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[mrwclark]

The more people i speak with, the more confused i become. I came from a 2004 fatboy with an 88 motor. So Power is really not a big concern of mine. i DO NOT like the sound of the stock pipes. i spoke with Bumpus HArley and they gave me a quote of $1,700 for V&H Power duals, Slip-Ons, SERT, 5 hours labor with Dyno and promised this bike would run and sound Outrageous. i have a few questions...
1. Can i just do slip ons and achieve great sound?
2. Must the CAt be removed to achieve the sound?
3. if i do just slip ons, will i need SERT?
4. will the SERT cool the bike down?
5. Anyone using Fullsac with or without Cat?
6. Can the stock baffles be removed or modified?
7. if so, will i need the SERT?

As you can tell, i'm not a techie when it comes to bikes. i just like them to LOOK & SOUND good. :-)

[DABB]

I will be awaiting these answers almost as anxoiusly as I await my 2010 SESG!  I want it as loud as possible!!!

[JCZ]

I will be awaiting these answers almost as anxoiusly as I await my 2010 SESG!  I want it as loud as possible!!!

You want Thunderheader.  And now they make it with a false left side so that you can keep the dual look.

[JCZ]

The more people i speak with, the more confused i become. I came from a 2004 fatboy with an 88 motor. So Power is really not a big concern of mine. i DO NOT like the sound of the stock pipes. i spoke with Bumpus HArley and they gave me a quote of $1,700 for V&H Power duals, Slip-Ons, SERT, 5 hours labor with Dyno and promised this bike would run and sound Outrageous. i have a few questions...
1. Can i just do slip ons and achieve great sound?  I don't know about "great" but a good sound.
2. Must the CAt be removed to achieve the sound?  No
3. if i do just slip ons, will i need SERT?  There are several tuners that you can use, the SERT is just one of them.  You don't need a tuner if you don't change the air cleaner and will not do any other performance mods of any kind (not even an air cleaner)
4. will the SERT cool the bike down?  Tuners will provide more fuel, thereby elliminating the lean factor of a stock bike......yes.
5. Anyone using Fullsac with or without Cat?   a number of the 09 and 10 owners are.
6. Can the stock baffles be removed or modified?  yes.....Steve at fullsac will do that for you if you can't find anybody local to do it.
7. if so, will i need the SERT?   Answered above......anytime you do a performance mods you'll need some way to tune it to those particular mods

As you can tell, i'm not a techie when it comes to bikes. i just like them to LOOK & SOUND good. :-)

[mjb765]

I put Cobra 4" slip ons and had to take the fiberglass packing from around the baffles out to get osme more sound out of them. They are pretty free flowing, so I think the cat must be restricting the sound as well. I guess I will find out when V&H comes out with the Power Dual for the 2010.

[mjb765]

You want Thunderheader.  And now they make it with a false left side so that you can keep the dual look.

From the website, it looks like Thunderheader make true duals.

[JCZ]

I put Cobra 4" slip ons and had to take the fiberglass packing from around the baffles out to get osme more sound out of them. They are pretty free flowing, so I think the cat must be restricting the sound as well. I guess I will find out when V&H comes out with the Power Dual for the 2010.

To some degree, yes.  If you're after loud just for the sake of loud.....run staright pipes.  You don't have to remove the cat to make the bike louder than a stock bike.  So it all comes down to preference. 

I ran Thunderheader for years.  Not for noise but for the performance......the sound was a cool side benefit.  Now that I'm older and have a hard time hering some tones, I think it's due to all those years of Thunderheader.   Now, I want quiet as possible but still want the performance.

The V&H power duals are supposed to be out in a couple of weeks.

[mjb765]

Ran straight pipes for years. Sorta miss them in a way, but times change. Still want some good sound, but you do lose some bottom end with the straight pipes, so I am compromising---a little less noise for some additonal power. The Cobra's by themselves sound OK, but not there yet--I think removing the cat will make up the difference. We will see in a few weeks--and of course when I get my bike back!!

[11]

Be carefull about the info you get on this site. It is good sometimes and not so good others. Call Steve @ Fullsac, Call Short Block Charlie, Wes @ Cyclerama etc. Get opinions from folks that do the work and then sift thru that, Fullsac has actually worked on the bikes, SBC is very smart on HD's etc. Lots of the guys on here couldn't change a baffle, much less even understand how a TTS or SERT even work but will make recommendations of what to do. But some of the others are very knowledgeable. Good Luck!

[mjb765]

Be carefull about the info you get on this site. It is good sometimes and not so good others. Call Steve @ Fullsac, Call Short Block Charlie, Wes @ Cyclerama etc. Get opinions from folks that do the work and then sift thru that, Fullsac has actually worked on the bikes, SBC is very smart on HD's etc. Lots of the guys on here couldn't change a baffle, much less even understand how a TTS or SERT even work but will make recommendations of what to do. But some of the others are very knowledgeable. Good Luck!

I couldn't tell who you mean..but generally the folks on this site that don't know don't post or will say that it is just their opinion.......There are plenty of people that do their own work and post about the experiences they have had. When it comes to the sound of a bike--how loud or quiet it is--unfortunately it is ALWAYS an opinion since everybody is different.

Calling Steve at Fullsac is always a good idea, but again his baffles are not loud enough for some people and too loud for others. The bike will absolutely run right with his setup and there are many people on this forum that know this first hand.

[MOBlue]

 

[JCZ]

I couldn't tell who you mean..but generally the folks on this site that don't know don't post or will say that it is just their opinion.......There are plenty of people that do their own work and post about the experiences they have had. When it comes to the sound of a bike--how loud or quiet it is--unfortunately it is ALWAYS an opinion since everybody is different.

Calling Steve at Fullsac is always a good idea, but again his baffles are not loud enough for some people and too loud for others. The bike will absolutely run right with his setup and there are many people on this forum that know this first hand.

Valid points through and through.

[mrwclark]

Wow! i heard a 09 SERG with the V&H power duals and and slip ons...very awesome deep rumble that i'm looking for. I definitely do not want the straight pipes. i guess to do it right, i'll wait on the Power Duals and go ahead with the entire setup including SERT & dyno time. i think i will be glad i did in the long run! THANKS very much for all your advice and opinions!

[mjb765]

Wow! i heard a 09 SERG with the V&H power duals and and slip ons...very awesome deep rumble that i'm looking for. I definitely do not want the straight pipes. i guess to do it right, i'll wait on the Power Duals and go ahead with the entire setup including SERT & dyno time. i think i will be glad i did in the long run! THANKS very much for all your advice and opinions!

 

[grinner]

I just did the SE Fatshotz slip-ons on my '10 SESG and they sound great! Good low rumble at idle, great volume when throttling up, and good low growl at cruising speed.  They don't compete with my radio, and I can still communicate with other riders if needed without screaming.  I played loud music all my life and lost some hearing due to both low and high frequencies.  At 51 and climbing I need all I can get when it comes to hearing...........

They look pretty awesome too!  I have installation pics posted here:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=41742.30

[Sapper6]

They look pretty awesome too!  I have installation pics posted here:

Where?

[grinner]

Here:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=41742.30

Sorry, another senior moment......

[MKW]

Wow! i heard a 09 SERG with the V&H power duals and and slip ons...very awesome deep rumble that i'm looking for. I definitely do not want the straight pipes. i guess to do it right, i'll wait on the Power Duals and go ahead with the entire setup including SERT & dyno time. i think i will be glad i did in the long run! THANKS very much for all your advice and opinions!

mrwclark, nice photo!  Hey, if you're like some of us on this site the exhaust as well as other mods will not be your last.  The journey is 90% of the fun    I might have mentioned that I plan on running V&H Dresser Duals with High Output Slip Ons and SE Pro Tuner.  If you can hold off until after Thanksgiving I'll post my particulars as well as a YOUTUBE video/audio to compair.  Enjoy!

[fxstbharley2008]

I want to see what Rinehart true duals are going to look like.
Looks like they should be out some time next month.
I think V & H already have something out for us...
Has any one gone with V & H true duals?

[hdnik]

I want to see what Rinehart true duals are going to look like.
Looks like they should be out some time next month.
I think V & H already have something out for us...
Has any one gone with V & H true duals?

I heard an '09 SERG with BH True Dresser Duals and Klock Werks Revolver Slip-Ons. Sound mellow at idle but a nice bark when he twisted grip. They also look good because they are 4" and the end cap is at the same angle as the bags. That's how I'm going... that and the TTS master Tuner (SERT)

I also saw a 2010 with Rinehart Slip Ons. The owner was dissapoint because they don't fill the hole enough. (smaller Diameter)

[Sapper6]

Here:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=41742.30

Sorry, another senior moment......

WOOOWW!








Nice Floor!







Oh yeah.....    the pipes look great too!!!

[fxstbharley2008]

Whatever Mufflers you get just got to fill that hole to look good!

I also saw a 2010 with Rinehart Slip Ons. The owner was dissapoint because they don't fill the hole enough. (smaller Diameter)
[/quote]

[Snowrdr]

SO Bub has released the new 2010 head pipe and Vance and Hines has hit the market as well and I am itching to get a new head pipe without a CAT. Dealer having me hold off on head pipe and muffler combo until Spring. Was looking really heavy at Klock Werks Slip ons after hearing them at Vegas Bike Fest but Dealer trying to turn me away. Thunderheader well would do if pipe would not discolor. For bub info check out the website www.bub.com. Any other insight would be helpful.

[JCZ]

The new 2010 Bub 7 Stealth TDX Trueduals have a 4" muffler body.

[Wheelsnkeels]

ordered my new exhaust today none of the options I've seen fill the gap in the bags the way I would like.

So I ordered Vance and Hines Power Duals Head pipes and went with Boom Cans slip ons. These should fill the gap nicely.

Here is a picture on another bagger I'll post pics of mine when completed. I rode this other bagger and they sound sweet on throttle but go quiet during cruise.

[Wheelsnkeels]

Try Mark at
M&M Cycles
4416 Tiffin Ave
Sandusky Oh 44870
419-624-8739
WWW.MANDMCYCLES.COM

He'll treat you right!

[Sapper6]

Wheels,

Welcome to the site and congratulations on your new scoot!  If you ever make it down near Indy next riding season you should look me up.  Great looking ride.

[CVOTequila]

Does anyone have thoughts on D & D exhaust, are they making anything for us right now?  (for the '10 FLHXSE)

[Wheelsnkeels]

Wheels,

Welcome to the site and congratulations on your new scoot!  If you ever make it down near Indy next riding season you should look me up.  Great looking ride.

Will do have a daughter living near Keystone Crossing, "Thanks for Serving"

[Wheelsnkeels]

The new 2010 Bub 7 Stealth TDX Trueduals have a 4" muffler body.

Just dont think 4" will get the job done!!!
Same size as the factory and look at those gaps?

Check out pics at www.milwaukeebagger.com


Description    
Boom Cans Replacement mufflers:Slips on to factory header pipes or True Duals with removable baffles.
Length: Top 27 1/2" Bottom 30 3/4"
Dia: 5 1/4"W X 6 3/4"H
For baggers that like the Big look.(Note: will not fit Rinehart header pipes)  
  
  

[CVOTequila]

My dealer says that V & H isn't shipping the 2010 exhaust yet........true?

[Snowrdr]

From what I was told 2 days ago is that they were available to order and Drag Specialties does have them in stock. I am waiting for someone to try the BUB setup myself.

[CVOTequila]

alrighty that sounds good, I just saw a bike with that V & H power chamber....it looks good, I think I may do the Power Chamber and just the basic slip ons

[delnel]

Hope Im doing the right thing I am in the middle of going the Fullsac Stage 1 Tell me I am!

[2010spicedrum]

I did the fulsac stage 1 no cat 2" baffle TTS tuner. Sounds great under throtle and you can  still hear the stereo while cruising.

[delnel]

That is exactly what I am in the process of doing.

[Wheelsnkeels]

This seems to be the most cost effective route. I almost went that route but wanted to keep the factory pipes. Just in case of a warranty issue. 

[MKW]

My dealer tells me that the V&H Power Chambers are now off backorder and they already have the High Output Slip Ons    Makes my move to put in a Hawg-Wired amp and DX 504-70 speakers a wise choice so as to hear the tunes 

[Wheelsnkeels]

Been a week on my exhaust order I feel like I'm watching paint dry!!

[CVOTequila]

My dealer is still telling me that they will not have the V & H exhaust in until the end of NOV!!?

[Wheelsnkeels]

I'm waiting on just the headers? I haven't heard of a delay
yet but it normally takes up to two weeks when I ordered from them in the past.

it's been one week and Im already looking out the window every
hour for the UPS truck

[Sapper6]

it's been one week and Im already looking out the window every
hour for the UPS truck

That's what nosy wives or nervous dogs and ......   Oh yea tracking numbers are for!

[CVOTequila]

I'm waiting on just the headers? I haven't heard of a delay
yet but it normally takes up to two weeks when I ordered from them in the past.

it's been one week and Im already looking out the window every
hour for the UPS truck

Who did you order through? V & H, or your dealer?

[Rooster]

I saw and heard Freedom Performance pipes at Street Vibes and they were LOUD.

[DICKW]

I'm waiting on just the headers? I haven't heard of a delay
yet but it normally takes up to two weeks when I ordered from them in the past.

it's been one week and Im already looking out the window every
hour for the UPS truck

How is that Paint coming..........Dry yet???

[CVOTequila]

I saw and heard Freedom Performance pipes at Street Vibes and they were LOUD.

I just looked at thier site, apparently they have the 2010 exhaust with a 4in diameter.  Does anyone have more info on these pipes?

[CVOTequila]

I just called them @ freedom performance, and they ARE delivering pipes for the 2010 FLHXSE.........I am awaiting a part number for the slash down tips.

[Wheelsnkeels]

Who did you order through? V & H, or your dealer?

my dealer and he said up to 14 days it's now day 10. The paint isn't dry yet!!!

[CVOwner]

5. Anyone using Fullsac with or without Cat?

Does that mean CAT??? As in CAt converter??? Please tell me no!!

[CVOTequila]

My dealer has ordered me the exhaust from Freedom performance.......sounds like a good product, I understand this exhaust is designed specifically for the 110 motor

[Wheelsnkeels]

Does that mean CAT??? As in CAt converter??? Please tell me no!!

Sorry thats exactly what you think it means

Waiting patiently for my new Head pipes from V&H

[Wheelsnkeels]

took a closer look at the back of the bike today. It appears that all the bikes have left side pipes mounted off center to the left.

I am crossing my fingers that V&H actually built the pipe to alleviate this (IMO)
defect.

Otherwise I see some fabrication in my future. Too Anal to have one pipe out of alignment!

[RedDevil]

took a closer look at the back of the bike today. It appears that all the bikes have left side pipes mounted off center to the left.

I am crossing my fingers that V&H actually built the pipe to alleviate this (IMO)
defect.

Otherwise I see some fabrication in my future. Too Anal to have one pipe out of alignment!

IMO, I doubt seriously that V&H will change the mounting point on all their mufflers to fit one (or two) specific models of bike, (in this case the SERG and SESG).  I think you're probably looking at fabrication in your future if it really bothers you that much.  To me it falls in the same category of the supposed 1/8" off-center CVO tank emblem category.  Just not worth it, because, at least on my bike, it's not that serious...but then again, that's just me.

[CVOTequila]

HA there is someone who is anal about little things like me!

[Wheelsnkeels]

IMO, I doubt seriously that V&H will change the mounting point on all their mufflers to fit one (or two) specific models of bike, (in this case the SERG and SESG).  I think you're probably looking at fabrication in your future if it really bothers you that much.  To me it falls in the same category of the supposed 1/8" off-center CVO tank emblem category.  Just not worth it, because, at least on my bike, it's not that serious...but then again, that's just me.

Sorry I guess I was somewhat vague The issue isn't the pipe mounting point it is the shape of the crossover pipe. The MOCO on their infinite striving for top quality has made their crossover too wide for the application. Since aftermarket guys make their living improving the product. I blindly hope they will actually fit the product and see that it is correct before they mass produce an item fitting all touring model 2009 and up?

[Wheelsnkeels]

Yes I did measure the tank decal too!
Mine is centered, thank you very much....

[CVOTequila]

haha yeah my label is definetely off......I just feel like the cost of these machines should warrant some serious attention to detail

[Wheelsnkeels]

You would think you could expect that?

IMO they took many short cuts with the SESG

Braided lines on the lower lines but not on the uppers at the controls??? WTF

Brake rotors arent even polished much les chrome???

I dont care for the contrast wheels or painted Cowbells but I understand the "look" they went for.

They executed much better in the 2009 SERG but fell short of the mark in the SESG.

If the Ultra Tour Pak was a Detachable I would have bought that! Much better executuion for the money. I didnt want to hassle with the wiring issues to make it detachable.

Plus you get the heated seats and heated grips along with internal Navigation system all missing in the SESG

[CVOTequila]

AGREED! In addition to all of this why the heck doesn't it come with some sort of performance exhaust?......not even the poopy screamin' eagle exhaust
I undestand issues as far as state legalities, but SE does have 50 state exhaust, but it isn't even on the SE 110 engine!!

[Wheelsnkeels]

Sometimes you just gotta say WTF

[CVOTequila]

absolutely, these are the kinda things that as a dedicated HD owner I am entitled to!

[CVOwner]

My dealer has ordered me the exhaust from Freedom performance.......sounds like a good product, I understand this exhaust is designed specifically for the 110 motor

I have a set of freedoms on my 103, They are great to deal with, the pipes are top notch, my bike runs and sounds like you cannot believe.!!!
CATALYTIC CONVERTERS?!?!?!?!?!? Next thing you know they wont let you put aftermarket pipes on. Good luck with that!!

[RedDevil]

AGREED! In addition to all of this why the heck doesn't it come with some sort of performance exhaust?......not even the poopy screamin' eagle exhaust
I undestand issues as far as state legalities, but SE does have 50 state exhaust, but it isn't even on the SE 110 engine!!

It's all about the EPA.  Emissions and noise.  The manufacturers have to meet certain requirements and in order for Harley to maintain their V-Twin, air-cooled design, they have to do such things as CATs, quieter (more restrictive) mufflers, and set the air/fuel ratio so lean that the bike will meet those emission/noise standards.  The good news is, Harley meets the current standards up until at least 2113, the bad news is what we all have to do to get them to run and sound right after we get them.  The company cannot build the bikes unless the model line meets or exceeds EPA requirements, and the dealers can't legally modify any emission system on any pre-sold (new inventory) motorcycle without fear of a heavy fine.  A lot of dealers used to do pipe mods and put them  on the showroom floor (mine included), but have determined it's just not worth the risk anymore. 

[DICKW]

A lot of dealers used to do pipe mods and put them  on the showroom floor (mine included), but have determined it's just not worth the risk anymore. 

My dealer has gone this route as well, not worth it for them.

[CVOTequila]

Yeah this EPA stuff is just ridiculous, I have a Cummins TD truck with this new emissions system in it, and it gets 17 MPG.  Without that restrictive exhaust it would more than likely get about 24 MPG.  Ultimately what the government has done has been a huge help to Oil companies becuase we now spend 3X what we used to for Gas, Diesel, Oil etc. 

[Wheelsnkeels]

Well here are the Boom Cans installed today

[Wheelsnkeels]

Love the tone nice growl when on the throttle settles to a low rumble at cruise.

Vance and Hines Power Duals to be installed next

[Sapper6]

It's all about the EPA.  Emissions and noise.  The manufacturers have to meet certain requirements and in order for Harley to maintain their V-Twin, air-cooled design, they have to do such things as CATs, quieter (more restrictive) mufflers, and set the air/fuel ratio so lean that the bike will meet those emission/noise standards.  The good news is, Harley meets the current standards up until at least 2113, the bad news is what we all have to do to get them to run and sound right after we get them.  The company cannot build the bikes unless the model line meets or exceeds EPA requirements, and the dealers can't legally modify any emission system on any pre-sold (new inventory) motorcycle without fear of a heavy fine.  A lot of dealers used to do pipe mods and put them  on the showroom floor (mine included), but have determined it's just not worth the risk anymore. 

Well at least we won't have to worry about many changes for the next 103 years

[RedDevil]

Well at least we won't have to worry about many changes for the next 103 years

   2013 

[Wheelsnkeels]

Power Duals installed gives them a Deeper throaty sound

[Hugh Janis]

My subwoofer was rattling my desk! 

Those pipes should cure the top end rattle and 5th gear whine too!

[CVOTequila]

those power duals look great, adds a nice touch of chrome

[DICKW]

Power Duals installed gives them a Deeper throaty sound

I would be interested in the #'s you produce after a tune.

[Wheelsnkeels]

I would be interested in the #'s you produce after a tune.

No plans to Dyno sorry

[TEQUILA -aka- RED RUM]

No plans to Dyno sorry

   did you do a tune.............

[Wheelsnkeels]

  did you do a tune.............

Havent done anythig to require one yet I will add Steve Mullins XIEDs when they are released in December to correct the lean A/F ratio.

http://www.nightrider.com/parts/hd2007hd_heat_01.htm
2007 and Newer Harley bikes:
There is more independent proof that you do not need to remap the HD EFI when installing mufflers. The March 2009 (page 66) Cycle World dyno tested a set of slip-on mufflers on an '09 FLH, getting 5% more HP and 9% more torque on a "bone-stock, including EFI mapping" bike. Cycle World is not known as a big Harley cheerleader, so it would be a reasonable assumption that they are not going to do any special favors for MOCO.
The CW information is right in line with what HD published in the Fall 2006 Enthusiast Magazine showing a 3% HP and 7% torque increase with slightly more restrictive mufflers and air cleaner kit. American Iron Magazine has also published similar articles about "no remap" upgrades involving exhaust/air cleaner changes.

How much information has to be presented to Harley Riders that remapping of the ECM is not required for exhaust/air cleaner upgrades for closed loop bikes? When it can be shown that much of the "gain" in power for bikes remapped with expensive tuning software and piggyback controllers would have occurred without spending $400-$1000, riders need to start thinking about what they are really trying to accomplish on their bikes rather than blindly following the "you must remap just to add exhaust/ac" advice that has been discredited.

[Kevinski]

Wide open throttle is not closed loop, it's from the map.

Still not sure to do with mine when I get it. Think i will start with slip-ons and see how it runs. I have a VIN  number as of yesterday and the bike is in Europe so should be with me in the UK next week.

Kev

[JCZ]

I believe that remapping is more to get them to run cooler.  Of course the power gains are an added benefit.   JMHO.

I think I'm going to go with the 1.75 Fullsac baffles, have the cat removed and a TTS tuner.  Keep the original look on the exhaust (just not sure what the smog police are gong to do in the next year or two but if anything, I think it'll just be a visual inspection.....like the bill that just got defeated here in Cali).  The SESG air cleaner is already an open air cleaner so I'll just keep rollin with that.

My goal is to just get it to run cooler, while making it sound a little more like a Harley but keeping it quiet as possible and get what ever performance increase I can get, going that route.  Oh yea, probably change cams, too.

[JCZ]

It's all about the EPA.  Emissions and noise.  The manufacturers have to meet certain requirements and in order for Harley to maintain their V-Twin, air-cooled design, they have to do such things as CATs, quieter (more restrictive) mufflers, and set the air/fuel ratio so lean that the bike will meet those emission/noise standards.  The good news is, Harley meets the current standards up until at least 2113, the bad news is what we all have to do to get them to run and sound right after we get them.  The company cannot build the bikes unless the model line meets or exceeds EPA requirements, and the dealers can't legally modify any emission system on any pre-sold (new inventory) motorcycle without fear of a heavy fine. A lot of dealers used to do pipe mods and put them  on the showroom floor (mine included), but have determined it's just not worth the risk anymore.  

That's due to that $250,000 fine that Penninsula Harley Davidson got from the EPA a couple years ago (there are a couple of threads on it in here somewhere).  Penninsula HD is just south of San Francisco.  The EPA was interviewed by the media just after that and they put out a statement saying that they were going after the dealerships first (because they have the deepest pockets) and then when they get the dealerships under control (they used the term "complying with the EPA laws" then they'll be going after the independent shops.  They subpeonaed PHD's service records for the previous three years or something like that.  

Word spread like wildfire and within just a couple of weeks you could no longer get any Nor Cal dealership to make any aftermarket mods.  Now it's pretty much spread across the country.

[Wheelsnkeels]

the lean condition and heat buildup occurs during closed loop. The factory map supplies normal fuel amounts at wide open throttle and warm up.

The concept of piggy back modules to me just adds another potential point of failure. race tuners are the best option to adjust the ECM directly.

The XIED changes the closed loop focus to enrich the A/F ratio to the pre EPA levels.

at under $200 it's a good value unless you are planning to race or go to Dyno shootouts?

[JCZ]

the lean condition and heat buildup occurs during closed loop. The factory map supplies normal fuel amounts at wide open throttle and warm up.

The concept of piggy back modules to me just adds another potential point of failure. race tuners are the best option to adjust the ECM directly.

The XIED changes the closed loop focus to enrich the A/F ratio to the pre EPA levels.

at under $200 it's a good value unless you are planning to race or go to Dyno shootouts?

Well, that's a given......every time you get more than a couple CVOs together......at least with the Nor Cal group.   Well, wait a minute....that goes for Chip, Howie and some of the boys from back east that I've rode with, too.

[Kevinski]

Hi Wheelsnkeels,

I like the sound of this, do you have more details of the product.

Kev

[Wheelsnkeels]

http://www.nightrider.com

read about it here Steve is very friendly and informative.

Seems half the performance guys are named Steve?

[CVOTequila]

I am due to get some freedom racing duals pretty soon, i know this will increase the lean mixture, but will it really heat the the engine up that much?  Dropping the CAT off seems like it would richen the mixture up....is this true?

[Wheelsnkeels]

It will actually have no effect during closed loop operation or 80% of the riding conditions.
The ECM will take the input fromthe O2 sensors and adjust it to the factory air / fuel ratio.

Cold start and wide open throttle are already programmed at enriched air / fuel ratio. Around 12:1

So you should see no noticeable change.

It will however not be any richer in closed loop than what the factory set it so you will have heat due to the lean condition they program it with to meet emission standards.

To change that you need an enrichment method either a so called "Tuner" to reprogram the ECM or an XIED to change the output of the O2 sensors to center on a richer air/fuel ratio.

[CVOTequila]

I have been looking at the TTS, what is this XIED?   Is it just replacement O2 sensors?

[Wheelsnkeels]

it installs in the harness plugged between the O2 sensors and the original harness.

it changes the ratio to 13.8 from 14.7

5 minute install and you can remove it for warranty service.

Steve should have some ready in December. He is awaiting the connectors for the 2010 O2 sensors.  

The TTS is a good product I would consider the new SEST only for the thumb drive data collection device to gather running data. The TTS requires the use of a laptop attached to the bike to gather the data.

Otherwise almost the same tool. Always bugs me when I hear people say they are "installing it" Too anal I guess they are external programming tools and all they are doing is re programming the data tables in the ECU.

Too many years in high tech I guess

[Wheelsnkeels]

http://www.nightrider.com/parts/

The XiED(tm) (Inline Enrichment Device)

The richer fuel mixture provides better heat reduction and improved performance.
Nightrider's unique "patent pending" design approximates a richer fuel mixtures to quickly and simply improve the closed loop fuel mixture on your TC96/103/110 engine from 14.6:1 to 13.8:1. This results in cooler exhaust temperatures. Recommended for stock bikes and those with upgraded exhaust or intake.

[CVOTequila]

Great info, thanks, I hadn't heard about that yet.  Will certainly look into it

[Sea Biscuit]

I believe that remapping is more to get them to run cooler.  Of course the power gains are an added benefit.   JMHO.

I think I'm going to go with the 1.75 Fullsac baffles, have the cat removed and a TTS tuner.  Keep the original look on the exhaust (just not sure what the smog police are gong to do in the next year or two but if anything, I think it'll just be a visual inspection.....like the bill that just got defeated here in Cali).  The SESG air cleaner is already an open air cleaner so I'll just keep rollin with that.

My goal is to just get it to run cooler, while making it sound a little more like a Harley but keeping it quiet as possible and get what ever performance increase I can get, going that route.  Oh yea, probably change cams, too.

With that statement, beware...it's a "slippery slope" my friend when you start going into the engine! 

[MKW]

Picking up my CVO SG after Thanksgiving and have been informed that the V&H High Output Slip Ons had the delivery date pushed back to 23 Dec.  Looks like I do my break-in with stock exhaust then make the switch to the Power Chamber and High Outputs with the first fluid changes.  Man, this is killing me.  I'm a do it yesterday type of guy.  I'll post a YouTube spot with full sound once the change is made. 

[CVOTequila]

yeah I want to get my exhaust as soon as possible, I have the Freedom Duals on order should be here on friday

[Wheelsnkeels]

waiting is painful isn't it? they'll be there soon and then you'll be anxiously waiting for the "Next" must have Mod!

[JCZ]

waiting is painful isn't it? they'll be there soon and then you'll be anxiously waiting for the "Next" must have Mod!

I've got a year long ticket for that ride.  Stop this thing.....I need off of it!

[TEQUILA -aka- RED RUM]

I've got a year long ticket for that ride.  Stop this thing.....I need off of it!

  I have just started .......it is addicting.............

[Wheelsnkeels]

Even the cold weather doesnt cool the thirst for more!

[CVOTequila]

JCZ isn't helping much either, becuase everytime I see one of his mods I think "damn I like that"     

[DICKW]

JCZ isn't helping much either, becuase everytime I see one of his mods I think "damn I like that"     

Geez that's easy.......Ask him for the list that should save you a little time. 

[CVOTequila]

Geez that's easy.......Ask him for the list that should save you a little time. 

tha would be one hellava list!!

[Sea Biscuit]

Geez that's easy.......Ask him for the list that should save you a little time. 

It would be quicker to read Tolstoy's War & Peace than to go through JCZ's list...also cheaper to buy the novel!

[Wheelsnkeels]

If I tried to buy all the stuff on JC's list I'd have to add one more thing?


Find somwhere new to live!

[JCZ]

Geez that's easy.......Ask him for the list that should save you a little time.  

They've all got the list.......that's what they're complaining about. Kind of like all those Ultra Classic owners chasing after you.

Oprah is on right now......about sexual addiction (had that all my life...no problem).  Tomorrow it's about Harley addiction......don't miss it.

[Wheelsnkeels]

Thats strange I have both not sure theres a cure? Or that I'd want to take it!

[CVOTequila]

Yeah..where is local sexoholics and harleyholics anonymous? 

[KODAGRIN]

I still want to use the V&H pro pipe 2 into 1......might look funny on the sesg with that empty saddlebag cutout on the left side but am leaning toward doing it anyway

[KODAGRIN]

I really don't like that big x looking crossover and pipe turning under the engine....it's just not right!

[Wheelsnkeels]

There's always the ghost pipe the empty hole is just wrong

[CVOTequila]

I really don't like that big x looking crossover and pipe turning under the engine....it's just not right!

Yeah I agree, I would much rather have the classic duals.  Freedom racing has 'em

[Wheelsnkeels]

Yeah I agree, I would much rather have the classic duals.  Freedom racing has 'em

How do the Boogie lights work for you? Was the install simple?

[JCZ]

How do the Boogie lights work for you? Was the install simple?

Not the Boogie brand (and don't ask) but they look the same....right side.....

[JCZ]

and the left side.....

The wife has red LEDs on her bike and they'd look great on that TS.

[Wheelsnkeels]

Not the Boogie brand (and don't ask) but they look the same....right side.....

Gottts Say  I like it!!

[KODAGRIN]

There's always the ghost pipe the empty hole is just wrong

How bout a replacement bag on the left side with no cutout (would add more storage inside bag)

[Wheelsnkeels]

How bout a replacement bag on the left side with no cutout (would add more storage inside bag)

Don't think Id redesign a CVO to fit a set of pipes? personally I bought this model because among other things I don't care for a Street Glide with a 2 into 1.

it would need to be an extended bag. Then you still have the notched fender to deal with. I believe it would negatively affect resales as well.

If it suits you by all means do it! but it's a lot less expensive to do the ghost pipe and leave the bags as is. 

[KODAGRIN]

Well ok then, but can't stand hanging a ghost pipe there not doin anything!  It's the wife's bike and she doesn't mind the crossover pipe, I really like the look of the true dual pipes (not going under the engine) but since low to mid range torque is so much better with the crossover than with the true duals......guess we will go with V&H

[Wheelsnkeels]

I can tell you that my V&H Power Duals have almost equal output. There is no accurate way to measure but the highly technical hand over the pipe method indicates fairly equal.

Definately added throatier tone. Of course you may get the same result from the Fullsac treatment. I attribute most of it to the cat removal.

With the power duals the crossover is near twice the diameter likely a contributer to the even Exhaust flow.

[CVOTequila]

How do the Boogie lights work for you? Was the install simple?

I really like the fireworks boogey lights, they are real bright, and they have several different modes of alternating colors......installation took some time, but it was worth it.

[JCZ]

How do the Boogie lights work for you? Was the install simple?

Here's a pic of both bikes together.  The red doesn't stand out as well due to the black motor....

[JCZ]

I really like the fireworks boogey lights, they are real bright, and they have several different modes of alternating colors......installation took some time, but it was worth it.

[CVOTequila]

  pictures are on thier way!

[Badger Mike]

Has anyone tried Rush Slip On's yet on their bike?

[KODAGRIN]

http://www.nightrider.com/parts/

The XiED(tm) (Inline Enrichment Device)

The richer fuel mixture provides better heat reduction and improved performance.
Nightrider's unique "patent pending" design approximates a richer fuel mixtures to quickly and simply improve the closed loop fuel mixture on your TC96/103/110 engine from 14.6:1 to 13.8:1. This results in cooler exhaust temperatures. Recommended for stock bikes and those with upgraded exhaust or intake.

[/quote

If the mixture is too rich, is it possible to "wash" the oil film off the cylinder walls enough to compromise the piston ring seal and cause oil usage?

[KODAGRIN]

From what I've heard, slip ons are a waste of money if you don't get rid of the catalytic converters.

[Wheelsnkeels]

http://www.nightrider.com/parts/

The XiED(tm) (Inline Enrichment Device)

The richer fuel mixture provides better heat reduction and improved performance.
Nightrider's unique "patent pending" design approximates a richer fuel mixtures to quickly and simply improve the closed loop fuel mixture on your TC96/103/110 engine from 14.6:1 to 13.8:1. This results in cooler exhaust temperatures. Recommended for stock bikes and those with upgraded exhaust or intake.

If the mixture is too rich, is it possible to "wash" the oil film off the cylinder walls enough to compromise the piston ring seal and cause oil usage?

The IED's come in different settings the most rich 13:8 to 1 for Closed Loop.

During open loop "Cold Idle" and "WOT" it is as rich as 12:1 from the plant. Never seen a rich condition capable of that symptom.

However at 12:1 you will see black smoke from the tailpipe under acceleration

[Wheelsnkeels]

From what I've heard, slip ons are a waste of money if you don't get rid of the catalytic converters.

If all your after is "Sound" improvement they all will add some growl!

You will get a much lower tone to the exhaust note after the CAT is removed.

[KODAGRIN]

Am looking for the most low to mid-range power improvement, like some sound improvement but not loud.  Can you buy the V&H power dual head pipe without mufflers?

[Badger Mike]

Great sound on the V&H pipes and Boom Cans!  Thanks for the You Tube, it really helps me in trying to figure out what to do for pipes when the snow melts   I've run Rush Slip Ons for my 2007 FLHX and liked the sound, not too loud and not too quiet, and very good performance off the Dyno.

[Myko]

The better half has Rush slip-ons on her '07 Fatboy - the sound is nice (subjective) and the bike is perky. The V&H Big Radius on my Dux was louder, a bit too much at times... the Rush on hers were a happy compromise.. good sounding but not crushing on the decibels.

[Badger Mike]

Agreed, I thought they were a nice compromise between the V&H or Rheinharts and the stock mufflers.  Rode all the way to Red Lodge, MT and back and my ears didn't ring anymore than they normally do!  That's what you get for 15 years of shooting artillery shells!  I would think they would sound even better coming off of the 110.

[Wheelsnkeels]

Am lookingFor the most complete performance package, pair Power Duals with any of the Vance & Hines slip-on mufflers  for the most low to midrange power improvement, like some sound improvement but not loud.  Can you buy the V&H power dual head pipe without mufflers?

Power Duals are only Headers

If you read the description it states compatible with slip on mufflers.

http://www.vanceandhines.com/products/touring-09-powerduals/powerduals.html


It only comes that way even though the "Power Duals" name may lead you to think it is a complete system. In fact it is just the Head pipes.

[Badger Mike]

Got it, thanks.

[Wheelsnkeels]

My feeling is you will find even the Rush a little louder with the V&H Power Duals. Just a hunch. 

I think it would be do to the more even flow through both mufflers.

Each time I ride them it feels like a shot of testosterone.

Gotta Love it!