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[TimBone]

No check light, does headlight and other electrical functions stay on? Might check the CPS, this could cause this. Could be a short or loose wire, but I wouldn't think it would come back everytime to switch the ignition on and off if it were wiring.

Craig

Craig,
No eng light when it happens.  What is the CPS?  Will ask about the other elec items but did
say the eng oil light came on just as if he was starting the bike up.
Will have him look at the wiring tonight and see what he can see with IGN switch and battery and stuff
like that.
Thanks,
Tim

[grandpadoc]

On my bike it was the temperature sensor that caused the engine to shut down without warning. After the fourth time on a dangerous road it wasn't worth dying for so I took it in to the dealer and left it for several weeks until they got it diagnosed. They replaced the brain and all the sensors cause it wouldn't leave a code even while riding it with the diagnostic tester plugged in (they said). There should have been a recall but Harley quietly replaced them on a need basis. 

[TimBone]

On my bike it was the temperature sensor that caused the engine to shut down without warning. After the fourth time on a dangerous road it wasn't worth dying for so I took it in to the dealer and left it for several weeks until they got it diagnosed. They replaced the brain and all the sensors cause it wouldn't leave a code even while riding it with the diagnostic tester plugged in (they said). There should have been a recall but Harley quietly replaced them on a need basis. 

Thanks for the scoop on the temp sensor.

[Talon]

Craig,
No eng light when it happens.  What is the CPS?  Will ask about the other elec items but did
say the eng oil light came on just as if he was starting the bike up.
Will have him look at the wiring tonight and see what he can see with IGN switch and battery and stuff
like that.
Thanks,
Tim

Crank position sensor, if it is malfunctioning the ECU will think the motor isn't turning and shut off spark and fuel. It can totally die or be intermittent, throws no code because the ECU just thinks the motor is off. Like I said, it could be wiring, but wouldn't reset by cycling the ignition.

Craig

[CVOMOE!!]

The suggestion about the circuit breaker is sound.  They would overheat and the bike would die.  It would then start right back up again.  This was a problem awhile back and happened to me several times. 

Cheers, Moe

[TimBone]

We had his bike apart last night and looks like original Circuit Breaker in place and the Ign Switch
on tank console had green corrosion on it.

Thinking he should replace both and do the in-line fuse vice the CB.
Can't be too expensive for an Ign Switch.
Seems easy enough to do the in-line fuse.

[Twolanerider]

A little green as surface corrosion on either of those parts isn't uncommon actually.  May or may not be indicative of a problem depending on how bad it is and whether it's only on the surface of course.  Also not sure a corrosion/contact issue would be my first suspect for the types of instantaneous shut downs you're describing.

Obviously can't hurt to check them out or even replace them though.  If you put a maxi fuse connector in place of the circuit breaker make sure you use a good terminal end on the mating connection.  Some are much better than others and you want a good connection there.

The maxi fuse in line fuse holder should not be some cheap parts counter version with only 16 or 18 gauge wire on it either.  If a parts store doesn't have splicing terminals that satisfy you hit a good car audio shop.  I've put a maxi fuse connector in to replace a circuit breaker before.  But it was out of necessity.  If given the opportunity I'd likely just replace with a good 40 amp circuit breaker.  Cheap at most parts stores.

The ignition switch will pretty commonly have a tint of that corrosion on the spades.  You're chasing a tough problem so an abundance of caution might mean swapping parts just to be sure.  Might be worth putting an ohm meter across the switch terminals and jiggling the hell out of things before replacing it though.  Good luck.

[grc]

If I may expand a little on Twolane's post, I'd suggest first doing the circuit breaker, either by replacing it with another circuit breaker or doing the Maxi-fuse conversion if you prefer.  This recommendation is based on the reported failure mode and the history of the breakers from that period.  I would defer the ignition switch replacement until I determined the circuit breaker change didn't fix the problem.

This recommendation is based on my normal desire to understand exactly what the problem was.  Using the shotgun approach of changing several components at one time will not tell you what the real problem was, and if it comes back a year from now you will be right back where you started, not knowing which component is causing the problem.


JMHO  -  Jerry

[TimBone]

A little green as surface corrosion on either of those parts isn't uncommon actually.  May or may not be indicative of a problem depending on how bad it is and whether it's only on the surface of course.  Also not sure a corrosion/contact issue would be my first suspect for the types of instantaneous shut downs you're describing.

Obviously can't hurt to check them out or even replace them though.  If you put a maxi fuse connector in place of the circuit breaker make sure you use a good terminal end on the mating connection.  Some are much better than others and you want a good connection there.

The maxi fuse in line fuse holder should not be some cheap parts counter version with only 16 or 18 gauge wire on it either.  If a parts store doesn't have splicing terminals that satisfy you hit a good car audio shop.  I've put a maxi fuse connector in to replace a circuit breaker before.  But it was out of necessity.  If given the opportunity I'd likely just replace with a good 40 amp circuit breaker.  Cheap at most parts stores.

The ignition switch will pretty commonly have a tint of that corrosion on the spades.  You're chasing a tough problem so an abundance of caution might mean swapping parts just to be sure.  Might be worth putting an ohm meter across the switch terminals and jiggling the hell out of things before replacing it though.  Good luck.

TwoLane,
Thanks for the good scoop right there.  I will suggest cleaning up the IGN switch real good along with all other connections and then either replace the existing Cir Brkr or going with the MAXI conversion.
Should be easy enough and back on the road in no time.

[TimBone]

If I may expand a little on Twolane's post, I'd suggest first doing the circuit breaker, either by replacing it with another circuit breaker or doing the Maxi-fuse conversion if you prefer.  This recommendation is based on the reported failure mode and the history of the breakers from that period.  I would defer the ignition switch replacement until I determined the circuit breaker change didn't fix the problem.

This recommendation is based on my normal desire to understand exactly what the problem was.  Using the shotgun approach of changing several components at one time will not tell you what the real problem was, and if it comes back a year from now you will be right back where you started, not knowing which component is causing the problem.

JMHO  -  Jerry

Thanks Jerry,
I think you are very right with just replacing one part at a time to eliminate the problem.  And will suggest a good cleaning and tightening of all other electrical connections and of course the battery too.
Thanks for the info.

[Twolanerider]

TwoLane,
Thanks for the good scoop right there.  I will suggest cleaning up the IGN switch real good along with all other connections and then either replace the existing Cir Brkr or going with the MAXI conversion.
Should be easy enough and back on the road in no time.

Cleaning connections is never a bad thing.  I didn't mean to suggest, however, that cleaning a light coat of green surface corrosion off the spades of the ignition switch is a likely fix.  In fact it's probably not.  Can never hurt though.  More important on the ignition switch will be to pull/tug/wiggle it rather aggressively, from the top and from the harness connection point, to see if the problem shows up.

One other thing to at least consider.  If the engine is shutting down but no other electrics are turning off don't forget to check the kill switch up on the handlebar.

[TimBone]

Well Gentlemen,
He replaced the 40A CB with one from an auto parts store.

Then we saddled up and rode from eastern NC to Tampa for
Thanksgiving over a two day period.(Stopped in Savannah for
RON).  Then rode straight back home on Sunday the entire
way and the bike did just fine.

Couple times we just fueled up and hopped back on and kept
riding and we did get caught in some heavy traffic spots that
really heated up the bikes and his bike never did shut off.
I sure would have thought it might have turned off in that amount
of riding.

Will end for now and Thank You for all the great advice and information
on this thread!

[Twolanerider]

Well Gentlemen,
He replaced the 40A CB with one from an auto parts store.

That's good news Tim.  I'm a firm believer in simplest/cheapest options first when you're forced to troubleshoot.  I used to carry one of those circuit breakers among my on-bike spares when traveling.  Almost too cheap not to have around just in case.

[spydglide]

That's good news Tim.  I'm a firm believer in simplest/cheapest options first when you're forced to troubleshoot.  I used to carry one of those circuit breakers among my on-bike spares when traveling.  Almost too cheap not to have around just in case.

And you don't any more?   

[Twolanerider]

And you don't any more?   

Actually, yes.  In the SERG.  Though (and I'm sure the travel Gods will smite me for this later) I was only thinking of the SEEG when I wrote that earlier.  So that none of them will be offended and show their tender mercies on the side of the road in the middle of a stormy night I'll not neglect the almost-bike either.  Even though it started life as an 02 it'll be put back together with 04-05 vintage harness.  So it won't need a circuit breaker either.