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Author Topic: 1500 miles and problems already!  (Read 2976 times)

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psycho

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1500 miles and problems already!
« on: May 12, 2004, 11:11:01 PM »

I drive 1.5 hours to western NH in order to give my business to the dealer I bought my bike MSRP from in order to punish the local dealer 10 minutes from my home who manipulates the sales price frequently and sells well above MSRP. Well, I had the bike in for 1K service two weeks ago. The other night when I had bike out I noticed some dark spotting all over my luggage rack bag--assumed it was condensation as it was very muggy and actually started to sprinkle as I pulled in my driveway. When I took the bike out last night, I noticed an oil spot from underneath the bike when I rolled it back. No new spot today, took it out for 1 hour, went to gas up, and noticed oil all over the right side of the bike. I have the battery tender lead hanging out from under the seat on right side and it had a large drop of oil on it (this is what got my attention). Placed carboard under bike tonight--nothing yet. Checked under bike with flashlight can't see any wet areas--only oil sprinkled all over right side of bike (oil tank covered, pipes, etc).  Did not have this prior to service--is this what I drive 1.5 hours for? Is this the beginning of my Harley experience.  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Checked oil level two hours after running--at full. Can't seem to find where you check trans level. I'll tell you gentlemen, I have very little patience for this considering the money I layed out. I'll be on a Mean Streak in no time if this bike turns out to be a problem.
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JCZ

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2004, 11:41:06 PM »

Breath Psycho......slow.....deep......breath.

Just a couple suggestions.....first, look up at your oil filter and see if you can see any oil at all.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2004, 11:42:32 PM by JCZ »
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WFP

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2004, 07:43:17 AM »

Psycho,

You didn't indicate where the spot was in relation to the bike.  One thing I noticed on my Deuce is that the side pieces of the chin spoiler can collect oil from an oil change.  If the dealer didn't remove them when he changed the filter and he didn't use anything to catch the oil as he removed the filter oil will collect in there.  I learned this the hard way when I changed my milkshake oil last month.  You might want to remove it and give it an inspection.

However this doesn't explain how spots could get on the bag on your rack.

/Bill

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Finally have ridden a Harley in all 50 US States!

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naitram

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2004, 08:38:21 AM »

when oil hits  wind while you're riding you'd be surprised where it can end up
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psycho

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2004, 08:59:33 AM »

I went back out into the garage last night with a flashlight. Again, no wetness under bike other than road grime. Left side bike completely clean. From the air filter back on right side oil began--found mucho oil on under side of air cleaner--almost dripping. Called dealer this AM, suggested that they might have overfilled oil thereby excessive blowby? Oil level two hours after ride was full. Will check cold today.
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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2004, 09:27:37 AM »

I got the following from a friend:


http://www.directparts.com/static/articles/superpump.htm
                                                                                                               
The TC-88 engine uses a dry-sump lubrication system. To perform properly, the dry sump system requires a        
properly sized, BALANCED SYSTEM including a scavenge pump that is capable of removing all residual oil from the
crankcase at all engine speeds and conditions. Failure of the scavenge pump to perform to these requirements    
causes "WET SUMPING". Instead of returning to the oil tank, the oil builds-up in the crankcase and cam chest    
causing excessive friction/power loss and oil aeration. This can result in the motorcycles oil being forced out
the breather, air cleaner contamination, oil leaks, loss of oil supply, lifter clatter, component wear and      
potential engine failure. TC-88 engines have piston cooling jets that are designed to squirt oil on            
the under side of the pistons. These jets have a check valve that opens at approximately 25-28 PSI oil          
pressure. Without adequate pressure pump volume this pressure regulated flow to the jets can short circuit      
critical oil flow from the lifters and top end. Twin Cam valve springs need oil for cooling. Inadequate oil    
flow can cause excessive valve spring temperature causing loss of spring tension resulting in noisy valve      
train, valve float/valve train separation and potential motorcycle engine failure. Inadequate oil supply to the
rocker boxes can cause excessive rocker arm bushing wear and component failure. The Twin Cam crankshaft has    
machined "paddles" on the periphery of the left flywheel to provide a trigger for the crank position sensor    
(CPS). These paddles can whip up unscavenged oil in the crankcase, turning the oil into aerated frothing        
"peanut butter" that pushes its way up into the rocker boxes
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Finally have ridden a Harley in all 50 US States!

Canadian Provinces NOT travelled in or through by Motorcycle (YET!!!):

psycho

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2004, 11:50:48 AM »

By the time I got to the edge of my driveway last night, I did get distracted by what I thought was lifter tapping noise at idle! I'm telling ya, I don't have a good feeling about this--Victory Kingpin!  
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PCC

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2004, 12:29:52 PM »

Psycho:

Try this. it might be messy, but at least you'll track things down. Disconnect the breather hoses from the air cleaner and the heads...then go ride the bike and see if you get a lot of oil from the breather passages. Ride the bike uphill at sustained higher speeds for at least 3 or 4 miles. If you're getting alot of oil from the breathers any of a number of things...some already mentioned could be the cause.The "wet sumping" condition mentioned above comes from improperly installed or wrong O-rings in the oil pump area, misalignment of the oil pump, or a blocked oil return line. All of these are fixable and really not too serious. We just need to make sure you've got all the info before you go to your dealer. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
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psycho

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2004, 02:47:47 PM »

Thanks for the responses guys. This goes directly to why I decided to buy the CVO--I wanted a pretty bike, I didn't want it to become a project, I didn't want to do anything except "plug in and play." As far as maintenance is concerned-same thing. All I want to be thinking about is whether there are waves or not to surf on--not backtracking what the HD service guy did to mess things up. It was just an oil change for crying out loud! The only thing I dislike more than laziness is incompetence. You can be stupid--that's ok. I pay the $$ to buy quality and to have service done corectly -- by experts. I don't want to become the expert on what  I pay you to be. The expectation is that you know what the hell you are doing.  

The kitchen tile guy--that's another one--had to have him completely rip up tile floor due to uneven tiles, crooked installation, uncentered designs, etc.  Guy looks at me---"I didn't know". I had to completely design the floor for him, lay the tiles out on the floor, and tell him "Do it this way". I didn't want to be bothered by tile.

The Ford serviceman--that's another one--within the last month had AAA start me three times with dead battery (24K). The headlights were not turning off on auto. So last time got jumped, headed to dealer with the kids to have problem fixed. Had rear tire blowout on highway on the way--the brand new tire anoher service station installed blew out when they found my original tire was out of round. AAA back again (2 hours later). Get to Ford, they install yet another new tire, and check battery and all "Everything checks out sir--nothing we can do" Yeah but...." I say and I can see it goes in one ear and out the other.

Need I go on.

And we complain because companies outsource! We complain when companies go overseas! Go to any factory that hires people from other countries and ask them who works the hardest, the longest, and is invested in the quality of their work. The answer might surprise you.

OK I'm done-----for now that is.

Honda VTX.
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skull

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2004, 03:36:27 PM »

Psycho, I understand your frustration and in my book, you are correct, you go into something knowing that you paid top dollar for a quality product with a great name, then you give them additional business by getting the service done at their location.  The last thing you want to do is play CSI Motorcycle Repair Man.  

"Service" in today's world does not have a clear decisive definition.  I can't tell you the last time I left a place that I just shelled out hard earned greenbacks and said...  WOW, that was great service and I can't wait to go back (except for a few strip bars in Atlanta, but that is another story).  

Is there anything more irritating than standing at a check out register trying to give them money and you have to be witness to the employees arguing about who will be going on break next, or a few employees complaining about another, right in front of you. [smiley=furious.gif]

This country has taken the term "good help is hard to find these days" to a new level.

Skull
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naitram

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2004, 03:40:21 PM »

quality and service issues are not unique to H-D, as you have noted they happen in every aspect of our lives.

i bought my wife her first bike last year, and after 1 tank of gas i called the dealer and complained about what i percieved to be an issue with one of the carberators, the respones i got over the phone was that the bike wasnt broken in yet and that was why it was stalling easily, i brought the bike to the dealer the owner rode the bike across the parking lot stalled it and said they would fix it. turned out to be a clogged jet in one of the carbs.

we just bought her a new car about 6 weeks ago on the night we picked it up i noticed one of the tires had no valve stem cap on it. the salesmen ignored my complaint, but when my wife took it back the following day to get the sticker the service manager was horrifed to hear that the salesman wouldnt fix the problem.

i hate to say it but bad quality and service is part of socitey today. i know there are many good mechanics out there but some times i think they are greatly out numbered
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naitram

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2004, 03:58:52 PM »

hows this for lousy service?

Woman lives without portion of skull for nearly four months because of insurance snag
By Alexandria Sage, Associated Press, 5/13/2004 14:15

MIDVALE, Utah (AP) After a lot of red tape, Briana Lane has her skull back in one piece.

The 22-year-old woman was injured in an auto accident in January, and doctors temporarily removed nearly half her skull to save her life.

But for nearly four months afterward, the piece of bone lay in a hospital freezer across town and Lane had to wear a plastic street hockey helmet because of a standoff with Medicaid and the hospital over who would cover the surgery to make her whole again.

The surgery finally came through after an excruciating wait, during which she suffered extreme pain just bending down and would wake up in the morning to find that her brain had shifted to one side during the night.

''When you think of weird things happening to people you don't think of that,'' Lane said. ''It's like taking out someone's heart you need that!''

Sonya Schwartz, a health policy analyst for Families USA, a consumer health care group, said insurance horror stories happen every day. But ''this particular story is outlandish.''

On Jan. 10, Lane's car rolled over on an icy canyon road above Salt Lake City. Lane, who was not wearing a seat belt, was thrown through the windshield. (She was later charged with driving under the influence and not having a driver's license.)

Doctors at the University of Utah Health Sciences Center in Salt Lake City removed the left side of her skull to treat bleeding on her brain. Lane's doctor originally scheduled the replacement surgery for mid-March, a month after her release from the hospital, said her mother, Margaret McKinney, a nurse who works in another division of the medical center.

But the operation was canceled the night before because the hospital was waiting to see whether Medicaid would cover it a process that can take at least 90 days.

Lane, a waitress with no insurance, was sent home from the hospital with a big dent in her head where the bone had been removed but the scalp had been sewn back into place. She stayed at home, able to walk around but not go to work, and had to wear the helmet during the day.

During the wait for a decision from Medicaid, the hospital could have declared an emergency, moved ahead with the surgery, and figured out afterward who would pay the hospital, Medicaid, or the patient. But the hospital did not do so.

Lane's mother said that she argued with the hospital: ''We just want what you've taken away. Can you just give us back the skull and we'll go on with our lives?''

After months of delay, Lane contacted a local TV station, a move she believes hastened the surgery. ''All of a sudden top of the list!'' she said. The operation took place April 30.

Exactly what broke the impasse is unclear.

The operation took place after Lane's mother's insurance decided to cover the surgery, as well as her nearly $200,000 in medical bills.

But hospital spokeswoman Anne Brillinger, while refusing to comment on certain specifics of Lane's case because of federal privacy rules, said the medical center decided to go forward with the surgery before it learned the insurance would pay.

Utah's Medicaid program has yet to decide whether Lane qualifies.

Robert Knudson, director of eligibility services at the Utah Health Department, which oversees Medicaid, said the agency has not yet seen enough evidence to decide whether her injuries entitle her to benefits under the law.

He would not comment on whether her four-month wait was unreasonable. But he said the decision over how fast Lane should have gotten treatment was up to the doctors, not Medicaid. ''We only pay the bills,'' he said.

A neurosurgeon at Indianapolis' St. Vincent Hospital, Ronald Young, said such surgery would not be considered an emergency, but is typically performed within three to four weeks the swelling has to go down first because the risks to the patient are high.

''There's no reason not to replace that as soon as you can,'' Young said. ''I don't like to have people who are walking not have their skull.''

He added: ''For a person who is walking, who is ambulatory, to not have their skull is a problem because you get a lot of brain shift. A simple fall, hitting her head or something could be horrendous.''

Today, Lane's close-cropped hair barely covers the long curved scar on her scalp. The blackouts and dizziness are happening less often, and simple tasks are no longer excruciatingly painful.

But she said the experience has left her a little more cynical about the health care system.

''Just because they don't have money doesn't mean they should be treated differently from anyone else,'' she said. ''I'm a good person. I just happen to be not as rich as some of them.''

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:cool26: naitram...


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JCZ

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2004, 05:33:54 PM »

Thank you Psycho.....I've been waiting a long time for a thread like this.

Ford! [smiley=furious.gif]  I'll never buy another piece of their crap.  I spend $42,000 on a new 02 Harley F-150 that has the same power train as the Ford Lightning.  Driving down the freeway, coming back from Red Bluff, 10:00 p.m. with cruise control on, doing about 70 or 75........BLAM.......BLAP....BLAP...BLAP...BLAP.  Forty miles from the nearest small, small town, late at night....yada....yada....yada.  

Fast forward to after much research on the internet on my part (Ford sure wasn't going to admit any fault) that it's a real common problem for the Ford 5.4 motors (both Supercharged and non-SC) as well as the V-10 motors built prior to mid production year in 03 that the spark plug hole only has four threads.  A plug shot out the hole.  I've learned that some guys have actually dented their hoods by the plug being launched.

Ford corrected the problem in 2002 but contiued to use all the heads that they had sitting in stock, till mid 2003.

They offered to replace the head, providing that I pay a $500 deductable (I was 1,500 miles past the warranty).  However, they would only replace one head.  So I now have one head with four threads and one head with eight threads.

I'll never buy another Ford product.  Dodge has a much longer warranty and I'll seriously take that into consideration on my next truck, even if it doesn't say Harley Davidson on it.


Back to your situation Psycho, you might call the service manager at your dealership and make an appointment to go in and meet with him.  Basically, tell him what you've posted above, that your bike is not an experment and you do not want an inexperienced tech working on it.  That when you bring your bike in, you want to leave their feeling like it's in the best hands possible.  I told my svc. mgr. that I don't care about anybody else's bike or unrelated issues.....there's only one thing here that I care about and that is my motorcycle and that I want to feel like you feel the same way, about my bike!

That conversation was years back and I get very well taken care of now.  Another thing I do.....I drop a $20 every time I take it in.  Sometimes it's on the Svc. Mgr. sometimes the svc. writer and sometimes the tech. or the detail guy.  They all know me and they all take care of me.  I appreciate them and they appreciate me.  That's just how it works.....if you want it to work well.
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Never trade the thrills of living for the security of existence.  Remember...it's the journey, not the destination!

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Reno, NV (04), Reno, NV (05),  Cripple Creek, CO (06)  Hood River, OR (09), Lake Tahoe, CA (11) Carmel, CA (14), Ouray CO (15) Fortuna, Ca. (16)

darkvisorman

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Re: 1500 miles and problems already!
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2004, 01:40:02 PM »

It had the same problem, just after an the first oil service, could not give out where is was coming from when i got home from the garage there was droplets of oil on the bottom of the oil cooler which left some drips on my drive I immediately cleaned it all off and put some white paper underneath to see how much was coming out. In the morning there were no drips, I then took her out for a short ride and stopped and inspected and found some more oil in the same place.
I then went home and took the chrome covers off the oil cooler and had a good look to see what was there, I could not find a leak but just cleaned all the excess oil up and put all back together then started her up to see if it still leaked...... It never leaked I can only put it down to either overfilling or not cleaning up properly after the oil and filter service by the mechanic.

Yours might be the same.

DVM
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