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[kiwi]

Hi guys. I have bought a 2010 Ultra limited. The first time I put it in gear I thought some of the gearing must have smashed it made such a noise. Dealer said it was normal and it would quieten down a bit once it had a few Kilometres on it.  It has not and recently I hit the 10K mark and so I changed all the oils to AMSOIL 20W-50. Not any noticeable improvement.  The gear changes are noisy on all gears and frankly it is beginning to really bug  me as it is ridiculously loud. Also if I start the engine with the clutch lever held in and with low gear selected the bike lurches as the starter engages.
How can this happen if the clutch is pulled in?  Is it possible that the gears are not disengaging properly when the clutch is engaged? If this is so then is that the reason for the noisy gear selections? You may be suprised to hear that the dealer has no idea why it should be doing this and no resolution to suggest.
Anyone with technical knowledge able to offer some opinions for me?

On a different note I can tell you that we are now into our Fall and the temps are cooling down in the morning and later at night. When it is cold enough the wild deer herds will want to breed and that is when the Stags will begin their roaring. I will be off into the bush in a few weeks where I will attempt to roar a red stag up for a close encounter with me. If you get them good and worked up and the wind doesn't blow your scent to them then they can throw caution completely to the wind and they will come right up to you in order to do battle thinking to win a hind. (female deer) A fantastic if little frightening experience.
Just in case you did not know that.
Okay cheers for now.

Kiwi

[Half_Crazy]

Dealer said it was normal

Say it ain't so.

[kiwi]

Say it ain't so.

Yup that is what he told me, and at the last service at 9000Kms he took me around the dealership and started up some new models and they all clanged into gear even after waiting some minutes to warm them up. He did not think it was good but then what can he do when Harley send them out to him like that. "Normal" like I said. Sheesh.

[grc]

First thing to check with a CVO is the hydraulic clutch to make sure it has been bled of ALL air.  Very common to have air in the system from the factory, and that will cause the clutch to not fully disengage.

Next, try this little routine to see if it makes selecting first gear any quieter.  With the engine running and the trans in neutral, pull the clutch lever in and then quickly open and close the throttle, then let the engine idle for about 5 to 10 seconds before engaging first gear.  The sudden application of torque when you blip the throttle should break the clutch plates loose if they are sticking, and once the clutch is fully released the trans input shaft will slow down and eventually stop rotating.  Once the shaft isn't spinning, there should be no clunk when you engage first.  You may have to slip the clutch a little to engage first if the gears stop with the shift rings not lined up.  What all of this will tell you is whether or not your problem is related to clutch drag.  Most likely it is, since it's a very common thing on Harley's.

Assuming the clutch is free of air in the lines and working properly, the drag should improve with some miles as the high spots wear off the clutch plates.  Another thing you might want to try is running automatic trans fluid in the primary.  That's what I run (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF), and it improved clutch operation noticeably over the other fluids I've used over the years.


Jerry

[dep47]

I agree on the Mobil Synthetic ATF.  Sure helped mine.  30,000 miles and still going strong.

[kiwi]

First thing to check with a CVO is the hydraulic clutch to make sure it has been bled of ALL air.  Manual Clutch, not hydraulic on the Ultra Limited. Has a 103cu engine also. Assuming the clutch is free of air in the lines and working properly, the drag should improve with some miles as the high spots wear off the clutch plates.  Another thing you might want to try is running automatic trans fluid in the primary.  That's what I run (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF), and it improved clutch operation noticeably over the other fluids I've used over the years.
The AMSOIL product I have now put into the engine Trans and Primary is rated to do just that but I do not think that that is the guts of what is wrong here.Thanks for the interest and suggestions

[grc]

First thing to check with a CVO is the hydraulic clutch to make sure it has been bled of ALL air.  Manual Clutch, not hydraulic on the Ultra Limited. Has a 103cu engine also. Assuming the clutch is free of air in the lines and working properly, the drag should improve with some miles as the high spots wear off the clutch plates.  Another thing you might want to try is running automatic trans fluid in the primary.  That's what I run (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF), and it improved clutch operation noticeably over the other fluids I've used over the years.
The AMSOIL product I have now put into the engine Trans and Primary is rated to do just that but I do not think that that is the guts of what is wrong here.Thanks for the interest and suggestions

  Sorry, I thought we were talking about a CVO.  Obviously, my comment on the hydraulics won't help.  But the idea remains the same, you need to make certain the clutch is releasing as much as possible.  With a cable clutch there are two adjustments, one at the clutch release pushrod, and the other at the lever for cable free play.  Your dealer should check both adjustments.

The harsh engagement is a result of the difference in speed of the gears when the shift dogs engage.  When you are sitting still, the trans output shaft obviously isn't moving.  With the clutch engaged, however, the input shaft is moving.  Ideally, when you release the clutch the input shaft should slow and stop, and there would be no large difference in speeds as the dogs engage.  What really happens with the typical Harley, however, is that the clutch doesn't release completely and the input shaft keeps turning.  The result is a big clunk or clank.  Try what I suggested before about blipping the throttle and waiting a few seconds before shifting into first; what that is doing is helping the clutch plates break loose and then letting the input shaft slow down.  It's not a fix, it just shows you what is causing the noise.  I always do this the first time I shift into first after a cold start on my bike, and I don't have a clunk.

As for the Amsoil or SYN3 or Mobil 1 V-Twin "All 3 Holes" stuff, it's not the same as using the appropriate specialized fluids in the various holes.  It will work, but it is not the optimum solution.  Gear oil in the trans, motor oil in the engine, and like I said ATF works great in the primary.  Not absolutely necessary to do it that way, but you might wonder why Harley had separate fluids for the first hundred years if motor oil in the trans and primary was such a great idea. 


Jerry

[kiwi]

  Sorry, I thought we were talking about a CVO.  Obviously, my comment on the hydraulics won't help.  But the idea remains the same, you need to make certain the clutch is releasing as much as possible.  With a cable clutch there are two adjustments, one at the clutch release pushrod, and the other at the lever for cable free play.  Your dealer should check both adjustments.

The harsh engagement is a result of the difference in speed of the gears when the shift dogs engage.  Sounds about right When you are sitting still, the trans output shaft obviously isn't moving.  With the clutch engaged, however, the input shaft is moving.  Ideally, when you release the clutch the input shaft should slow and stop, and there would be no large difference in speeds as the dogs engage.  What really happens with the typical Harley, however, is that the clutch doesn't release completely and the input shaft keeps turning.  The result is a big clunk or clank.  Try what I suggested before about blipping the throttle and waiting a few seconds before shifting into first; what that is doing is helping the clutch plates break loose and then letting the input shaft slow down.  I just went to the shed and tried this out. BIG Clang and the bike lurched forward when it went into gear. Do you think there should be enough clutch adjustment to be able to prevent this or is it a bad design?It's not a fix, it just shows you what is causing the noise.  I always do this the first time I shift into first after a cold start on my bike, and I don't have a clunk.

As for the Amsoil or SYN3 or Mobil 1 V-Twin "All 3 Holes" stuff, it's not the same as using the appropriate specialized fluids in the various holes.  It will work, but it is not the optimum solution.  Gear oil in the trans, motor oil in the engine, and like I said ATF works great in the primary.  Not absolutely necessary to do it that way, but you might wonder why Harley had separate fluids for the first hundred years if motor oil in the trans and primary was such a great idea. 


Jerry