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[SEULTRA]

[highlight]There are decisions being made in High Places, which are based on facts and information we will never have knowledge of, or, be informed about.[/highlight]

SEULTRA: That is true. I work in such an environment.

[highlight]All we will know, is how the liberal media sees this War, or anything else they choose to focus on, and reports it. [/highlight]

SEULTRA: Actually there are all kinds of media reporting their particular slant on the war in Iraq (among other things) and not all of it is liberal biased.

[highlight]That said, how can I make an intelligent decision about our Country's involvement in Irag, without all the facts?[/highlight]

SEULTRA: I guess you're in the same boat as the rest of us... we gather information from sources we deem credible and then form an opinion and that is what we believe and profess.

[highlight]How can I stand on the sidelines, under the blanket of Security this Great Country provides for me, and defame those that have this information?  I can't, really.[/highlight]

 SEULTRA: Good for you Hub... defaming is counter productive and akin to a cheap shot ... asking well thought out, honest and sincere questions is IMHO, patriotic.

 [highlight]I must trust those in Power over this situation, to do the right thing.[/highlight]

SEULTRA: Confidence in our leaders is a good thing and should be re-evaluated from time to time to ensure it is well placed.  

I don't know about the World, but I think the USA is a safer place, with Saddam decomposing.
What I do know is, I'm glad I haven't been entrusted with the great burden our Commander in Chief has.
   Later--HUBBARD                

[JR]

I fall right in line with my Brother Hubbard! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] As 1 death of a fallen soldier is too much, it is the sacrifice of freedom and of war. As we are constantly reminded of the death toll of this war it got me to thinking about the lives that are lost in this country EVERY DAY. After a Yahoo search I was alarmed to see the yearly totals of murder in this wonderful country we live in. Since 2002-2005 there was over 65,000 murders and over 5,500,000 violent crimes. Our soldiers are risking their lives for our Freedom and while 3000 deaths is a great number, it is relatively small compared to the senseless deaths that go on in our cities and neighborhoods EVERYDAY! And how much of this is reported in our press today? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] If we are going to judge the affects of a war on a number, then we are loosing a senseless war right here in our own country! God Bless our Soldiers and God Bless America! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

                                                                              JR [smiley=bananarock.gif]

[owenja]

I fall right in line with my Brother Hubbard! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] As 1 death of a fallen soldier is too much, it is the sacrifice of freedom and of war. As we are constantly reminded of the death toll of this war it got me to thinking about the lives that are lost in this country EVERY DAY. After a Yahoo search I was alarmed to see the yearly totals of murder in this wonderful country we live in. Since 2002-2005 there was over 65,000 murders and over 5,500,000 violent crimes. Our soldiers are risking their lives for our Freedom and while 3000 deaths is a great number, it is relatively small compared to the senseless deaths that go on in our cities and neighborhoods EVERYDAY! And how much of this is reported in our press today? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] If we are going to judge the affects of a war on a number, then we are loosing a senseless war right here in our own country! God Bless our Soldiers and God Bless America! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

                                                                              JR [smiley=bananarock.gif]

I agree and we're not even mentioning that although these men and women would rather not be there, they all volunteered to serve their country.  On 9/11 it took only hours for the terrorists to take 3,000 lives ON OUR SOIL, and although 1 is too many it's taken several years for us to loose 3,000 in Iraq and not 1 attack on U.S. soil since.  For that time span we are fortunate to have only lost that many and the only exlplanation for that is that we have the best trained and equiped military in the world.  Again, I'm not a prophet but do you imagine that if we pulled out of Iraq today that a year from now we could say the same thing?    

These Islamic extremists were not provoked to strike us because we were in Afganistan or Iraq.  We are in Afganistan and Iraq because we were provoked to strike back.

Just some more of my thoughts [smiley=soapbox.gif]

Jim

[CVOwner]

I hate seeing this site turn political and 3,000 is a terrible price, but it is most certainly is not for meddling in a country's internal affairs.  Saddam held not only his country hostage but the entire region and at times the world.  The facts are that he did have and did use chemical weapons on both the Kurds and Iranians.  He refused to bow to the U.N. and the best intelligence we had at the time suggested that he still had weapons of mass distruction.  

As a retired member of our Armed Forces I would rather not have any of our troops in harms way.  However I was and those currently serving are committed to ensuring the safety and security of our country.  Although Saddam is gone leaving Iraq in its current state would only embolden other fanatical groups and countries or provide a safe haven for those who would continue to plan and carry out strikes against our country.

I don't claim to have all of the answers or a solution to what's going on in the mideast, but I do support our President when it comes to decisions he makes regarding our military and the safety of this country.  Lobbing cruise missles and threatening did not work for previous administrations and neither did pulling out when hit (see Lebanon and Somalia).  Although it pains me every time I watch the news and see new American casualties we need to finish what we started.

I hope and pray that the Presidents soon to be announced "new policy" will work and help speed up the outcome in Iraq so that our troups can be home with their families as we all are.

Sorry for the rant........

Jim

Amen to that brother! Thats my kind of rant!

[RJ749]

[highlight]I hope[/highlight] and pray that the Presidents soon to be announced [highlight]"new policy" will work [/highlight]and help speed up the outcome in Iraq so that our troups can be home with their families as we all are.
Jim

This parrots my concern as well.  It appears with the policy yet to be announced many in Congress are positioning the nation for another "CF" in Iraq.

It would never happen but I would sure love to see the media stop coloring the perception of our success or failure in Iraq and simply let the military do its mission.

With the Presidential election only two years away and the democrats sweeping victories in the last election, I fear the next two years will drag our military along through a ridiculous battle to win political victories at home rather than the needed victory in Iraq.

[SPIDERMAN]

I have no doubt in my heart that Sadaan deserved his fate, no sympathy for him at all. I am angered at the statements his family made afterward calling him a " mytyr"  and angried still that there were demonstrations after his execution. But those demonstrations made me realize that he had many supporters who were such of their own mind and not simply out of fear for him. So we have Sunni's, Shiites, Batthists, and Kurds that all want to run the country and none want to share power with the others. They all have centuries old scores to settle with each other and a hatred that runs so deep we as Americans cannot even begin to fathom it. In my mind, they only "stratagy" that could possible hope to resolve this conflict is total anniliation of all parties involved. Did not God obliterate Soddam and Gommorah as his only means of dealing with them ? Did not God create the Great Flood ? In an area where children are raised to hate from birth, there are no innocents. When women strap bombs to their chests to fulfill their desitiny in fight the Jihad there are no innocents. So what should we do ? This is not a war that can be won with foot soldiers and rifles. Not even a war that can be won with tanks and Bradley Fighting vehicles. This is a war that can only be won with superiorf fire power and superior technology. The question for all of us is " do we have the national will to create another Hiroshima ? "  " Can we withstand the worldwide condemnation of another Nagasaki ? " If the answer to that is no, then accept that it is time to admit the entire war was a collosal blunder and get out as quickly as possible and leave these people to their own destinies.

B B  

[Midnight Rider]

I have no doubt in my heart that Saddam deserved his fate, no sympathy for him at all. I am angered at the statements his family made afterward calling him a " mytyr"  and angried still that there were demonstrations after his execution. But those demonstrations made me realize that he had many supporters who were such of their own mind and not simply out of fear for him. So we have Sunni's, Shiites, Batthists, and Kurds that all want to run the country and none want to share power with the others. They all have centuries old scores to settle with each other and a hatred that runs so deep we as Americans cannot even begin to fathom it. In my mind, they only "stratagy" that could possible hope to resolve this conflict is total anniliation of all parties involved. Did not God obliterate Soddam and Gommorah as his only means of dealing with them ? Did not God create the Great Flood ? In an area where children are raised to hate from birth, there are no innocents. When women strap bombs to their chests to fulfill their desitiny in fight the Jihad there are no innocents. So what should we do ? This is not a war that can be won with foot soldiers and rifles. Not even a war that can be won with tanks and Bradley Fighting vehicles. This is a war that can only be won with superiorf fire power and superior technology. The question for all of us is " do we have the national will to create another Hiroshima ? "  " Can we withstand the worldwide condemnation of another Nagasaki ? " If the answer to that is no, then accept that it is time to admit the entire war was a collosal blunder and get out as quickly as possible and leave these people to their own destinies.

B B  

Good points, B B....

The military "portion" of this war in Iraq was won in a few months.  The nearsightedness, and lack of understanding the consequences of removing the lid from Pandora's box which, right or wrong, had been held in place by a ruthless dictator, Saddam, is unforgivable.  There can be no military victory in Iraq, given the situation now.  The military victory has already been won.  This is now a security/police function, with no end in sight.  Nuking the whole bunch, while for each of us might be a gut reaction to solve the problem, is not an option anyone can pursue.  We do not train our military to perform the function of policemen at this point in time.  Perhaps a portion of the armed services should be better trained in that capacity, but the current administration did not plan past the end of their own nose, IMO, so here we are, bogged down in a situation where the very people we started out thinking we were going to help, are killing both our soldiers and each other because of political/nuances of religion/ethnic issues they have had with each other for hundreds and hundreds of years.  The "liberal" press, Congress, and we as Citizens, should, and have the right to, question our leadership when there have been horrendous mistakes made in policy/procedure which continue to keep our brave men and women pinned down in a currently untenable situation.  After the lines of battle have been blurred by the defeat of an enemies armed forces, the military role is no longer clearly defined.  What is their job at this point?  To go on patrol every day in a concrete and dirt jungle, scare up a few insurgents, shoot them or arrest them, get shot at, or worse, killed?  Repeat this same behavior day in and day out for how long?  To make that country stable at this point is not a military problem, it is a political one.  How much money, and how many lives should be lost in the attempt to solve what is now tribal warfare between factions competing for power, and who obviously are not interested in "our" solution to "their" problems.  Our presence is providing a focal point for various "causes", and a target for those who do not value their own lives, much less anyone else's.

There are no simple solutions to complex problems, and removing/replacing political/governmental structure in a divided country is about as complex as it gets....

I'm glad the SOB is dead, but I'm not sure of our methods of achieving that goal...there are easier/cheaper ways to get rid of individuals...perhaps we should have just killed the ones we knew were "bad", and let some others step up to the plate until we decided on somebody we could live with.

[SEULTRA]

I believe our military should be used for operations to ensure our national security and not as policemen in foreign countries. I agree that the military mission in Iraq is complete. Return control of Iraq back to the elected government so they can govern themselves. They will evolve into what works for them (they've been doing that for thousands of years). I seriously doubt it will ever resemble our form of government.

[RJ749]

Maybe should be in cvo pets, guess who's cat.............

[The Bolvine Gigolo!]

Hey! Rjob
Thats cold but I liked it !!

[CVOJOE]

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room" (Dr. Strangelove,1964)

  [smiley=stop.gif] [smiley=hanged.gif] [smiley=2cr_01.gif]