley again even if they were to come back and say they will fix it and I hope that anyone reading this takes this serious and steers clear of Harley Davidson as you will not be taken care of what’s so ever. This was my very first bike I’ve ever owned and also the worst customer service I’ve ever experienced in my 45 years on this earth. This has Just been the worst thing ever. I feel all of us with this issue which is hundreds of people should all get an attorney together and get this rip off company to take care of us.

that's bad to say the least.

[dayne66]

The more I know about Harley and their dealers....the more I think I'll just keep my 2012 FLHXSE3 running with as many non-Harley parts and service as possible!

[SDCVO]

I will say one thing, through all the issues I am having with my M8, my dealer has been fantastic. Met with the GM and service MGR today and they couldn't be more "stand up" through this whole deal.
Obviously they didn't design and build the bike and they are doing everything they can to help me resolve this.

[iski]

Worked for a company in the late 90s, had been a very good company with reliable products.  It was bought out & the new owners decided to maximize profit by making everything cheaper. We went from good to one of the worst companies in the business, product failures were a daily occurrence, before we might have had 1 or less per month.  Out new motto became:  it's how we respond to the problem that's important. We gotta fix it.   Worked for almost a year, then customers lost patience. As they left the new company decided it was the customer's fault that our poorly made products were failing.  They backed off on customer support & lost most of their business.  As a part of that process, they lost most of their good employees in every department.  When I left - resigned in disgust - they had lost 60% of their business & sold out.  Fun times.  The HD dealers who care are stuck in that mode - We gotta fix it because the company will not recall it etc.  Expensive decisions.  Less than fun. 

[happyman]

Worked for a company in the late 90s, had been a very good company with reliable products.  It was bought out & the new owners decided to maximize profit by making everything cheaper. We went from good to one of the worst companies in the business, product failures were a daily occurrence, before we might have had 1 or less per month.  Out new motto became:  it's how we respond to the problem that's important. We gotta fix it.   Worked for almost a year, then customers lost patience. As they left the new company decided it was the customer's fault that our poorly made products were failing.  They backed off on customer support & lost most of their business.  As a part of that process, they lost most of their good employees in every department.  When I left - resigned in disgust - they had lost 60% of their business & sold out.  Fun times.  The HD dealers who care are stuck in that mode - We gotta fix it because the company will not recall it etc.  Expensive decisions.  Less than fun.

remember the  day the evo came out.  that was a good deal, they had issues at first  but  HD  did the fix and you could ride these evo motors into the sunset  everyday and failure was a rare thing.   yes they did have some issues but for dam sure you did not keep going back and wonder if you were going to  make 100 mile on your sunday afternoon ride, and have to call a tow because your huge investment failed again and again and again and now your stuck with a piece of chit that appears to never see a real fix and the government is not doing a damned thing to force them to get the show on the road .
Yes the dealers  or at least some of them will and do work for you. they are depending on  HD to make this right to because the lively hood also depends on it and its a fact I salute those dealers who are not  living in denial and refuse to be honest and claim they have not heard of the issues  and or never seen it . How dare these people  try to deceive the people who are spending huge pile of money and not get told the truth it is shameful  to be very honest.

[iski]

remember the  day the evo came out.  that was a good deal, they had issues at first  but  HD  did the fix and you could ride these evo motors into the sunset  everyday and failure was a rare thing.   yes they did have some issues but for dam sure you did not keep going back and wonder if you were going to  make 100 mile on your sunday afternoon ride, and have to call a tow because your huge investment failed again and again and again and now your stuck with a piece of chit that appears to never see a real fix and the government is not doing a damned thing to force them to get the show on the road .
Yes the dealers  or at least some of them will and do work for you. they are depending on  HD to make this right to because the lively hood also depends on it and its a fact I salute those dealers who are not  living in denial and refuse to be honest and claim they have not heard of the issues  and or never seen it . How dare these people  try to deceive the people who are spending huge pile of money and not get told the truth it is shameful  to be very honest.

Remember evo had some issues early on, so did the twin cam.  These were eventually resolved with evo, twin cam has some lingering ones like lifters. Not sure on M8, stock M8s around here are ok, read a lot about stage 3 & 4 M8 problems.  Some dealers were telling customers the early sumping problems were solved with 2018 bike oil pump - not so.  Have left my newest bike bone stock, has plenty of power - for me - as is.  Almost anything we do to the power train voids the warranty. Priced an extended warranty recently at several dealers, cost has gone up a lot.   Expect that is due to claims going up.

Tough time to be in the MC business.  HD dealers did a lot of modifications for customers, expect that has slowed down a lot.  The dealers that care - and there are a lot of them - are in a tough spot.  Declining sales, fewer add ons, and increased competition. The dealers that do not care will just make hay while the sun shines and then cut their losses & bail when they think the timing is right.  Am expecting a decrease in HD dealer numbers as sales continue to drop.  Innovation - a true new and better mousetrap - could change that.  Not expecting that, am figuring on HD raising prices to maintain profits instead of "100 new and exciting models blah blah." 

[kojak]

Harley bashing has been around for ever. I love my 2017 m8 cvo limited. Almost 6k trouble free miles, I ride all my bikes hard. Taking it for a long road trip to cape Breton in another few weeks.  I remember all the Harley bashing that was going on in 2007 when I bought a cvo roadking .

[RonandJanet]

I am sure there are bad situations out there. I have said this before, most forums had a lot of negative comments about whatever the forum is for. When you are unhappy you post something.  People that don't have issues are not posting. I love my bike and the dealer support I have had is great.  I know some dealers are not good and some bikes clearly have issues. I see the same things in my Yamaha jet boat forum.  The good thing is the forum can provide information and support on how to handle the issue, the dealer and even HD.

[happyman]

I am sure there are bad situations out there. I have said this before, most forums had a lot of negative comments about whatever the forum is for. When you are unhappy you post something.  People that don't have issues are not posting. I love my bike and the dealer support I have had is great.  I know some dealers are not good and some bikes clearly have issues. I see the same things in my Yamaha jet boat forum.  The good thing is the forum can provide information and support on how to handle the issue, the dealer and even HD.

so if your read information  that I informative your labeling it negative??  wow

[RonandJanet]

Information is always good and helpful. My point is more around recognizing that here (and anywhere) there will be posts of bad experiences and with the knowledge everyone has on this forum that problem can receive a lot of good feedback and suggestions on how to fix or handle the problem, work with the dealer, service, etc. What is sometimes hard to keep in mind that there are also many people who don't have problems and are not posting.  It is easy to get into eh thinking around how bad something is based since that is what many posts are about. I am simply suggesting there are lots of people that are not having problems.  Harley like any company/product will have issues but they also have many products that just run without issues.  Just my thoughts on how I keep things in perspective. 

[iski]

An example of this behavior is online restaurant or business reviews.  No matter how good the business or food is, somebody will give them 1 star & be mad about something.  Meanwhile a thousand people do not review the place because they had a good time, etc. & are not motivated to say so.  Human nature. If you read reviews & refuse to do business because of a negative or 2, not much out there. Especially applies to forums like this on products/service.  There are some exceptions.  If it's all or almost all negative reviews will tend to avoid a business because....if local in time they will go out of business.  This just happened to a couple of local restaurants that were lousy & over priced.

[Rooster]

It seems a company that has been around over 100 years should be delivering a lot more long straws than short ones.

[HighOnHD]

It seems a company that has been around over 100 years should be delivering a lot more long straws than short ones.

Maybe. Unless the government intervenes and bans straws altogether   

[Kclarke]

 $75K 😂🤣😂

[CVOFla]

You caint please everyone so you might as well please yourself! 

All I know is that I love my dealer here in Sanford Florida 

[Rooster]

Maybe. Unless the government intervenes and bans straws altogether   

good one