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[JETCVO]

SAY WHAT?
Where's the facts on that one?
Is there any facts on that one?

 

FYI

[hard10]

FYI

This is an artice about Harley's 48% market share:

"We discussed here how Harley-Davidson (NYSE: HOG) has appeared to have overcome its issue of bloated dealer inventories, but what about their apparent drop in US market share? Here's a look at Harley's market share (based on bike's sold) for the last several years, along with the first six months of this year:
It makes sense that the whole industry should shrink, considering the economy, but is there something else going on here? Why is Harley disproportionately affected?

The answer lies in the company's conference call. Every quarter, each company on the NYSE holds a conference call where the public can ask management specific questions. Often, these calls can be long and drawn out, including items such as disclaimers on forward-looking statements, to management rehashing headline numbers that are already provided on the press release. Therefore, my preferred method of getting the info without wasting time is to grab the conference call transcript at Seeking Alpha. For example, a transcript of Harley Davidson's latest conference call can be found there.

On the conference call we get some color on the market share situation. While we know from before that management has decided to cut production in order to maintain certain price levels for bikes, the competition has been aggressively trying to move product. They have cut prices and offered financing in order to clear their inventory. Rather than follow suit, management at Harley believes they are taking the better long term approach for their premium product, as evidenced by this quote during the call from CEO Jim Ziemer:

"Managing the business for the long term is part and parcel of maintaining a premium brand experience. We have strong fundamentals and are fortunate to be dealing with the current climate from a sound financial position. [The] economic downturn in the US will end and when it does Harley-Davidson intends to be well positioned to capture future growth opportunities."

Whether this was the right decision is open to debate, but clearly HOG is focused on maintaining its image as a premium product, and is willing to forego a few extra bucks to do so."

[Gone Fishin']

Folks have commented for years on this site how they think CVO owner's should get better and more exclusive treatment by the MoCo and the dealers.  Other manufacturers of products or purveyors of services have such things as dedicated hot lines and special clubs for their top tier customers, but there is one huge difference between those companies and the MoCo, at least in my experience.  Those other companies actually care about customer satisfaction and highly value those high dollar customers.  Harley just looks at us as a bunch of suckers who would probably buy a broken down mule for $30k if it had Harley-Davidson branded on it (and some chrome bits and pieces of course). 

If you want to avoid the headaches and heartaches, just send your $30k directly to Willy G. and tell him to keep the damned bike.  Maybe he'll send you a nice chromed coffee mug with a CVO logo or something.

Jerry

Jerry, where is the love in this post?

[MUFFMAN]

The SOB's have a chromed CVO coffee mug?

Ron

Yeah, it leaks. THE MUFFMAN

[Gone Fishin']

FYI

In reference to the chart, all it says that, relative to Polaris, the Harley stock price has underperformed. With the credit crisis and the high cost of gas, people tend to close their wallets when it comes to purchase anything "just for fun". It is natural that a stock like HOG would take a beating by the market, since it is way more prominent than, e.g. PII, which is relatively obscure. HOG market cap at close to 10b$ is almost six times that of all of PII at around 1.5b$. I am confident that with the greying population and the number of people inheriting money growing, the fundamentals for Harley are very good. Having said this, the fact is that a company making a lot of money is to a certain degree overcharging their customers, and Harley is a case in point, because they can and most often get away with it. (I do not own any HOG or PII shares, by the way).

Louis

[RedDevil]

That was a definitely red herring thrown in raise eyebrows.  With Victory falling into the "other 8%" of the motorcycle market, to be shared with the likes of BMW, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, et al, that probably puts Victory at less than 5% of the market.  Their motorcles are good bikes and they are getting more exposure, but their dealer base isn't nearly big enough to over-take Harley in sales. 

That being said, I agree with Don, I don't think we should have a separate CVO Customer Service Hotline.  All I ask is that the MoCo treat all of us that have laid out our hard-earned dollars to buy their product, the same "premium" quality of service and respect that they claim their marquee has.  If you believe you're selling a premium product, then you should treat those that are buying your premium product in the same premium manner. IMO.

 

[SBB]

FYI

Ron

Until you edited your post it said,

Victory has already surpassed HD in total sales and their bikes are getting better.

As has been discussed that was an incorrect statement.
If you want to edit your post to appear that your discussing stocks then that's another story.
But Victory has not surpassed HD in total sales!

                              

[miker]

Its the Tee shirts man.....How many Victory Tee shirts do you see?
At least most of them are pretty well made from what I see...

[naitram]

hmmmmmmm



with no external factors considered the lines are almost parallel until the final data point. all you have proved is that both companies are feeling the current economy ( assuming thats this years numbers ) harley stayed even and polaris grew slightly. polaris also sells ATVs and snowmobiles. if you are going to hype them up you should mention that around this time of year they will start seeing an increase of sales and service on those

[110tHunDer]

FYI

WTF does that prove?   That is Polaris of which Victory is only about 6% of the total revenue of the corporation.  I think you're riding the wrong brand of bike.

[110tHunDer]

That was a definitely red herring thrown in raise eyebrows.  With Victory falling into the "other 8%" of the motorcycle market, to be shared with the likes of BMW, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, et al, that probably puts Victory at less than 5% of the market.  Their motorcles are good bikes and they are getting more exposure, but their dealer base isn't nearly big enough to over-take Harley in sales. 

That being said, I agree with Don, I don't think we should have a separate CVO Customer Service Hotline.  All I ask is that the MoCo treat all of us that have laid out our hard-earned dollars to buy their product, the same "premium" quality of service and respect that they claim their marquee has.  If you believe you're selling a premium product, then you should treat those that are buying your premium product in the same premium manner. IMO.

 

Best I can tell from the data in their annual report (which is where you actually go to find data on their unit sales, not the NYSE), they made up only about 2% of the market last year.  One interesting thing vis-a-vis Harley, however, is that Victory's sales remained flat in '07 while Harley's declined a bit.  This could mean they are getting into some of Harley's (or the other manufacturer's) market share, but they still got a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go before they overtake H-D.

[JETCVO]

Ron

Until you edited your post it said,

As has been discussed that was an incorrect statement.
If you want to edit your post to appear that your discussing stocks then that's another story.
But Victory has not surpassed HD in total sales!

                              

Love the way we get our panties in a bunch when downplaying HD status.
That’s exactly why the MOCO can whip, beat and make us write bad checks to buy their $hit.
"Victory is celebrating their 10 year Anniversary."

Ron

[naitram]

bigdog has been around for over 10 yrs now, will either be around in another 10?

[iski]

bigdog has been around for over 10 yrs now, will either be around in another 10?

That is the pertinent question.

Indian goes in/out of biz every few years now.  Have seen Victory bikes & it's easy to pass on them.  Others like 'em - probably a Victory forum for waterscoot bikes somewhere.

Also, HD does not differentiate when it comes to CVO vs regular HD models as to service, etc.  Otherwise the warranty structure & service structures would already be different.  I knew that well before I bought my bike.

[J-Carr]

Two comments:

One.  I have to say the Victory is a nice motorcycle.  Unlike some of the other "production" companies like Big Dog, the victory bikes have a broader market appeal and can appeal to more then just a fat tire type or touring type, etc.  Although I find the Vision to be a space ship looking thing, I could see a Gold Wing guy going for one if he got POd about them moving production BACK to Japan.  This not to say I agree with the statement about Victory outselling or outperforming HD in any way. I think that was intended to rile up the crowd and is wildly innacurate.

Two.  I am surprised at the animosity I see towards HD from some on this site.  I understand everyone has a right to their opinion and I do not object to them speaking it.  Nor do I post in opposition since when it's a matter of opinion there is no right or wrong.  I am merely surprised that all those who hate these bikes and this company so vehemently don't move on to another brand or at least buy an older stock HD and spend the difference in money to do it the way you want it.  Please do not take this as a blanket ataboy to the MoCo.  I certainly see the problems and have experienced some of them myself.  I think it's atrocious that the ACR and leaky head gaskets on the 110s took so long for the MoCo to acknowledge.  I have posted some comments that are negative towards the MoCo and would like to see many changes made. I can understand why you'd be so angry and please do not take this as criticism of your anger.  But for god's sake, some of these posts are just like name calling.  Let's see how mean and vindictive you can be, and since the MoCo has upset you to that degree, why put yourself through it?  I know that in the past I've had Jobs, Bands, Girfriends, Bands, Cars, Bands, and even some friends (mostly from bands I've played in) that have gotten me that upset.  I've elliminated them from my life.

Ride Safe (And happy)
J-Carr