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[LarryB]

Hey, just talked to my buddy the parts manager at my local H.D. dealership. I asked him if he has heard anything about up and coming systems for our new Glides. During the conversation he cautioned me about removing the cat from the pipes ect. When I asked why he stated this summer a customer took out the crank bearings and when the H.D. rep came out to take a look the first thing he did was pop the side cover. Power Commander, the rep canceled his warrenty on the spot. My buddy said he was looking for something in order to blow this customer out of the water. So, I was told buy a set of pipes from where ever, but keep the stock pipes stock in case something happens and you need warrenty work. He stated had his dealership put the Power Commander on, they would have removed it prior to the zone rep getting there. He said it was as much a shock for them as it was to the customer. Thoughts on this matter??

well, yep, that would do it, should have known to take it off, thats why the Mastertune is good as you can load the original HD settings into the ECM when taking the bike in for warranty work

[TIF2]

^^^ +1

[tjstreetglide]

Question
Mo co wants you to purchase super tuner to do mods on your engine. The dealer says they can't do any mapping unless you have a tuner.
What happens if your bike is not running right and you have to get a new map for it to run? They must have a way to do this work, correct?
So, it has to be bunk that they cant tune your bike unless "you" purchase a $500 tuning module from them.
Just wondering
TJ

[TIF2]

What happens if your bike is not running right and you have to get a new map for it to run? They must have a way to do this work, correct?

Well ... they wouldn't "tune" it in the sense that they would adjust parameters of the stock ECU, they would just replace the ECU. The stock map has been tuned with all stock induction parts - all parts affecting the combustion process - so unless those parts have been changed, the factory ECU parameters are sound.

If there is a malfunction in one of the parts - injectors, cat gets plugged, etc - then the offending part is replaced such that the factory ECU parameters will work as designed. If a part is modded that affects the amount of air that gets moved through the engine (remember, an internal combustion engine is nothing more than an air pump) then the factory paramaeters are no longer valid as the amount of fuel needs to be changed to overcome a rich or lean condition created by the changed part.

The SERT (and other "tuners") are designed to allow adjustment of parameters for changes in stock parts that affect the combustion process. I don't think any shop can change (nor would they) the stock ECU parameters if the bike is 100% stock, they would just swap the ECU.

My input anyway ....

[LarryB]

the only way the can void the warranty is by PROVING that the Power commander was the cause of whatever was wrong. the HD Rep will say, Not Covered, and walk away and the customer says ok and take it in the ass. Need to stand up to them

[jacksglide]

Any one have input on the "Power Commander 5". I was told by the local hot rod shop (Bikes only) that this is a very good investment for our particular needs.

[LarryB]

Any one have input on the "Power Commander 5". I was told by the local hot rod shop (Bikes only) that this is a very good investment for our particular needs.

Jack, what bike do you have?

[jacksglide]

2010 cvo Street Glide.

[LarryB]

it's fair, not much more

[Sapper6]

Had a long talk with Steve Cole , from Mastertune, yesterday. He is suggesting a different approach. leave the Cat in and gut the muffler. just a thought.

LarryB,

Do you remember why steve recommended this?  I'd like to hear more about why.

I can honestly say as many here might agree that I want to improve the condition of the bike along the lines of heat and improved performance, but I want to ensure my warranty is water tight. 

I've been seriously considering the extended warranty offered through the Military sales exchange program, which is 5 years vs. 7, but seems to offer most of the same benefits i.e. tires, tow, hotel, loaner bike, etc.

I plan on using the TTS mastertune which according to a previous post by steve answers "NO" when the HD tuning software asks if its been modified, plus there is the added security of being able to reload the stock ECU map.

Finally it doesn't sound like there is any sure fire way to remove the cat and not have it identifiable other than to replace the pipes and change them back to the stock ones when you have to take the bike in for warranty service.  Perhaps this is a common approach, but what can be done when your on the road and would like to take you bike in to the closest dealer for service and don't have the OEM exhaust to bolt back on?

[LarryB]

first off, if you are going to remove the Cat, a more methodical approach would be advised. Don't just cut the head pipe, remove, and reweld. Grind the rear weld on the collection chamber off, then remove the Y from the collection chamber axcessing the Cat, remove and reweld at the old weld point. this way it has the appearance of stock, very clean mod.
But the two things we are trying to achieve are reduce heat, increase performance/noise. if we open the muffler, ie, free flow baffles, we get more air out, that in combo with NO CAT gets more air out, but with ramifications. Loss of back pressure, bad low end, but good top end. Seems most of us really want power at the line, and good umph high up. By leaving the cats in you maintain constant back pressure in both cylinders. do a total baffle remove and install a Dummy end cap, giving the appearance of a baffle. All this with a good TUNE, TTS preferably, you will reduce heat, give more rumble; not alot but throaty still. you'll have performance gains through the tune and getting rid of the baffles, like we did long ago. We are concerned with engine/oil temps but there is also concern with exhaust temps. this helps balance the three. For clarification, these are mods that we constantly fine tune and tweak. HD is for ever trying to change it up and so will we. this conversation with Steve was revolving around a 2010 LTD 103, and I had to figure a Big Sucker stage 1 into the mix.
As far as what HD can read, safest bet would be to always load the original ECM settings when going in for major warrantee work. If your going on a long trip, take a copy with you and a small laptop just in case, if you do that HD will not know you where there, no footprint

[Sapper6]

Is what your suggesting to the headpipe similar or perhaps exactly the method done by fulsac?

I believe I could do this myself, I just need to make sure I have the procedure clear before I undertake such a task.  I've seen a post from the SEEG guys coring out their cats, so I'll go back and see how it relates to this situation.

Thanks!

[Sapper6]

Found a post which makes reference to the coring, but makes me think about my original plan which was to keep the stock pipes stock and go with another part for the header keeping the option to bolt the original back on if needed.  Anyone know if fulsac will produce a catless header for the SESG...  eventually

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=32508.0

[LarryB]

Not sure how Fullsac does the removal, I think they just cut at the weldine and reweld. I'm suggesting to remove the weld.

[CVOStreetglide]

Not sure how Fullsac does the removal, I think they just cut at the weldine and reweld. I'm suggesting to remove the weld.

Larry:

I thought I read in the TTS documentation that the Master Tune product does leave a "footprint" in the ECM. However it still makes sense to be able to reload the stock map if you need major service as you suggested.

I am hoping Steve will find a way to allow comparison of the stock and the modded maps along with a "view"stock factory map feature.


I am hoping (and waiting) to see if the new 2010 Reinhart True Dual header pipes will be announced this week or next with BIKETOBERFEST in progress. The it'll be time for the tuner decision.
 
Regards