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[THEOZZ]

Looking and tuning my SERK 3 with the SERT, Rhinehart TD, KN filter. Dose anyon have one that's been Dyno tuned and could you post pics of the MAP AFR tables and the percentage of fuel and KPA's. Would be willing to send some cash your way if you have a file saved from a dyno tune. I'm going to have it tuned as soon as I can get away from work and would like to get it running cooler and better performance until I have a chance at getting it dyno tuned. I was told that the dealer just loads a canned map and makes a few changes then dynos without really giving a full tune and at $100 per hour I want a actual dyno tune. So it Looks like a trip in my near future to someone I can trust in doing a full blown tune.

Desparate in Lost America 
Randy

[Unbalanced]

Here is one from a 07 Ultra 110", Rinehart true duals with 2 1/4 baffles and SE A/C

[THEOZZ]

Thanks Harry wil try it when I find a USB to serial adapter that will work.

[Unbalanced]

Radio Shack or if you can find a Manhatten USB -> Serial conversion those work well also.   I use this one.

[Shovelhead Bob]

Here is one from a 07 Ultra 110", Rinehart true duals with 2 1/4 baffles and SE A/C

I have got to ask, and if I offend you or upset you, I am apologizing....

Who designed this map?

Reason I am asking is this....

#1. The map is designed for a stock head pipe system.... The True Dual map is from the Softail/Dyna Library (Shotgun/Shorty Duals)

#2. You don't "Tune" your bike by manipulating the DESIRED AFR TABLE, especialy as none of the VE's have been checked for accuracy.... The Desired AFR is just that, DESIRED... You have to achieve that target by updating the VE's by adding or deleting units of air, to get the optimum VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY (VE)... The 0% and 100% have been manipulated, and I can presume that this was just to affect Decel pop, as .5 AFR was taken away at 100% and .75 AFR was added at 0%.....

#3. Why is this map running in OPEN LOOP?? Except in 3 cells (20kPa @ 750, 1250 and 1500 rpm)..... Cruising at a "Theoretical" 13:1 is lousy for the wallet, and detrimental to improper sealing of the rings by having fuel wash in the cylinders.....

#4. No changes to the spark tables... Timing is so important to a quality tune, in regards to optimum performance and throttle response...

If you are wondering why I am saying this... I am a SERT Tech, and am a tuner for one of the members here..... My understanding and knowledge of the system is solid and well versed....

If you know someone with a Twinscan II, borrow it, and you will see how much more can be done to your map.... And the performance will be phenomonal....

[SBB]

Good post Bob!

Maybe I should start my post to Harry by apoligizing for questioning his post.
My calling B/S on B/S seems to offend him!
Being direct has always been best for me!
But I do like your approach!

 

[Unbalanced]

Shovelhead Bob,

This was a dyno for a 110" on this site by Bragging Rights.   THEOZZ needed a map to help him out, so I shared one with him.   This map ran with no problems and was safe to give him producing 105 hp and 86 hp.
And he OZZ said

I'm going to have it tuned as soon as I can get away from work and would like to get it running cooler and better performance until I have a chance at getting it dyno tuned.

Each bike is slightly different no matter if the components are exactly the same.   If he was just going to bypass the tune I probably wouldnt have posted this to get him by, but since he said he was going to get it tuned there was no harm in running this it is definately not a lean map.

If you have better that is safe to give him then go ahead and share it with him.   That is exactly what was done here.   The map is running in open loop, because that is how the tuner set it up for him.

Ron, changed from SERT / 255 to TMAX / 575, so there was no chance to do anything with the Twin Scan which I own one of now after he switched.

Actually I don't tune a bike this way I run the twin scan and use volumetric efficiency against target afr.
Although I did have issues with the cloosed loop bias and it's limit to bring down ratios, but that isnt the point here.

on the technical side of your questions:

When on a dyno I do fixed AFR at 13.0 to 1 and tune for flat fuel curve from 0- 40 percent throttle
From there I do sweeps and then once all the volumetrics are set correctly.  Also lets not forget to turn off the knock sensor.  Then go back in and put the VE fixes against the originating map and adjust the timing

Hope you have something to share for free with the guy, like this map that was in a bike and ran fine could it be better maybe, but it was just that something to help him out.

[Shovelhead Bob]

Shovelhead Bob,

This was a dyno for a 110" on this site by Bragging Rights.   THEOZZ needed a map to help him out, so I shared one with him.   This map ran with no problems and was safe to give him producing 105 hp and 86 hp. Sorry, but I am running up the Bravo Sierra Flag on that one....
And he OZZ said
Each bike is slightly different no matter if the components are exactly the same.   If he was just going to bypass the tune I probably wouldnt have posted this to get him by, but since he said he was going to get it tuned there was no harm in running this it is definately not a lean map. ?? How would you know.... The VE's DON'T correspond with Desired AFR... There is NO VALIDATION...

If you have better that is safe to give him then go ahead and share it with him.   That is exactly what was done here.   The map is running in open loop, because that is how the tuner set it up for him. The Tuner that set this map up is an idiot,, and knows NOTHING about the SERT.

Ron, changed from SERT / 255 to TMAX / 575, so there was no chance to do anything with the Twin Scan which I own one of now after he switched.

Actually I don't tune a bike this way I run the twin scan and use volumetric efficiency against target afr.
Although I did have issues with the cloosed loop bias and it's limit to bring down ratios, but that isnt the point here.

on the technical side of your questions:

When on a dyno I do fixed AFR at 13.0 to 1 and tune for flat fuel curve from 0- 40 percent throttle. Step Test at 30-40%, on a Dyno? Again, and sorry, but the Bravo Sierra Flag is in the Breeze on this one.... Step tests need only done from 2-25%, 30-100% is sweep...
From there I do sweeps and then once all the volumetrics are set correctly.  Also lets not forget to turn off the knock sensor.  Then go back in and put the VE fixes against the originating map and adjust the timing So you are telling me that you are leaving the DAFR table alone??? How are you "Targeting" a 13 AFR and "Quantifying" your VE Changes??

Hope you have something to share for free with the guy, like this map that was in a bike and ran fine could it be better maybe, but it was just that something to help him out.

Again, if you are pizzed at me for this, I am apologizing... But wher or who taught you to operate a Dyno and to Tune with a SERT?

[miker]

 

[Unbalanced]

Shovelhead bob,

Why would I be pizzed?  I am not beyond learning something especially if the information given to me was faulty.   Although I don't know you from adam, so I will take in the data given verify it and go on from there.

You not liking the map there is nothing I can do about that, except answer your questions.  I would hope if you have better you would help Ozz out since this is your primary job.   

The person explaining this to me was not the same person that did the map your commenting on.  In referencing dyno tuning methods, you are picking apart that Jim Vangundee said  up to 40% for sweeps and you say up to 30% for sweeps.    I can only go by what I have seen and been shown, so I will note your advice for future reference and try and verify it with Matt Grosch since he seems to be recognized as an expert and a good teacher from the people I have talked with. 

How are you "Targeting" a 13 AFR and "Quantifying" your VE Changes??

You set the AFR to 13 across the board then make your runs and print it out or look at it on the screen or if you have 2 computers it will make it easier to make changes to your VE's.   Then after you make your changes to the VE you make another run and verify with the sniffer if the changes made bring you to your target if not repeat. 

I also double check it with my twinscan II to verify the VE's are correct by using target afr command and the other tools that come within the program from Chris at Twin Tec.

When we did the steps we used the 2nd computer running in data mode to verify throttle position while using the throttle lock purchased through Dynojet to hold the throttle at X percentage.  After the VE's were set we set the closed loop bias tables. 

I am not familiar with the acronym DAFR, but the decell table was zerod out.   If you have other advice or comments that might be helpful please email me at cvoseeg@bellsouth.net.

[hogasm]

Shovelhead Bob, you talk like your a well educated person on tuning bikes, or blowing smoke up our azz, either on doesn't matter.

What would you do different? I learned a long time ago that every day one should learn something new. Teach me something and please don't blow smoke up my ass

[SBB]

Hey miker, I'm with you!
Maybe even a double bag of

 

or a
 

and wash it down with
  or 12


I like good entertainment.

Most of the entertainment I get is viewed from the rearview mirror!

But no way am i going to 

[miker]

I ain't never not liked learnin something.  I feel bad for those who know it all, they must be bored.

Miker

[SBB]

I ain't never not liked learnin something.  I feel bad for those who know it all, they must be bored.

Miker

I agree Mike!
Each day is a brand new day with something new to learn.
And I'm having a blast doing it. (just glad it's not a Buell Blast)
This Shovelhead Bob seems to know his stuff!

 

[hogasm]

I ain't never not liked learnin something.  I feel bad for those who know it all, they must be bored.

Miker

I totally agree with you there. I grew up on a farm, was taught that there is more than one way to skin a cat, but in the end you still have a skinned cat.

If someone teaches me one way to do something and then someone else says that there is another way then, show me. I will give your way a try and see if your way is better than the way I was taught. If I can utilize both ways and make my own way then, my world is much better and you know what..... that damn cat is still skinned

[Hoist!]

Oh crap, I better start payin attention now that I found out my motor's not blown, but I'll need a SERT to get rid of the ACR's in my motor, that shorted out and blew out of the rear head. Another weak HD design, causing another motor failure. My build was sound and the last weak HD part will be removed. Manual ACR's going in and the SERT will allow the engine to run with them disconnected.

Shovelhead Bob, do I have this right? Will I only need to turn the ACR's off thru the SERT to operate this motor with Manual CR's? I just would like to make sure I didn't miss anything in the repair I'm making and getting rid of the ACR's. Thank you for any assistance you can furnish!

Hoist!

[Black Diamond]

Shovelhead Bob

I'm new to this stuff and want to learn so when I'm talking with my tuner I'm not just shaking my head but don't know what the F%#k we're talking about.

What SERT map should I use for my 08 SERK when the SERT's finally get here? I'll be running RH True Duals and HD Heavy Breather A/C. By the way what is your opinion of this A/C? Is there an A/C for the 08's that allows the use of the stock cover?

What is a Twinscam II?

Hoist brings up a good point, do I want to eliminate the ACR's? Is this showing to be a weakness for the 110?

TIA 

JW

[grc]

Shovelhead Bob

I'm new to this stuff and want to learn so when I'm talking with my tuner I'm not just shaking my head but don't know what the F%#k we're talking about.

What SERT map should I use for my 08 SERK when the SERT's finally get here? I'll be running RH True Duals and HD Heavy Breather A/C. By the way what is your opinion of this A/C? Is there an A/C for the 08's that allows the use of the stock cover?

What is a Twinscam II?

Hoist brings up a good point, do I want to eliminate the ACR's? Is this showing to be a weakness for the 110?

TIA 

JW

JW,

No, and Yes.  With the stock cams, your cranking compression is too high without the ACR's and will likely cause starter issues/starting issues.  And it definitely looks like the Harley version of compression releases is just one more "not ready for prime time" part, along with the cranks, cylinders, head gaskets, etc.

Jerry

[Midnight Rider]

Shovelhead Bob

I'm new to this stuff and want to learn so when I'm talking with my tuner I'm not just shaking my head but don't know what the F%#k we're talking about.

What SERT map should I use for my 08 SERK when the SERT's finally get here? I'll be running RH True Duals and HD Heavy Breather A/C. By the way what is your opinion of this A/C? Is there an A/C for the 08's that allows the use of the stock cover?

What is a Twinscam II?

Hoist brings up a good point, do I want to eliminate the ACR's? Is this showing to be a weakness for the 110?

TIA 

JW

JW...you can't just eliminate them without doing something to replace them, which means a lot more work than you may be prepared to do on a brand new motor.

As fas as using your stock cover for the A/C...the SERK should already have the high flow backplate and filter.  The filter is a POS, so just replace it with a K&N 0800 and that should be good to go if you want to keep the cover you have.  I cannot speak about the Heavy Breather...

[Shovelhead Bob]

Shovelhead bob,

Why would I be pizzed?  I am not beyond learning something especially if the information given to me was faulty.   Although I don't know you from adam, so I will take in the data given verify it and go on from there.

You not liking the map there is nothing I can do about that, except answer your questions.  I would hope if you have better you would help Ozz out since this is your primary job.   

The person explaining this to me was not the same person that did the map your commenting on.  In referencing dyno tuning methods, you are picking apart that Jim Vangundee said  up to 40% for sweeps and you say up to 30% for sweeps.    I can only go by what I have seen and been shown, so I will note your advice for future reference and try and verify it with Matt Grosch since he seems to be recognized as an expert and a good teacher from the people I have talked with.  "Mr. Gross" and I have a history..... You tune the way that he tunes..... Fine...

How are you "Targeting" a 13 AFR and "Quantifying" your VE Changes??

You set the AFR to 13 across the board then make your runs and print it out or look at it on the screen or if you have 2 computers it will make it easier to make changes to your VE's.   Then after you make your changes to the VE you make another run and verify with the sniffer if the changes made bring you to your target if not repeat.  You TALK the TALK, but that map that you posted don't walk.....

I also double check it with my twinscan II to verify the VE's are correct by using target afr command and the other tools that come within the program from Chris at Twin Tec.

When we did the steps we used the 2nd computer running in data mode to verify throttle position while using the throttle lock purchased through Dynojet to hold the throttle at X percentage.  After the VE's were set we set the closed loop bias tables.  What you have described DOES NOT jive with what was posted above.... No Way, No How... You have only made a few changes to the VE's, and they were the EXACT same.... That is a THROTTLE WHACKERS map..... And a bad one at that...

I am not familiar with the acronym DAFR, but the decell table was zerod out.   If you have other advice or comments that might be helpful please email me at cvoseeg@bellsouth.net.

Here is a map that I use as a Baseline/Entry level CVO motor, SEAC, Reinhart TD's, and an unnamed cam... The Spark tables and the 15% TP have been cleared so no one can use it as I am posting it... Unless of course you are willing to put the time to Dyno it....

The way that you described "How" to use a SERT and to acquire the correct AFR is correct, but that is NOT the way that a certain company teaches... I was taught by Dynojet and HDU... Stick with what you got going.... Someone else will buy into it....

[Shovelhead Bob]

Oh crap, I better start payin attention now that I found out my motor's not blown, but I'll need a SERT to get rid of the ACR's in my motor, that shorted out and blew out of the rear head. Another weak HD design, causing another motor failure. My build was sound and the last weak HD part will be removed. Manual ACR's going in and the SERT will allow the engine to run with them disconnected.

Shovelhead Bob, do I have this right? Will I only need to turn the ACR's off thru the SERT to operate this motor with Manual CR's? I just would like to make sure I didn't miss anything in the repair I'm making and getting rid of the ACR's. Thank you for any assistance you can furnish!

Hoist!

Yes, the SERT is currently the only EFI management unit that can enable/disable the ACR's..... You are going with manuals??? Good choice.... Learn to use ONLY the rear one, as if you are using BOTH, it takes a bit to crank it to get it to catch.... CKP (Crank Position Sensor) Needs a bit of resistance to generate the signal for the coil, and it really does work, even on an 11:1 motor.... Try it out....

[Hoist!]

Yes, the SERT is currently the only EFI management unit that can enable/disable the ACR's..... You are going with manuals??? Good choice.... Learn to use ONLY the rear one, as if you are using BOTH, it takes a bit to crank it to get it to catch.... CKP (Crank Position Sensor) Neds a bit of resistance to generate the signal for the coil, and it really does work, even on an 11:1 motor.... Try it out....

Thanks so much SB! I'm having them installed in both heads, and thermal coating them and the pistons while I'm at it! I'll try as you suggest, but am having them installed in both heads anyway. Just ordered SERT from Zanottis. Rev H. I think that's the latest, as I believe Rev J isn't out yet. I shouldn't need Rev J for anything on an '07 SERK, should I? Thanks again man!

Hoist!

[Shovelhead Bob]

Shovelhead Bob

I'm new to this stuff and want to learn so when I'm talking with my tuner I'm not just shaking my head but don't know what the F%#k we're talking about.

What SERT map should I use for my 08 SERK when the SERT's finally get here? Dunno, haven't seen the new software yet... Waiting on my new disc as I type....

I'll be running RH True Duals and HD Heavy Breather A/C. By the way what is your opinion of this A/C? Is there an A/C for the 08's that allows the use of the stock cover? Heavy Breather is a nice piece.... Just a velocity stack with a K&N Cone filter... It deletes about 1 AFR, so any map that you do end up using will be skinnier (Leaner) that a conventional map.... Stock cover is only operational with the SEAC Round, K&N 0800 (My choice), AN round...

What is a Twinscam II? Twinscan II is a device for those that do not have accessibility to a load controlled Dyno, the only limitation is that it DOES NOT show Spark Knock under load like the DATA MODE inSERT does while on the Dyno....

Hoist brings up a good point, do I want to eliminate the ACR's? Is this showing to be a weakness for the 110? There are so many mods that can reinforce the motor, but the ACR's are not what I would consider a weak link...

TIA 

JW

[SBB]

Hmmmmm

This is turning into a three bagger!

 

[hogasm]

Here is a map that I use as a Baseline/Entry level CVO motor, SEAC, Reinhart TD's, and an unnamed cam... The Spark tables and the 15% TP have been cleared so no one can use it as I am posting it... Unless of course you are willing to put the time to Dyno it....

The way that you described "How" to use a SERT and to acquire the correct AFR is correct, but that is NOT the way that a certain company teaches... I was taught by Dynojet and HDU... Stick with what you got going.... Someone else will buy into it....

So you still haven't answered the question that was listed at the top of the page. Do you have a map for this mans motor that will work for his motor while he awaits time to get to a dyno man?

[miker]

 

Thanks SB, I am pickin some of it up...Had to but a laptop pc to load the disc on, been perusing about.
Keep this thread going please...

Miker 

[Black Diamond]

Shovelhead

Do you recommend / advise anyone with a 110 motor to replace the ACR's with manuals?

JW

[Hoist!]

Shovelhead

Do you recommend / advise anyone with a 110 motor to replace the ACR's with manuals?

JW

With the damage I saw they can cause, including potentially locking up your motor and sending you flying at 90, I DO!!!

Hoist!

[Shovelhead Bob]

So you still haven't answered the question that was listed at the top of the page. Do you have a map for this mans motor that will work for his motor while he awaits time to get to a dyno man?

CVO 110, Shotgun/Shorty Duals, Race map, CLB maxed out, 6200 RPM.... That is a starter... It'll get it to the Dyno

I don't, nor CAN I, in good conscience give a map out that someone else paid for.... No 2 builds or set-ups are the same......

Most members refer to Dealer Techs as inconsiderate Wrench Turners that have little or no education, and they lack integrity when it comes to the service of their "Prized Possession".... I am not that way....

The maps that I have were paid for by others, by giving me the priviledge to tune their bike, and entrusting me to do the most on my part... I look at it as a PROPRIETARY issue.... Not like some others, who are willing to make a buck off of others work....

[Unbalanced]

Shovelhead bob,

Well I am glad you agree with the way they showed me how to tune the bikes other than the fact that he said 40 percent and you say 30 percent on steps, although I will still check on it.   As far as the map goes I didnt have anything to do with the map other than to get it from a friend for Ozz and post it here.    There is probably a lesson here, but since it was run in my friends bike and a paid for map that he had no complaints on I figured helping a site member was worth asking for the map and my friend didnt mind sharing the map.   While I respect your position of going through the map and hindsight being 20/20 I probably should have taken a look at it, but I had no reason to even think it wasn't a decent map as well as it was supposed to be a short term fix till he had a dyno done and it was an exact match for the hardware.

You're stuck on the idea that I made the map I guess, but you can ask Rhino (Ron) he paid for that map and it was done by Bragging Rights.

There are several people on this site that have ridden my bikes that I have tuned, Hogasm, AJ, GettinOld and they can tell you how well my bikes run and how smooth they are.

Wow a 3 bagger, hope it was educational and entertaining.

 

[SBB]

CVO 110, Shotgun/Shorty Duals, Race map, CLB maxed out, 6200 RPM.... That is a starter... It'll get it to the Dyno

I don't, nor CAN I, in good conscience give a map out that someone else paid for.... No 2 builds or set-ups are the same......

Most members refer to Dealer Techs as inconsiderate Wrench Turners that have little or no education, and they lack integrity when it comes to the service of their "Prized Possession".... I am not that way....

The maps that I have were paid for by others, by giving me the priviledge to tune their bike, and entrusting me to do the most on my part... I look at it as a PROPRIETARY issue.... Not like some others, who are willing to make a buck off of others work....

SB

Thanks for your candor on this issue!
I agree completely with you.
If someone ask for help and you agree to help then there comes certain responsibility in the transference of that information. In more simple terms for me it's like running out of gas and asking for help. What good does it do to get diesel fuel for a gas motor and then stating that "I didn't have anything to do with the fuel, I just delivered it"

That's why when I read the information posted on this site I check it out before I use it!

Your post have been very helpful and I appreciate them and hope for more!

SB

[Hoist!]

SB

Thanks for your candor on this issue!
I agree completely with you.
If someone ask for help and you agree to help then there comes certain responsibility in the transference of that information. In more simple terms for me it's like running out of gas and asking for help. What good does it do to get diesel fuel for a gas motor and then stating that "I didn't have anything to do with the fuel, I just delivered it"

That's why when I read the information posted on this site I thouroughly check it out before I use it!

Your post have been very helpful and I appreciate them and hope for more!

SB

Uh-oh, I think Chip's losing it! He's talking to himself now!

Hoist!

[Shovelhead Bob]

Shovelhead bob,

Well I am glad you agree with the way they showed me how to tune the bikes other than the fact that he said 40 percent and you say 30 percent on steps, although I will still check on it.   As far as the map goes I didnt have anything to do with the map other than to get it from a friend for Ozz and post it here. You posted it... In my eyes, as a PHD Master Tech, that constitutes that it is a map that is GTG... Install, Turn and Burn..... Me, there is no way I could look at the customer, let alone myself in good conscience, to allow that to be installed into a bike..   There is probably a lesson here, but since it was run in my friends bike and a paid for map that he had no complaints on I figured helping a site member was worth asking for the map and my friend didnt mind sharing the map.   The original "Tuner" (Pretty loose term nowadays), needs his azz kicked in hard...While I respect your position of going through the map and hindsight being 20/20 I probably should have taken a look at it, but I had no reason to even think it wasn't a decent map as well as it was supposed to be a short term fix till he had a dyno done and it was an exact match for the hardware.

You're stuck on the idea that I made the map I guess, but you can ask Rhino (Ron) he paid for that map and it was done by Bragging Rights. Show me 1 post that I said that YOU made that map..... In my original query, it was asking questions about WHO made it, and what the rationale of the changes, or really the LACK thereof.... In the immortal words of Cuba Gooding Jr. in Jerry Maguire..... Show Me The Money!!!! Or in this case, show me where I stated that YOU made the map....

There are several people on this site that have ridden my bikes that I have tuned, Hogasm, AJ, GettinOld and they can tell you how well my bikes run and how smooth they are. Are YOU running THIS particular map in your bike, and I mean EXACT?

Wow a 3 bagger, hope it was educational and entertaining. I am not here to amuse people... Just wanted to attempt to educate some people in how to rectify or clarify various issues or concerns of their equipment, and create some awareness ....

 

I was asked to join by a member, and at first I was a bit apprehensive... the CVO "Community" is predominantly, I said PREDOMINANTLY, not all encompassing, a group that holds themselves to a standard that is almost snobbish.... I have noticed more "Virtual Tuners" and "Elitists" who are more concerned with what kind of Bling and Geedunk can I put on my bike to show that "I" have a CVO..... Too few are concerned with durability, longevity and the all important "Fun Factor".....

Maybe I don't get it.... I am a Tech... I ride a built XL 883 cause I sold my bagger to adopt my 3d kid... I am a Retired Marine... I think that everyone is equal, until you pizz me off or act a fool, then you are on the scheitt list....

I am tired...

[Twolanerider]

I was asked to join by a member, and at first I was a bit apprehensive... the CVO "Community" is predominantly, I said PREDOMINANTLY, not all encompassing, a group that holds themselves to a standard that is almost snobbish....

Bob, now that you are here take a little time to get familiar as well as offering the support you have.  You'll find this particular group is one that predominatly plays.  Sure, we polish, we tinker, we even occasionally call each other childish names (AJ, you are still a weiner).  But basically we ride and we play and then we come here and we talk about our riding and our playing.

99% of this crowd knows they don't know it all and are quite happy that way.  Those few that occasionally take longer to clue in to that lesson relatively quickly just get ignored.  They get in the way of the playing and the riding after all!

[110tHunDer]

Bob, now that you are here take a little time to get familiar as well as offering the support you have.  You'll find this particular group is one that predominatly plays.  Sure, we polish, we tinker, we even occasionally call each other childish names (AJ, you are still a weiner).  But basically we ride and we play and then we come here and we talk about our riding and our playing.

99% of this crowd knows they don't know it all and are quite happy that way.  Those few that occasionally take longer to clue in to that lesson relatively quickly just get ignored.  They get in the way of the playing and the riding after all!

Well said, oh Great and Elite King of Bling and Geedunk!

[Twolanerider]

Well said, oh Great and Elite King of Bling and Geedunk!

Damn, that is an auspicious sounding title !  Wonder if a really good map would make it sound even better? 

[SBB]

Damn, that is an auspicious sounding title !  Wonder if a really good map would make it sound even better? 

Don

I believe it would. Just be careful where it comes from.


And Bob, from someone that doesn't even own a CVO I appreciate you knowledge and insight.
The majority of folks on this forum are very passionate no they are damn passionate about their bikes.
From the outside it may appear to be snobbish but as you settle in here you will find it's passion not being snobbish.
IMHO I appreciate your time trying to help us here. I get in trouble here when I object to some of the information that is presented because I know that some is just not right. Just like my gas and diesel analogy earlier post I truly believe that the passing of information has a responsibility that can not be taken lightly. My 120 is at 140/141 and that makes me very happy. But I do not pretend to tell anyone that is how their motor should be built. Anyone that wants to know what's in mine I respond with the information. There are no secrets to doing this. But what works for me may not work for the next guy!

And don't let these guys fool you.
Mr. oh great and Elite King if Bling and Geedunk has one of the most reliable and fun bikes on this site!
SB, glad your here!


S
  /
    B

[Fired00d]

I was asked to join by a member, and at first I was a bit apprehensive... the CVO "Community" is predominantly, I said PREDOMINANTLY, not all encompassing, a group that holds themselves to a standard that is almost snobbish.... I have noticed more "Virtual Tuners" and "Elitists" who are more concerned with what kind of Bling and Geedunk can I put on my bike to show that "I" have a CVO..... Too few are concerned with durability, longevity and the all important "Fun Factor".....

Maybe I don't get it.... I am a Tech... I ride a built XL 883 cause I sold my bagger to adopt my 3d kid... I am a Retired Marine... I think that everyone is equal, until you pizz me off or act a fool, then you are on the scheitt list....

I am tired...

From one Marine to another.... "When the going gets tough the Marines get going." You are more then welcome here and your information is appreciated. Don't be bothered by those that disagree w/what you have to offer (hell they don't always agree w/me) there are many more here that appreciate your information.

Semper Fi!!

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[miker]

Thanks again Bob. 

Miker

[hogasm]

Damn, that is an auspicious sounding title !  Wonder if a really good map would make it sound even better? 

Don I like that title. Knowing you and your bike, it's going to cost you a bundle to have that map built

But    oh Great and Elite King of Bling and Geedunk, according to SB that kitchen table that I bought 2 years ago and still to this day don't like, I can't give it away to charity. That would be unethical to the original table builder to just give it away to some needy family. Now what in the h3!! do I do with this table. I need all the tax deductions I can get now

[SBB]

Brian

That's what happens when you make the big bucks.

Good luck!

 

[Chief]

Don I like that title. Knowing you and your bike, it's going to cost you a bundle to have that map built

But    oh Great and Elite King of Bling and Geedunk, according to SB that kitchen table that I bought 2 years ago and still to this day don't like, I can't give it away to charity. That would be unethical to the original table builder to just give it away to some needy family. Now what in the h3!! do I do with this table. I need all the tax deductions I can get now

Brian,

Let me pick some stocks for you. That'll guarantee you an annual $3,000 of writeoff for years to come. 

[Unbalanced]

I was asked to join by a member, and at first I was a bit apprehensive... the CVO "Community" is predominantly, I said PREDOMINANTLY, not all encompassing, a group that holds themselves to a standard that is almost snobbish.... I have noticed more "Virtual Tuners" and "Elitists" who are more concerned with what kind of Bling and Geedunk can I put on my bike to show that "I" have a CVO..... Too few are concerned with durability, longevity and the all important "Fun Factor".....

Maybe I don't get it.... I am a Tech... I ride a built XL 883 cause I sold my bagger to adopt my 3d kid... I am a Retired Marine... I think that everyone is equal, until you pizz me off or act a fool, then you are on the scheitt list....

I am tired...

You asked me to show you where you said it

When we did the steps we used the 2nd computer running in data mode to verify throttle position while using the throttle lock purchased through Dynojet to hold the throttle at X percentage.  After the VE's were set we set the closed loop bias tables.  What you have described DOES NOT jive with what was posted above.... No Way, No How... You have only made a few changes to the VE's, and they were the EXACT same.... That is a THROTTLE WHACKERS map..... And a bad one at that...

The comments about educational and entertaining shovelhead bob were not directed at you, but "a" pop corn eatter. 

No I have not run this map in my bike, for a few reasons
1.   I never met the criteria for that map I have a 50mm throttlebody and 10.25 pistons
2.   I tried a different cam right away the Yuill Brothers YB14 SEC Gear Drive cam

Not much of a bling person myself, but I enjoy trying with the motor combinations / tuning / trying to achieve the power and still keep the reliability.

Enjoy the site,

[Midnight Rider]

Bob...I appreciate your input and expertise.  It may be a little blunt, but is appreciated nonetheless.

However, I do take exception to your statement about CVO owners being "snobbish".  My experiences here have been just the opposite.  We have members here who do not own a CVO, and they are welcomed as exuberantly as those who do.  Are we PROUD of our bikes....yes!!  Without exception, every person I've met who is a member here would go out of their way to help another member.  People let others borrow their bikes when the opportunity presents itself.  I admire and appreciate ALL two wheeled vehicles, regardless of brand.  I do not judge people for what they ride, but rather on who they are and how they present themselves to me. 

You are obviously a fine man, as evidenced by your statement about selling your bike to adopt a child.  That shows a degree of selflessness that is more than commendable.  I think you will find people here who are equally generous.  Stick around and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Twolanerider]

However, I do take exception to your statement about CVO owners being "snobbish". 

TC, he's talking about your bird .

[Twolanerider]

Don I like that title. Knowing you and your bike, it's going to cost you a bundle to have that map built

But    oh Great and Elite King of Bling and Geedunk, according to SB that kitchen table that I bought 2 years ago and still to this day don't like, I can't give it away to charity. That would be unethical to the original table builder to just give it away to some needy family. Now what in the h3!! do I do with this table. I need all the tax deductions I can get now

Brian, I think we're going to need an acronym.  The title is just too damn long.  OGAEKOBaG.  Hmmmm....  Ah, to hell with it.

Now, as to this table conundrum; screw it man.  When you hire work it is the norm to expect rights and use of the work product.  So sell that ugly table.  Coincidentally that applies to tuners as well.  Most supply the work product as part of the work.  For what it's worth, any that I'd hire would do so. 

[THEOZZ]

Bob:

I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your advice and expertise. My problem is finding someone competent to tune my bike. I have to ride 180 miles just to get to the dealer where I bought the bike. I've been searching for a tuner around my area to tune the bike. I've been told by a friend who used to work for the dealer that all they do is load a canned map and adjust the Afr to 13.5 target and  I take it that they leave the SERT in open loop to achieve this. I'm reading through the manual to learn how the SERT works and by no means have it down pat yet. I've been asking around about dyno tuners in South Dakota, Colorado, Wyoming or Iowa that I could ride to and have a proper tune done. I've heard that Speed Performance would be a great place to have it tuned and trying to make arrangements to ride to Minnesota to have it done. Unless you or someone else could recommend a tuner to take my bike to.

Harry was just helping me out which I also appreciate. 

[Twolanerider]

Bob:

I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your advice and expertise. My problem is finding someone competent to tune my bike.

Ozz, for those of us here in the central Midwest "southeastern PA" is a bit far to have to go for a good tune.  Bob might mention what shop he's in though.  We've got a lot of people back within a days ride of SE PA and it might drum up some work.

Bob, how far are you from Kansas City?  At least down here in Joplin the man spinning the dyno at Gail's HD formerly in Bolton and now in Grandview on the side side of KC has a good reputation for tuning the SERT and the PC.  Just an option to consider.

[hogasm]

Brian,

Let me pick some stocks for you. That'll guarantee you an annual $3,000 of writeoff for years to come. 

Chief I have toooooooo many of them already. 

Need to make some and not give it away for awhile. I really don't mind giving some to the Fed Gov, it just means that you are making money, but I hate to just give it away for someone else being stupid!!!!!!

[Shovelhead Bob]

But    oh Great and Elite King of Bling and Geedunk, according to SB that kitchen table that I bought 2 years ago and still to this day don't like, I can't give it away to charity. That would be unethical to the original table builder to just give it away to some needy family. Now what in the h3!! do I do with this table. I need all the tax deductions I can get now

You really don't get it, do you?? The maps that I have aren't my personal playthings... Other people paid for me to design them for THEIR bikes.... On the Dyno that the shops owner invested in years ago.... The bikes owner and the shop owner own those maps, I was merely the point man on the creation of them... I have no claim to them, or how they are distributed, unless the proper owners allow me to disseminate them...

[Shovelhead Bob]

Ozz, for those of us here in the central Midwest "southeastern PA" SouthWESTERN, Pa... Pittsburgh Region...is a bit far to have to go for a good tune.  Bob might mention what shop he's in though.  Cerini H-D/Buell, 20 miles South of Pittsburgh, Belle Vernon, PAWe've got a lot of people back within a days ride of SE PA and it might drum up some work.

Bob, how far are you from Kansas City?  At least down here in Joplin the man spinning the dyno at Gail's HD formerly in Bolton and now in Grandview on the side side of KC has a good reputation for tuning the SERT and the PC.  Just an option to consider.

[Shovelhead Bob]

Bob:

I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your advice and expertise. My problem is finding someone competent to tune my bike. I have to ride 180 miles just to get to the dealer where I bought the bike. I've been searching for a tuner around my area to tune the bike. I've been told by a friend who used to work for the dealer that all they do is load a canned map and adjust the Afr to 13.5 target and  I take it that they leave the SERT in open loop to achieve this. Yes, that is how the cycle is STARTED, but after the VE's are synchronized to the Target AFR, the Desired AFR (DAFR) is reset back to reference, so that the Closed Loop Bias is operational, and the CLB table is maxed out to 798mVDC switching voltage, to generate a 14.5:1 AFR...I'm reading through the manual to learn how the SERT works and by no means have it down pat yet. I've been asking around about dyno tuners in South Dakota, Colorado, Wyoming or Iowa that I could ride to and have a proper tune done. I've heard that Speed Performance would be a great place to have it tuned and trying to make arrangements to ride to Minnesota to have it done. Unless you or someone else could recommend a tuner to take my bike to. Try LATUS, in Oregon... Mike Stegman is one of the BEST in the business.... Or Hal's Speed Shop in Wisconsin, ... alot closer, and just as good.... Be forewarned, it ain't cheap, but when you have it done by the best, you gotta pay big....

Harry was just helping me out which I also appreciate. 

[hdfatboy]

I was asked to join by a member, and at first I was a bit apprehensive... the CVO "Community" is predominantly, I said PREDOMINANTLY, not all encompassing, a group that holds themselves to a standard that is almost snobbish.... I have noticed more "Virtual Tuners" and "Elitists" who are more concerned with what kind of Bling and Geedunk can I put on my bike to show that "I" have a CVO..... Too few are concerned with durability, longevity and the all important "Fun Factor".....

Maybe I don't get it.... I am a Tech... I ride a built XL 883 cause I sold my bagger to adopt my 3d kid... I am a Retired Marine... I think that everyone is equal, until you pizz me off or act a fool, then you are on the scheitt list....

I am tired...

Bob,

I've said it before Big Guy. . . you are a good man who works hard and very smart! I'm glad that you're here. You may share my map as you see fit. I'm planning to swing by on Saturday to discuss the heads further with you. Runnin' hard for 2,100 miles over Labor Day weekend did both she (the bike) & I a lot of good . . . . And, by the way, my buddies '07 Ultra with my old Rineharts ran strong. We switched for a couple hundred miles on the run back home to Southwestern PA. I was impressed. Good throttle response & pulled hard outta the hole. See you soon my friend.

Mike

[Talon]

Bob...I appreciate your input and expertise.  It may be a little blunt, but is appreciated nonetheless.

However, I do take exception to your statement about CVO owners being "snobbish".  My experiences here have been just the opposite.  We have members here who do not own a CVO, and they are welcomed as exuberantly as those who do.  Are we PROUD of our bikes....yes!!  Without exception, every person I've met who is a member here would go out of their way to help another member.  People let others borrow their bikes when the opportunity presents itself.  I admire and appreciate ALL two wheeled vehicles, regardless of brand.  I do not judge people for what they ride, but rather on who they are and how they present themselves to me. 

You are obviously a fine man, as evidenced by your statement about selling your bike to adopt a child.  That shows a degree of selflessness that is more than commendable.  I think you will find people here who are equally generous.  Stick around and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Yea, what TCnBham said!! I only have a lowly RK, came to this site because there were a lot of people here with good info, and were more that willing to help. If you get into the site and really look, these people really care for eachother, and will go the extra mile to help other members out. But if someone comes to the site spreading BS, they'll call them out. This is one of the only sites I view that has such a low BS factor, except when they want to yank eachothers chain, then it flies!!

[SBB]

Bob,

I've said it before Big Guy. . . you are a good man who works hard and very smart! I'm glad that you're here. You may share my map as you see fit. I'm planning to swing by on Saturday to discuss the heads further with you. Runnin' hard for 2,100 miles over Labor Day weekend did both she (the bike) & I a lot of good . . . . And, by the way, my buddies '07 Ultra with my old Rineharts ran strong. We switched for a couple hundred miles on the run back home to Southwestern PA. I was impressed. Good throttle response & pulled hard outta the hole. See you soon my friend.

Mike

HDFATBOY

Thanks for pointing Bob in this direction!
Look forward to his post!

Kinda like the shirt Howie had on Saturday that said,

"It ain't bragging if you can back it up"

I believe Bob can!

 

[NWbiker]

This is a little late but here is a sit with a lot of good Dyno charts for comparison.

http://www.latus-harley-davidson.com/dyno_charts.asp