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[Wheelsnkeels]

  did you do a tune.............

Havent done anythig to require one yet I will add Steve Mullins XIEDs when they are released in December to correct the lean A/F ratio.

http://www.nightrider.com/parts/hd2007hd_heat_01.htm
2007 and Newer Harley bikes:
There is more independent proof that you do not need to remap the HD EFI when installing mufflers. The March 2009 (page 66) Cycle World dyno tested a set of slip-on mufflers on an '09 FLH, getting 5% more HP and 9% more torque on a "bone-stock, including EFI mapping" bike. Cycle World is not known as a big Harley cheerleader, so it would be a reasonable assumption that they are not going to do any special favors for MOCO.
The CW information is right in line with what HD published in the Fall 2006 Enthusiast Magazine showing a 3% HP and 7% torque increase with slightly more restrictive mufflers and air cleaner kit. American Iron Magazine has also published similar articles about "no remap" upgrades involving exhaust/air cleaner changes.

How much information has to be presented to Harley Riders that remapping of the ECM is not required for exhaust/air cleaner upgrades for closed loop bikes? When it can be shown that much of the "gain" in power for bikes remapped with expensive tuning software and piggyback controllers would have occurred without spending $400-$1000, riders need to start thinking about what they are really trying to accomplish on their bikes rather than blindly following the "you must remap just to add exhaust/ac" advice that has been discredited.

[Kevinski]

Wide open throttle is not closed loop, it's from the map.

Still not sure to do with mine when I get it. Think i will start with slip-ons and see how it runs. I have a VIN  number as of yesterday and the bike is in Europe so should be with me in the UK next week.

Kev

[JCZ]

I believe that remapping is more to get them to run cooler.  Of course the power gains are an added benefit.   JMHO.

I think I'm going to go with the 1.75 Fullsac baffles, have the cat removed and a TTS tuner.  Keep the original look on the exhaust (just not sure what the smog police are gong to do in the next year or two but if anything, I think it'll just be a visual inspection.....like the bill that just got defeated here in Cali).  The SESG air cleaner is already an open air cleaner so I'll just keep rollin with that.

My goal is to just get it to run cooler, while making it sound a little more like a Harley but keeping it quiet as possible and get what ever performance increase I can get, going that route.  Oh yea, probably change cams, too.

[JCZ]

It's all about the EPA.  Emissions and noise.  The manufacturers have to meet certain requirements and in order for Harley to maintain their V-Twin, air-cooled design, they have to do such things as CATs, quieter (more restrictive) mufflers, and set the air/fuel ratio so lean that the bike will meet those emission/noise standards.  The good news is, Harley meets the current standards up until at least 2113, the bad news is what we all have to do to get them to run and sound right after we get them.  The company cannot build the bikes unless the model line meets or exceeds EPA requirements, and the dealers can't legally modify any emission system on any pre-sold (new inventory) motorcycle without fear of a heavy fine. A lot of dealers used to do pipe mods and put them  on the showroom floor (mine included), but have determined it's just not worth the risk anymore.  

That's due to that $250,000 fine that Penninsula Harley Davidson got from the EPA a couple years ago (there are a couple of threads on it in here somewhere).  Penninsula HD is just south of San Francisco.  The EPA was interviewed by the media just after that and they put out a statement saying that they were going after the dealerships first (because they have the deepest pockets) and then when they get the dealerships under control (they used the term "complying with the EPA laws" then they'll be going after the independent shops.  They subpeonaed PHD's service records for the previous three years or something like that.  

Word spread like wildfire and within just a couple of weeks you could no longer get any Nor Cal dealership to make any aftermarket mods.  Now it's pretty much spread across the country.

[Wheelsnkeels]

the lean condition and heat buildup occurs during closed loop. The factory map supplies normal fuel amounts at wide open throttle and warm up.

The concept of piggy back modules to me just adds another potential point of failure. race tuners are the best option to adjust the ECM directly.

The XIED changes the closed loop focus to enrich the A/F ratio to the pre EPA levels.

at under $200 it's a good value unless you are planning to race or go to Dyno shootouts?

[JCZ]

the lean condition and heat buildup occurs during closed loop. The factory map supplies normal fuel amounts at wide open throttle and warm up.

The concept of piggy back modules to me just adds another potential point of failure. race tuners are the best option to adjust the ECM directly.

The XIED changes the closed loop focus to enrich the A/F ratio to the pre EPA levels.

at under $200 it's a good value unless you are planning to race or go to Dyno shootouts?

Well, that's a given......every time you get more than a couple CVOs together......at least with the Nor Cal group.   Well, wait a minute....that goes for Chip, Howie and some of the boys from back east that I've rode with, too.

[Kevinski]

Hi Wheelsnkeels,

I like the sound of this, do you have more details of the product.

Kev

[Wheelsnkeels]

http://www.nightrider.com

read about it here Steve is very friendly and informative.

Seems half the performance guys are named Steve?

[CVOTequila]

I am due to get some freedom racing duals pretty soon, i know this will increase the lean mixture, but will it really heat the the engine up that much?  Dropping the CAT off seems like it would richen the mixture up....is this true?

[Wheelsnkeels]

It will actually have no effect during closed loop operation or 80% of the riding conditions.
The ECM will take the input fromthe O2 sensors and adjust it to the factory air / fuel ratio.

Cold start and wide open throttle are already programmed at enriched air / fuel ratio. Around 12:1

So you should see no noticeable change.

It will however not be any richer in closed loop than what the factory set it so you will have heat due to the lean condition they program it with to meet emission standards.

To change that you need an enrichment method either a so called "Tuner" to reprogram the ECM or an XIED to change the output of the O2 sensors to center on a richer air/fuel ratio.

[CVOTequila]

I have been looking at the TTS, what is this XIED?   Is it just replacement O2 sensors?

[Wheelsnkeels]

it installs in the harness plugged between the O2 sensors and the original harness.

it changes the ratio to 13.8 from 14.7

5 minute install and you can remove it for warranty service.

Steve should have some ready in December. He is awaiting the connectors for the 2010 O2 sensors.  

The TTS is a good product I would consider the new SEST only for the thumb drive data collection device to gather running data. The TTS requires the use of a laptop attached to the bike to gather the data.

Otherwise almost the same tool. Always bugs me when I hear people say they are "installing it" Too anal I guess they are external programming tools and all they are doing is re programming the data tables in the ECU.

Too many years in high tech I guess

[Wheelsnkeels]

http://www.nightrider.com/parts/

The XiED(tm) (Inline Enrichment Device)

The richer fuel mixture provides better heat reduction and improved performance.
Nightrider's unique "patent pending" design approximates a richer fuel mixtures to quickly and simply improve the closed loop fuel mixture on your TC96/103/110 engine from 14.6:1 to 13.8:1. This results in cooler exhaust temperatures. Recommended for stock bikes and those with upgraded exhaust or intake.

[CVOTequila]

Great info, thanks, I hadn't heard about that yet.  Will certainly look into it

[Sea Biscuit]

I believe that remapping is more to get them to run cooler.  Of course the power gains are an added benefit.   JMHO.

I think I'm going to go with the 1.75 Fullsac baffles, have the cat removed and a TTS tuner.  Keep the original look on the exhaust (just not sure what the smog police are gong to do in the next year or two but if anything, I think it'll just be a visual inspection.....like the bill that just got defeated here in Cali).  The SESG air cleaner is already an open air cleaner so I'll just keep rollin with that.

My goal is to just get it to run cooler, while making it sound a little more like a Harley but keeping it quiet as possible and get what ever performance increase I can get, going that route.  Oh yea, probably change cams, too.

With that statement, beware...it's a "slippery slope" my friend when you start going into the engine!