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[THEOZZ]

Looking and tuning my SERK 3 with the SERT, Rhinehart TD, KN filter. Dose anyon have one that's been Dyno tuned and could you post pics of the MAP AFR tables and the percentage of fuel and KPA's. Would be willing to send some cash your way if you have a file saved from a dyno tune. I'm going to have it tuned as soon as I can get away from work and would like to get it running cooler and better performance until I have a chance at getting it dyno tuned. I was told that the dealer just loads a canned map and makes a few changes then dynos without really giving a full tune and at $100 per hour I want a actual dyno tune. So it Looks like a trip in my near future to someone I can trust in doing a full blown tune.

Desparate in Lost America 
Randy

[Unbalanced]

Here is one from a 07 Ultra 110", Rinehart true duals with 2 1/4 baffles and SE A/C

[THEOZZ]

Thanks Harry wil try it when I find a USB to serial adapter that will work.

[Unbalanced]

Radio Shack or if you can find a Manhatten USB -> Serial conversion those work well also.   I use this one.

[Shovelhead Bob]

Here is one from a 07 Ultra 110", Rinehart true duals with 2 1/4 baffles and SE A/C

I have got to ask, and if I offend you or upset you, I am apologizing....

Who designed this map?

Reason I am asking is this....

#1. The map is designed for a stock head pipe system.... The True Dual map is from the Softail/Dyna Library (Shotgun/Shorty Duals)

#2. You don't "Tune" your bike by manipulating the DESIRED AFR TABLE, especialy as none of the VE's have been checked for accuracy.... The Desired AFR is just that, DESIRED... You have to achieve that target by updating the VE's by adding or deleting units of air, to get the optimum VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY (VE)... The 0% and 100% have been manipulated, and I can presume that this was just to affect Decel pop, as .5 AFR was taken away at 100% and .75 AFR was added at 0%.....

#3. Why is this map running in OPEN LOOP?? Except in 3 cells (20kPa @ 750, 1250 and 1500 rpm)..... Cruising at a "Theoretical" 13:1 is lousy for the wallet, and detrimental to improper sealing of the rings by having fuel wash in the cylinders.....

#4. No changes to the spark tables... Timing is so important to a quality tune, in regards to optimum performance and throttle response...

If you are wondering why I am saying this... I am a SERT Tech, and am a tuner for one of the members here..... My understanding and knowledge of the system is solid and well versed....

If you know someone with a Twinscan II, borrow it, and you will see how much more can be done to your map.... And the performance will be phenomonal....

[SBB]

Good post Bob!

Maybe I should start my post to Harry by apoligizing for questioning his post.
My calling B/S on B/S seems to offend him!
Being direct has always been best for me!
But I do like your approach!

 

[Unbalanced]

Shovelhead Bob,

This was a dyno for a 110" on this site by Bragging Rights.   THEOZZ needed a map to help him out, so I shared one with him.   This map ran with no problems and was safe to give him producing 105 hp and 86 hp.
And he OZZ said

I'm going to have it tuned as soon as I can get away from work and would like to get it running cooler and better performance until I have a chance at getting it dyno tuned.

Each bike is slightly different no matter if the components are exactly the same.   If he was just going to bypass the tune I probably wouldnt have posted this to get him by, but since he said he was going to get it tuned there was no harm in running this it is definately not a lean map.

If you have better that is safe to give him then go ahead and share it with him.   That is exactly what was done here.   The map is running in open loop, because that is how the tuner set it up for him.

Ron, changed from SERT / 255 to TMAX / 575, so there was no chance to do anything with the Twin Scan which I own one of now after he switched.

Actually I don't tune a bike this way I run the twin scan and use volumetric efficiency against target afr.
Although I did have issues with the cloosed loop bias and it's limit to bring down ratios, but that isnt the point here.

on the technical side of your questions:

When on a dyno I do fixed AFR at 13.0 to 1 and tune for flat fuel curve from 0- 40 percent throttle
From there I do sweeps and then once all the volumetrics are set correctly.  Also lets not forget to turn off the knock sensor.  Then go back in and put the VE fixes against the originating map and adjust the timing

Hope you have something to share for free with the guy, like this map that was in a bike and ran fine could it be better maybe, but it was just that something to help him out.

[Shovelhead Bob]

Shovelhead Bob,

This was a dyno for a 110" on this site by Bragging Rights.   THEOZZ needed a map to help him out, so I shared one with him.   This map ran with no problems and was safe to give him producing 105 hp and 86 hp. Sorry, but I am running up the Bravo Sierra Flag on that one....
And he OZZ said
Each bike is slightly different no matter if the components are exactly the same.   If he was just going to bypass the tune I probably wouldnt have posted this to get him by, but since he said he was going to get it tuned there was no harm in running this it is definately not a lean map. ?? How would you know.... The VE's DON'T correspond with Desired AFR... There is NO VALIDATION...

If you have better that is safe to give him then go ahead and share it with him.   That is exactly what was done here.   The map is running in open loop, because that is how the tuner set it up for him. The Tuner that set this map up is an idiot,, and knows NOTHING about the SERT.

Ron, changed from SERT / 255 to TMAX / 575, so there was no chance to do anything with the Twin Scan which I own one of now after he switched.

Actually I don't tune a bike this way I run the twin scan and use volumetric efficiency against target afr.
Although I did have issues with the cloosed loop bias and it's limit to bring down ratios, but that isnt the point here.

on the technical side of your questions:

When on a dyno I do fixed AFR at 13.0 to 1 and tune for flat fuel curve from 0- 40 percent throttle. Step Test at 30-40%, on a Dyno? Again, and sorry, but the Bravo Sierra Flag is in the Breeze on this one.... Step tests need only done from 2-25%, 30-100% is sweep...
From there I do sweeps and then once all the volumetrics are set correctly.  Also lets not forget to turn off the knock sensor.  Then go back in and put the VE fixes against the originating map and adjust the timing So you are telling me that you are leaving the DAFR table alone??? How are you "Targeting" a 13 AFR and "Quantifying" your VE Changes??

Hope you have something to share for free with the guy, like this map that was in a bike and ran fine could it be better maybe, but it was just that something to help him out.

Again, if you are pizzed at me for this, I am apologizing... But wher or who taught you to operate a Dyno and to Tune with a SERT?

[miker]

 

[Unbalanced]

Shovelhead bob,

Why would I be pizzed?  I am not beyond learning something especially if the information given to me was faulty.   Although I don't know you from adam, so I will take in the data given verify it and go on from there.

You not liking the map there is nothing I can do about that, except answer your questions.  I would hope if you have better you would help Ozz out since this is your primary job.   

The person explaining this to me was not the same person that did the map your commenting on.  In referencing dyno tuning methods, you are picking apart that Jim Vangundee said  up to 40% for sweeps and you say up to 30% for sweeps.    I can only go by what I have seen and been shown, so I will note your advice for future reference and try and verify it with Matt Grosch since he seems to be recognized as an expert and a good teacher from the people I have talked with. 

How are you "Targeting" a 13 AFR and "Quantifying" your VE Changes??

You set the AFR to 13 across the board then make your runs and print it out or look at it on the screen or if you have 2 computers it will make it easier to make changes to your VE's.   Then after you make your changes to the VE you make another run and verify with the sniffer if the changes made bring you to your target if not repeat. 

I also double check it with my twinscan II to verify the VE's are correct by using target afr command and the other tools that come within the program from Chris at Twin Tec.

When we did the steps we used the 2nd computer running in data mode to verify throttle position while using the throttle lock purchased through Dynojet to hold the throttle at X percentage.  After the VE's were set we set the closed loop bias tables. 

I am not familiar with the acronym DAFR, but the decell table was zerod out.   If you have other advice or comments that might be helpful please email me at cvoseeg@bellsouth.net.

[hogasm]

Shovelhead Bob, you talk like your a well educated person on tuning bikes, or blowing smoke up our azz, either on doesn't matter.

What would you do different? I learned a long time ago that every day one should learn something new. Teach me something and please don't blow smoke up my ass

[SBB]

Hey miker, I'm with you!
Maybe even a double bag of

 

or a
 

and wash it down with
  or 12


I like good entertainment.

Most of the entertainment I get is viewed from the rearview mirror!

But no way am i going to 

[miker]

I ain't never not liked learnin something.  I feel bad for those who know it all, they must be bored.

Miker

[SBB]

I ain't never not liked learnin something.  I feel bad for those who know it all, they must be bored.

Miker

I agree Mike!
Each day is a brand new day with something new to learn.
And I'm having a blast doing it. (just glad it's not a Buell Blast)
This Shovelhead Bob seems to know his stuff!

 

[hogasm]

I ain't never not liked learnin something.  I feel bad for those who know it all, they must be bored.

Miker

I totally agree with you there. I grew up on a farm, was taught that there is more than one way to skin a cat, but in the end you still have a skinned cat.

If someone teaches me one way to do something and then someone else says that there is another way then, show me. I will give your way a try and see if your way is better than the way I was taught. If I can utilize both ways and make my own way then, my world is much better and you know what..... that damn cat is still skinned