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[Chief]

Got this off of the Yahoo TC88 board.

The California Air Resources Board (CARB) announced recently that it concluded an investigation against Dynojet Research, Inc. At issue was the company's "Power Commander" that can be used to alter the air-fuel mixture and engine timing of on- and off-road motorcycles. CARB said that the installation of these devices would adversely affect the emissions control systems of vehicles that were certified by the original equipment manufacturers to comply with the agency's emissions standards. Dynojet has now certified a California version of the "Power Commander" and has agreed to pay $1,000,000 in penalties to the California Air Pollution Control Fund.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=5732&Page=1

I wonder how far this will propogate. Is this the beginning of the end? Is the SERT next? Thundermax too? 

[Fired00d]

How does that/would that affect bikes that were built before the stricter EPA/CARB guidelines? Would the be "grandfathered"?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Chief]

How does that/would that affect bikes that were built before the stricter EPA/CARB guidelines? Would the be "grandfathered"?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I don't the answer to that one, but I would guess that's like closing the barn door after all the animals are gone. My question is more of "What's next?" 

[Steve_G]

This is a truly scary development.  I would agree that the SERT will be next.  Why would it be exempt.  Big brother has gone too far.  I guess it's the Land of the Fee. 
One shift of a diesel school bus throws a cloud of lung choking smoke into the air that amounts to more than a years pollution from a motorcycle.  The school bus probably gets 7 mpg.  the bike +40, and CARB wants to choke the bike out of existence! 
The good old EPA should be required to exercise common sense.  I say they're unconstitutional. 
If you can't buy an air cooled Harley (which looks to only be a few years away -at most) we will have lost one of the great heritages of freedom in this country.  Thanks EPA! 
The EPA's definition of the perfect motorcycle:  Can't hear it, has 8 air bags, a roll-over cage, self deploying training wheels which actuate automatically below 5 mph or when cornering at more than a 15 degree lean angle, 100 mpg, 75mph governor.  Oh and by the way, can't be used on public roads. 

[jackyass]

that's great steve.  I'll vote for you!!                                                       

[mr_magoo]

Since the SERT is for race purposes only and would void the warranty, maybe that there disclaimer.  1 million and sounds like they didn't even hesitate to pay.

[Midnight Rider]

Got this off of the Yahoo TC88 board.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=5732&Page=1

I wonder how far this will propogate. Is this the beginning of the end? Is the SERT next? Thundermax too? 

I wonder if the suit by the EPA is due to the PC itself, or the fact that Dynojet and many of it's distributors provide canned maps that violate the emissions standards.  Seems that there would be a fine line there somewhere...the device IS ABLE to modify, but we sold it to you (much like the SERT dislaimer) as a blank, and the purchaser is responsible for the alterations.  Now places like Fuelmoto, who ship the units downloaded with a map already loaded, would be in a world of chit, but if they ship them unprogrammed, I don't see it.  It's just a tool, and could just as easily be used to make a motor run even more efficiently, and exceed the EPA standards.

 

[Twolanerider]

I wonder if the suit by the EPA is due to the PC itself, or the fact that Dynojet and many of it's distributors provide canned maps that violate the emissions standards.  Seems that there would be a fine line there somewhere...the device IS ABLE to modify, but we sold it to you (much like the SERT dislaimer) as a blank, and the purchaser is responsible for the alterations.  Now places like Fuelmoto, who ship the units downloaded with a map already loaded, would be in a world of chit, but if they ship them unprogrammed, I don't see it.  It's just a tool, and could just as easily be used to make a motor run even more efficiently, and exceed the EPA standards.

 

Is this new legal action post the release the Power Commander EX platform.  It is specifically limited.  It doesn't allow much tuning range specifically to live within CARB rules (at least that's what Dynojet says).  The "old" Power Commander is now for "off road use only." 

Is that now finall a distinction without a difference?  Things keep getting tighter and tighter.  Glad I've got a few options.

[grc]

I wonder if the suit by the EPA is due to the PC itself, or the fact that Dynojet and many of it's distributors provide canned maps that violate the emissions standards.  Seems that there would be a fine line there somewhere...the device IS ABLE to modify, but we sold it to you (much like the SERT dislaimer) as a blank, and the purchaser is responsible for the alterations.  Now places like Fuelmoto, who ship the units downloaded with a map already loaded, would be in a world of chit, but if they ship them unprogrammed, I don't see it.  It's just a tool, and could just as easily be used to make a motor run even more efficiently, and exceed the EPA standards.
 

Good one Terry, I'm certain the EPA will fall for that. 

The "tool" is considered to be a defeat device, as in a device used to defeat the emission controls, and it has only been allowed to exist all these years because the Fed's didn't have the time, manpower, or inclination to do go after the aftermarket.  I believe a strict interpretation of the law and subsequent rules would show that selling such a tool, even without the programming, is a violation.  If the courts find otherwise and allow companies to get around the system by adding "off road only" labels, I would expect the CARB and then eventually the EPA folks to push for changes in the laws to close those loopholes.  In the automotive world, I don't have a big problem with that.  Modern automobiles outperform their unregulated ancestors quite handily while emitting exhaust that in some cases is cleaner than the intake air, all while providing excellent driveability.  Unfortunately, the folks at H-D haven't figured out how to accomplish those same things with their EPA engines.  I'm convinced they never will until they lose the easy (and profitable) crutch they've relied on for years, the one where they sell you intake, exhaust, and tuner to make the POS run decently.

Jerry

[nidan]

California is way anal about thier smog , for good reason .  It's only a matter of time before mandatory emissions testing including equipment. They have been real strict on cars for a long time.

One of the many reasons I moved.

[iski]

This entire issue sucks.  Other states are now looking at this & wondering if they can get ECM mod makers on the hook for MORE than a $mil.

The ability to modify a bike for LEGAL on road use in Cali has just be severely limited.  Appears to be heading to a black market, where folks figure out how to modify their ECMs & sell the fix below the legal radar or usual channels. 

[Talon]

Not sure, but it may be because they made a model just for California, if it was just for off road, closed course, like the makers say about the others, there would be no need for a special unit for California. So since this unit was intended for the street, it is changing EPA controlled emission standard. This may be the reason.

[vagabond6542]

Who said that the EPA had all the answers on emission standards anyway?

[Steve_G]

-Sounds like anybody who plans on getting a SERT or something similar better get their order in now.

[Talon]

Don't think they can do anything to the ones advertised as closed course/race units. It's the fact they they advertised the EX version as street approved in California.

[LRebel]

Who said that the EPA had all the answers on emission standards anyway?

They did 

[Keats]

There is just another reason not to live in California
carb/ sert not allowed
brush fires
landslides
earthquakes
San Fran
power outages
Hollywood
water (lack of)
LA  (real pretty)
Oakland
illegal immigrants

[LRebel]

There is just another reason not to live in California
carb/ sert not allowed
brush fires
landslides
earthquakes
San Fran
power outages
Hollywood
water (lack of)
LA  (real pretty)
Oakland
illegal immigrants

I could give you a few more reasons, but they would not be politically correct 

[sadunbar]

I could give you a few more reasons, but they would not be politically correct 

A few more years - global warming - ice bergs melt - oceans rise - California and CARB are 6 foot under...problem solved... 

(of course our west coast CVO friends are smart enough to move east when their feet start gettin wet)

Scott

[Ceej]

California strange land....not my problem...

All that open land out west, and you all want to pile
up in the same little ant hill in LA county....10 million
of you suckers running around like a bunch of little
ants in the same county

And then you wonder why you got smog, with 10 million little
cars runnng around going nowhere slowly in a 100 mile radius surrounded
by mountains to one side and an onshore breeze on the other....Duh...

And then you want to blame the rest of the world for
your smog

Geez, Spread out a little....Move about 8 million of them
little ants 200 miles east where they ain't no ants.

Problem solved

[Coyote.]

Yeah but we have the BEST riding around, bar none.  IF you don't believe me (and I grew up in the MW) let me know when you are coming out. This place will rock your socks!

[skreminegul07]

I was told that the new SERT come without the software in an effort to tighten up control.  Anyone else heard this?

[miker]

Yeah but we have the BEST riding around, bar none.  IF you don't believe me (and I grew up in the MW) let me know when you are coming out. This place will rock your socks!

True dat!  I spent alot of time riding out to Berryessa and up to Clear Lake.
Do they race speedway up in Aurburn?

Miker