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[HUBBARD]

I made the mistake of test riding an Indian.  Apples to apples (stock HD 103 vs. stock Indian 111) there was no comparison.  Better suspension, power plant, etc..   Smooth delivery of power...  Sure, compared to a CVO and it gets closer... But now we're talking 10-15k more in price point.   Looks are subjective, I get that... I happen to think that Victory is butt ugly...  But the Indian is gorgeous in my mind.  Again, all subjective.

Many are afraid to admit it, but the Indian was the best thing that ever happened to HD... They've gotten away with selling us cr@p for way too long.  I'm hoping my beloved motor company gets off their a$$.   And please don't ride the Indian... Because you'll either own one, or lie to yourself aboutw why you're continuing to spend money on such an inferior piece of technology.

Apples to apples?  Inferior piece of technology?  I've owned several Motorsickles since 1967, all Harley's, I might add.  I've read some of the complaints about Harleys here and there, but I have never experienced a single one of these problems.  Every single failure I've had with any of my Harleys, has been due to my abuse, or normal wear and tear.  Am I lucky, or realistic?  Both, obviously.  I'll ride home with who brung me.  So....to me, everything else is inferior.  Or, in creek-boy language, to put it bluntly.....junk.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD   

[JakeyL.]

I appreciate your feedback, Hubbard.   Like many here, I've been riding HD my entire life.. Sure I've had some British and Jap iron as a kid, but youth is often wasted on the youth. 

I'm on my seventh Harley.  I'm addicted to two things:  air cooled vtwins, and riding/ exploring this beautiful country.  I've been touring before they made "touring bike" a corporate catch phrase.  Got rid of the cage 4 years ago... So that puts me at 15-18k miles a year, depending on free time for big trips (I'm lucky that I work about 7 miles from home).  I started my career following my dreams as a certified motorcycle mechanic/technician.  I've worked on everything from metric to SAE, everything in between.  Now I'm down to every other weekend at local shop.... All HD.  I used to knock out several service jobs, oil changes, occasional cam work, and new set-ups per day.  Now I seem to handle recalls all day for the weekend warriors... It's d@mn depressing.

I know, who cares? We all got a back story, right?  My issues/gripes/b!tching is nothing we haven't heard before.  The vast majority of HD owners do not put a lot of miles on these bikes.  I'm not judging, believe me.  People have lives.  These are toys... I get it.  And free time is hard to come by.  But these owners skew the overall data on known mechanical issues and inherent flaws with HD's product.  The VAST majority of bikes I've worked on have less than three thousand miles at the end of their warranty.  Not a lot of riding time for issues to present themselves.

But here's the thing..  As part of the MOCO culture we accept that this is part of "deal".  We brag about how "HD's are a blank canvas to make your own".   We spend on average 3-5k AFTER we purchase the bike to "get it running the way it was meant to run".   What other industry would that be acceptable?  And if you upgrade to a performance that is to your liking (stage one, two, or three), you better start thinking real hard about upgrading other parts and inner workings of these motors... Bearings, lifters, cams, push rods, tensioners, clutches, valves... The list goes on and on... Ask me how I know.  Most people won't have to, however.   Because they only have to ride a couple thousand miles a year, if they're lucky.

I know it sounds like I'm bashing... I'm just frustrated .  I'm frustrated that HD is suddenly interested in upgrading (I hope) so many bikes that they haven't had to consider... For years.  Rushmore??  What a coincidence that they suddenly "listened" to the riders, the same year that the Indian was being released.  They finally beefed up forks that were known to be substandard for a couple decades (just one example)..  Give us a mail slot and an infotainment screen (that was rushed and not well thought out), slightly bigger cam (but not too big, because they still need you to upgrade to their parts catalogue), and call it a day.  Now as the profits slip, and forecasted sales are missing their targets, they are rolling out the 110 in bikes that haven't sold well...A motor that has so many inherent design flaws, it should be criminal. 

I still have hope.  I really do.  I want Hd to return to quality and get a way from cutting costs on suppliers and parts... If it takes Polaris to continue the push back to quality, then God bless them.  Because they certainly didn't give a sh!t before they came along.  Sorry about the rant... Ride safe.

[smkymtnboy]

I appreciate your feedback, Hubbard.   Like many here, I've been riding HD my entire life.. Sure I've had some British and Jap iron as a kid, but youth is often wasted on the youth. 

I'm on my seventh Harley.  I'm addicted to two things:  air cooled vtwins, and riding/ exploring this beautiful country.  I've been touring before they made "touring bike" a corporate catch phrase.  Got rid of the cage 4 years ago... So that puts me at 15-18k miles a year, depending on free time for big trips (I'm lucky that I work about 7 miles from home).  I started my career following my dreams as a certified motorcycle mechanic/technician.  I've worked on everything from metric to SAE, everything in between.  Now I'm down to every other weekend at local shop.... All HD.  I used to knock out several service jobs, oil changes, occasional cam work, and new set-ups per day.  Now I seem to handle recalls all day for the weekend warriors... It's d@mn depressing.

I know, who cares? We all got a back story, right?  My issues/gripes/b!tching is nothing we haven't heard before.  The vast majority of HD owners do not put a lot of miles on these bikes.  I'm not judging, believe me.  People have lives.  These are toys... I get it.  And free time is hard to come by.  But these owners skew the overall data on known mechanical issues and inherent flaws with HD's product.  The VAST majority of bikes I've worked on have less ththousand miles at the end of their warrantyan three .  Not a lot of riding time for issues to present themselves.

But here's the thing..  As part of the MOCO culture we accept that this is part of "deal".  We brag about how "HD's are a blank canvas to make your own".   We spend on average 3-5k AFTER we purchase the bike to "get it running the way it was meant to run".   What other industry would that be acceptable?  And if you upgrade to a performance that is to your liking (stage one, two, or three), you better start thinking real hard about upgrading other parts and inner workings of these motors... Bearings, lifters, cams, push rods, tensioners, clutches, valves... The list goes on and on... Ask me how I know.  Most people won't have to, however.   Because they only have to ride a couple thousand miles a year, if they're lucky.

I know it sounds like I'm bashing... I'm just frustrated .  I'm frustrated that HD is suddenly interested in upgrading (I hope) so many bikes that they haven't had to consider... For years.  Rushmore??  What a coincidence that they suddenly "listened" to the riders, the same year that the Indian was being released.  They finally beefed up forks that were known to be substandard for a couple decades (just one example)..  Give us a mail slot and an infotainment screen (that was rushed and not well thought out), slightly bigger cam (but not too big, because they still need you to upgrade to their parts catalogue), and call it a day.  Now as the profits slip, and forecasted sales are missing their targets, they are rolling out the 110 in bikes that haven't sold well...A motor that has so many inherent design flaws, it should be criminal. 

I still have hope.  I really do.  I want Hd to return to quality and get a way from cutting costs on suppliers and parts... If it takes Polaris to continue the push back to quality, then God bless them.  Because they certainly didn't give a sh!t before they came along.  Sorry about the rant... Ride safe.

i think you are dead on!!

[HUBBARD]

I appreciate your feedback, Hubbard.   Like many here, I've been riding HD my entire life.. Sure I've had some British and Jap iron as a kid, but youth is often wasted on the youth. 

I'm on my seventh Harley.  I'm addicted to two things:  air cooled vtwins, and riding/ exploring this beautiful country.  I've been touring before they made "touring bike" a corporate catch phrase.  Got rid of the cage 4 years ago... So that puts me at 15-18k miles a year, depending on free time for big trips (I'm lucky that I work about 7 miles from home).  I started my career following my dreams as a certified motorcycle mechanic/technician.  I've worked on everything from metric to SAE, everything in between.  Now I'm down to every other weekend at local shop.... All HD.  I used to knock out several service jobs, oil changes, occasional cam work, and new set-ups per day.  Now I seem to handle recalls all day for the weekend warriors... It's d@mn depressing.

I know, who cares? We all got a back story, right?  My issues/gripes/b!tching is nothing we haven't heard before.  The vast majority of HD owners do not put a lot of miles on these bikes.  I'm not judging, believe me.  People have lives.  These are toys... I get it.  And free time is hard to come by.  But these owners skew the overall data on known mechanical issues and inherent flaws with HD's product.  The VAST majority of bikes I've worked on have less than three thousand miles at the end of their warranty.  Not a lot of riding time for issues to present themselves.

But here's the thing..  As part of the MOCO culture we accept that this is part of "deal".  We brag about how "HD's are a blank canvas to make your own".   We spend on average 3-5k AFTER we purchase the bike to "get it running the way it was meant to run".   What other industry would that be acceptable?  And if you upgrade to a performance that is to your liking (stage one, two, or three), you better start thinking real hard about upgrading other parts and inner workings of these motors... Bearings, lifters, cams, push rods, tensioners, clutches, valves... The list goes on and on... Ask me how I know.  Most people won't have to, however.   Because they only have to ride a couple thousand miles a year, if they're lucky.

I know it sounds like I'm bashing... I'm just frustrated .  I'm frustrated that HD is suddenly interested in upgrading (I hope) so many bikes that they haven't had to consider... For years.  Rushmore??  What a coincidence that they suddenly "listened" to the riders, the same year that the Indian was being released.  They finally beefed up forks that were known to be substandard for a couple decades (just one example)..  Give us a mail slot and an infotainment screen (that was rushed and not well thought out), slightly bigger cam (but not too big, because they still need you to upgrade to their parts catalogue), and call it a day.  Now as the profits slip, and forecasted sales are missing their targets, they are rolling out the 110 in bikes that haven't sold well...A motor that has so many inherent design flaws, it should be criminal. 

I still have hope.  I really do.  I want Hd to return to quality and get a way from cutting costs on suppliers and parts... If it takes Polaris to continue the push back to quality, then God bless them.  Because they certainly didn't give a sh!t before they came along.  Sorry about the rant... Ride safe.

I understand, JakeyL.  In your position, you would experience situations that I wouldn't.  You see the big picture, where I'm only a little speck in it.  Again, I've been lucky as to warrantable failures.  I just haven't had any that I can think of, (knock on wood!), other than an electrical recall, and that wasn't a failure, it was a replacement.  The rest of my failures have been my fault, or the chit just wore out.  Appreciate your response.     Later--HUBBARD 

[smkymtnboy]

I understand, JakeyL.  In your position, you would experience situations that I wouldn't.  You see the big picture, where I'm only a little speck in it.  Again, I've been lucky as to warrantable failures.  I just haven't had any that I can think of, (knock on wood!), other than an electrical recall, and that wasn't a failure, it was a replacement.  The rest of my failures have been my fault, or the chit just wore out.  Appreciate your response.     Later--HUBBARD

  harleys are like kids hubbard! they embrass you ! take your money! waste your time! but, you still love em!

[Dr.D]

I saw this blue RM in person the other day and I kind of liked it. I ride both Indian and Harley and think each has its pluses and minuses. Esthetic appreciate is extremely subjective so there is no way to argue superior look of design. Harley does have good paint but the Indian is a very smooth and powerful machine.

To the critics of Indian I would caution against criticizing a bike that you have not ridden, unless you just want to call it fugly which you can decide with out a test ride. BTW I have five bikes in the garage, three Harleys and two Indians and I don't see and ugly ones.

My wife wants a pictures of the whole bunch on the garage and post it saying "Harley and Indian can live together in peace".

[smkymtnboy]

better do what she says! i think the majority would enjoy the side by side pics,anyway!! 

[Dr.D]

better do what she says! i think the majority would enjoy the side by side pics,anyway!! 

They are all very nice bikes and above average for their brand. Tow are CVOs so they are sharp and the SGD is a custom paint that rivals CVO and both Indians are painted also.