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[Hoist!]

So my friend, and I do mean friend, you are saying we're a bunch of old dinosaurs, who refuse to get with the new technology. I'll go with the new stuff, but I'll be kicking and screaming all the way. I think we're probably seeing the end of this engine design. Maybe their intention is to use this thigh cooker to make the water-cooled platform, which is probably in the works, more palatable for us to swallow. If that is the case, having the biggest and last air-cooled touring bike Harley built will be worth something extra.

I'm pretty sure my next Harley will be a big touring bike with a radiator and fan. Maybe even 130 / 130 numbers to boot. I'm OK with that. My kicking and screaming won't last long.

Some are and some aren't. Those that are won't be able to buy new ones when WC design is discontinued and will relish what they have forever. And the ones that will migrate to WC will have many choices out there then. These bikes will all be similar. Crankshafts with offset cylinders will be the norm. No more "potato potato"! When the HD experience is removed from their bikes, it won't matter what you ride. You'll be free to choose the best made WC bike there is available. If HD makes crap then, people won't think twice about an alternative. They may be an American Corp, but we all know they ain't American bikes! So we won't be so reliant on them anymore. If they want to get their shareholder returns then, they better get their act together! Just a damn shame they don't value us more now! What goes around, comes around! Hoist!

[Chief]

Some are and some aren't. Those that are won't be able to buy new ones when WC design is discontinued and will relish what they have forever. And the ones that will migrate to WC will have many choices out there then. These bikes will all be similar. Crankshafts with offset cylinders will be the norm. No more "potato potato"! When the HD experience is removed from their bikes, it won't matter what you ride. You'll be free to choose the best made WC bike there is available. If HD makes crap then, people won't think twice about an alternative. They may be an American Corp, but we all know they ain't American bikes! So we won't be so reliant on them anymore. If they want to get their shareholder returns then, they better get their act together! Just a damn shame they don't value us more now! What goes around, comes around! Hoist!

You know that potato potato kind of got mashed when idle speeds went to 1,000 rpm. Gone are those days of lore.  Maybe we can go to a museum to listen to a shovel or pan idle so we can remember the good 'ol days.

[Hoist!]

You know that potato potato kind of got mashed when idle speeds went to 1,000 rpm. Gone are those days of lore.  Maybe we can go to a museum to listen to a shovel or pan idle so we can remember the good 'ol days.

My carb'd Evo's are still fine examples of that too. They're not old enough to be put in the "engines of Yesteryear" class yet, but they were damn fine engines. And they soon will also be "Engines of Yesteryear"! And you can always convert these TC's to carb for that potato beat! Hoist!

[Rhino]

edited

Now you see why I'm making them use the correct size solid pushrods and HD cams. They'll do the work, use HD parts, and get me a new motor when they wreck it! Your choice is the lesser of two evils. Blow off the w.....ty and have everything done yourself or by someone you trust, use whatever parts you want, and take your chances with this 110" Wonder! Or let your dealer do everything; right wrong or indifferent; using all HD parts; bring it back as many times as necessary and deal with it.

Hoist,

I sense that you prefer rolling over to the wims of the dealers. This is not a good thing. You are saying multiple trips to the dealer for a fix is the way to go for warranty? How many trips can you make before you see the light? 3, 5, 10??   I do not accept this at all.  Because I did it right, and the dealer ultimately refused to listen to my complaints it means no warranty?  Would I or should I have found another dealer that actually cared?  That is not so easy. The only dealer that I know will take care of me is in N. Carolina, at Davis, and they are not just around the corner.  Other dealers here locally would require me break new ground in a relationship, and that becomes inconvenient also. So, I would take that one to battle in court if warranty was involved. .   But, no need to go there.  

I take issue with you on my diatribe, if you are trying to un validate (is that a word?) my recent experience.  It was not the parts mix, but rather the quality of the install etc, and the resultant answers and treatment from the dealer.  Parts did not matter, but having them address my concerns is. They blew me off. They labeled (us) as nothing but a bunch of RUB's when we ride around on our CVO's.  They interpret that to also mean we are stupid.  OK OK, it's not a generalization of dealers, but if it happens at your dealer, what next?

So, stay on point please, don't hijack my thread with warranty, and understand that I am only making a point of quality workmanship, not the particular modification or changes to other than Harley parts.

Rhino(stillupsetbutacceptingthefactsofdealerlife)

[Hoist!]

edited
Hoist,

I sense that you prefer rolling over to the wims of the dealers. This is not a good thing. You are saying multiple trips to the dealer for a fix is the way to go for warranty? How many trips can you make before you see the light? 3, 5, 10??   I do not accept this at all.  Because I did it right, and the dealer ultimately refused to listen to my complaints it means no warranty?  Would I or should I have found another dealer that actually cared?  That is not so easy. The only dealer that I know will take care of me is in N. Carolina, at Davis, and they are not just around the corner.  Other dealers here locally would require me break new ground in a relationship, and that becomes inconvenient also. So, I would take that one to battle in court if warranty was involved. .   But, no need to go there.  

I take issue with you on my diatribe, if you are trying to un validate (is that a word?) my recent experience.  It was not the parts mix, but rather the quality of the install etc, and the resultant answers and treatment from the dealer.  Parts did not matter, but having them address my concerns is. They blew me off. They labeled (us) as nothing but a bunch of RUB's when we ride around on our CVO's.  They interpret that to also mean we are stupid.  OK OK, it's not a generalization of dealers, but if it happens at your dealer, what next?

So, stay on point please, don't hijack my thread with warranty, and understand that I am only making a point of quality workmanship, not the particular modification or changes to other than Harley parts.

Rhino(stillupsetbutacceptingthefactsofdealerlife)

Man, you gotta get off that w.....ty thing there Ronnie. If you read my entire response, you would have actually seen that I agreed with you and that our choice is really a choice of the "lesser of two evils"! I'm in the same boat as you and will give them one chance or FTW! So my response was completely on point and I got over that w.....ty thing months ago. You should do the same man! Give me a break! Hoist!

[Rhino]

Man, you gotta get off that w.....ty thing there Ronnie. If you read my entire response, you would have actually seen that I agreed with you and that our choice is really a choice of the "lesser of two evils"! I'm in the same boat as you and will give them one chance or FTW! So my response was completely on point and I got over that w.....ty thing months ago. You should do the same man! Give me a break! Hoist!

But HOIST, you used the W**tY word 7 times and FTW 2 times in this thread alone.  If I was speed reading, which perhaps I was, those things jumped at me, and maybe that was the past. And thank you for agreeing with me.  Not tryin to bust chops, but, I read what I sees.  The whole point was quality work. It does not seem to exist except in a few small corners of the earth.  Why do they want to do bad work, then blow me off?  I will never quite understand what that is supposed to accomplish long term. These bad seeds they plant may not have repercussions that are visible on their bottom line for a year or more, then it is too late to get back the respect they lost, and have to come up with a new plan.  As GMR said, it's all about customer service etc, like Sam, and others, as others have quoted.  This is not an immpossible task. Can I shrug it off to a bad day? Nope, they then are always having bad days.  So what am I to do.  I have no clue, but I can be bribed........

Rhino

[Hoist!]

But HOIST, you used the W**tY word 7 times and FTW 2 times in this thread alone.  If I was speed reading, which perhaps I was, those things jumped at me, and maybe that was the past. And thank you for agreeing with me.  Not tryin to bust chops, but, I read what I sees.  The whole point was quality work. It does not seem to exist except in a few small corners of the earth.  Why do they want to do bad work, then blow me off?  I will never quite understand what that is supposed to accomplish long term. These bad seeds they plant may not have repercussions that are visible on their bottom line for a year or more, then it is too late to get back the respect they lost, and have to come up with a new plan.  As GMR said, it's all about customer service etc, like Sam, and others, as others have quoted.  This is not an immpossible task. Can I shrug it off to a bad day? Nope, they then are always having bad days.  So what am I to do.  I have no clue, but I can be bribed........

Rhino

Now we're on the page! That's the point and a good one. There is not much pride within our illustrious dealer network. They don't pay enough for that. They also train them to be production guys, not Technical Specialists! They don't seem to want customers like us. Guys who know their stuff and tell them what we want and expect. They want the guy with lots of bucks and no clue. This way they can tell him everything is fine or normal, like they tried with you. But you knew better. So now, you became the PIA instead of a savvy customer. I don't know why they don't get that all we want is what we pay them for, but we want it perfect! And perfect the first time, not the fifth! I go in and tell my SM what's going on, what's wrong with the 110's, what I want and what I expect. He's really nice and tries to accommodate me. But I think it's beyond their capabilities to accomplish it. They're trying, so I'll give it a shot. But like you, there's only so much incompetence I'll be able to take. If they can't do it, I or someone else I trust will!

BTW, great job doing it yourself! The more you know about these things yourself, the less dependent you become on them. Pretty soon, you'll just keep your relationshipand and be friendly, because you never know when you will need them for something. But your work will wind up with the people you trust with your bike to do the job right the first time, and go out of their way to take care of you!

Hoist!

[Talon]

Good job Rhino! I'm that way on any vehicle, I only go to the dealer if it's under warranty, or as a last resort, especially for parts!!! I'd push my bike two miles past a dealer to get to a good mechanic! I try to do most things myself, unless I know I can't handle it, or don't have the correct tools. I have two local shops that do good work when I need them. I like doing things myself, but know the nervous feeling when you go into unknown territory, that's when you get with your friends here on the site, lots of knowledge to tap here.

Pisses me off when the dealer tells you there's nothing wrong and you know there is! My friend just bought a new 07 Softail, he told the dealer that he thought the steering head needed to be checked, the front end was a little loose. They told him without looking that they didn't think there was a problem, but if they checked and the torque was set correctly, they would have to charge him. He told them to go ahead. They did find that it was off, but then charged him .2 hrs for test riding it!! He was going to argue it, but when he saw the bill, it was only a little over $19, they thought he had a service contract, so he got his 1000 service with SYN3 for under $20!!!

[ccr]

... He was going to argue it, but when he saw the bill, it was only a little over $19, they thought he had a service contract, so he got his 1000 service with SYN3 for under $20!!!

Ya know, I hate to rip anyone off, and I hate to be ripped off, but in this case, justice seems to have been served.   

 

[Rhino]

Just an update,  I finally got around to opening the front rocker cover, box etc, taking it all apart to fix the front clearancing problems.  Sure enough, I found enough material left to be hitting the valve springs. No surprise.  They took some material off, and then I took off some more.  Needless to say, I did not go for the .060 clearance, I saw where it was hitting and made it good to make sure that it would not hit anymore.  So, now I have a very quiet and strong motor.  I have a couple of pictures, and I will post them after I edit it a bit.

If the specifications ask for clearance, I am surprised that it was not cheked after the cam install, and pushrods.  For example, after the work is done, after the clearancing is done, and the assembly process begins, you do everything, except put the rocker cover back on.   From that point, it is an easy affair to move the springs up and down by rotating the rear wheel on the bike.  (hey this is summary, some things are a given on this episode)  If you follow, all you do is take a tie wrap, and stick it in the space between the rocker box and the valve spring. The valve spring needs to move without pincing the tie wrap. If it does, you need to dissasemble again, and clearance it some more.    In my opinion, the dealer did clearancing based on who knows what, but it was wrong.  I removed the material in the two places it was bangin the spring and it worked.  The two areas are going to be posted in the picture. Reference that the rocker box clearance is the area araound where the bolts go through, on the left side of the bike. The spring and valves are closest to that side, you will kmow instantly what I am talking abut when you open it up. 

RHino

[Chief]

One thing to note here is that the clearancing we're talking about is independent of cam choice. We're trying to fix a clearance problem when the valve is closed and the cam is not in the picture. It's not the normal clearancing that needs to be checked when you go to a high-lift cam.