Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Midnight Rider]

Don't want to get into a discussion about this, but there is no such thing as any oil being "too slick".  It's simply not true.  


I would agree with you on this point for the most part except I have seen when a syn oil was "too slick" for the application.  When a customer of mine decided to use syn oil instead of dino oil in his 4 cylinder opposed air cooled aircraft engine, the syn oil proved to be too slick for the slip clutch on the starter and would not allow the clutch to grab the starter shaft and would just spin, never starting the engine.  When he drained it and went back to dino oil the starter clutch worked just fine.  Go figure. 

I have no idea how that starter system works, but it sounds like a different application than the way most starters work.  But, in engines, transmissions, and even wet clutches (like on a HD and thousands of other bikes out there), a motorcycle specific synthetic oil will outperform any dino oil with regards to high temp performance and longevity.  Since a HD clutch/primary is a seperate "hole" to put oil in, regular Automatic Transmission Fluid is fine, for that matter.  There are a lot of "old wive's tales" out there about synthetic oil being "too slick", allowing bearings to "skate", etc.  All that is total BS.

[Midnight Rider]

So, all of you have syn in your machines ?

I would bet my next Pension check that if you did a survey of people on this site, at least 80% of them use synthetic oil in the engine.

I change mine every 5,000 miles (crankcase), but only because I have to in order to comply with the HD warranty.  And I do it myself.  The oil would last much longer than that.  For those who have to store their bikes for a few months in cold weather, it is certainly a good idea to change the oil just prior to storage, but it's not because the oil is "worn out", but to get the contaminants out of the crankcase.  All CVO bikes come from the factory with Synthetic oil in every hole.

[petewerner]

Don't want to get into a discussion about this, but there is no such thing as any oil being "too slick".  It's simply not true. 


I would agree with you on this point for the most part except I have seen when a syn oil was "too slick" for the application.  When a customer of mine decided to use syn oil instead of dino oil in his 4 cylinder opposed air cooled aircraft engine, the syn oil proved to be too slick for the slip clutch on the starter and would not allow the clutch to grab the starter shaft and would just spin, never starting the engine.  When he drained it and went back to dino oil the starter clutch worked just fine.  Go figure. 

I found this to be true also, but it has nothing to do with being too slick for bearings, bur rather a clutch system in my wife's Can Am Spyder and this machine uses a common oil tank for all functions and with friction materials, loss of some friction meant that it was slipping in the Auto transmission... Had to drain the tank, hoses, coolers, and flush tranny with solvents and put factory spected oil back in and no more slipping... and a lesson learned.

[Midnight Rider]

I found this to be true also, but it has nothing to do with being too slick for bearings, bur rather a clutch system in my wife's Can Am Spyder and this machine uses a common oil tank for all functions and with friction materials, loss of some friction meant that it was slipping in the Auto transmission... Had to drain the tank, hoses, coolers, and flush tranny with solvents and put factory spected oil back in and no more slipping... and a lesson learned.

Pete...just curious for it's own sake, but what kind of oil is spec'd for the Can Am wet clutch?  I know that automobile synthetic oil is a lot different than that for motorcycles, for the very reason you are talking about...they don't work well in wet clutch applications.

[petewerner]

With this thing, it also cools with oil as the liquid in the cooling system, also the same common reservoir as trans. and engine lube. The oil is of BRP spec. used in all Rotax engines, snowmobils, offroad 2 and 4 wheel drive 1 , 2 , and 4 person machines as well as the Can Am line. BRP is into some other stuff as well and it might be used there as well. They do alot of oil cooled/ auto trans. stuff.
It is called XPS 4 Stroke Temps- Full Synthetic All Climate Grade... No weights or any grades or and info other than above...

[ultrafxr]

I would bet my next Pension check that if you did a survey of people on this site, at least 80% of them use synthetic oil in the engine.

I change mine every 5,000 miles (crankcase), but only because I have to in order to comply with the HD warranty.  And I do it myself.  The oil would last much longer than that.  For those who have to store their bikes for a few months in cold weather, it is certainly a good idea to change the oil just prior to storage, but it's not because the oil is "worn out", but to get the contaminants out of the crankcase.  All CVO bikes come from the factory with Synthetic oil in every hole.

I think so too Terry.  But like you I change mine at or around 5k 'just in case' I ever have to prove anything to mother Harley or their ESP.  But regardless, of all the troubles I've had with Harley engines (and they are many) none have ever been due to lack of lubrication.  Just sayin'.

[televizor]

WHAT CAN I SAY... I STIL HAVE A LOOOOT TO LEARN ! SOMETIMES ROMANIAN WINTERS ARE USEFUL .
  THANK YOU.
  AND YES I WILL GO WITH SYN IN MY CRANKCASE ALSO. AMSOIL 20-50 AND CHANGE IT BEFORE STORAGE AND NOT AFTER.

[Midnight Rider]

WHAT CAN I SAY... I STIL HAVE A LOOOOT TO LEARN ! SOMETIMES ROMANIAN WINTERS ARE USEFUL .
  THANK YOU.
  AND YES I WILL GO WITH SYN IN MY CRANKCASE ALSO. AMSOIL 20-50 AND CHANGE IT BEFORE STORAGE AND NOT AFTER.

You will have to post some photos of your country when you take rides this Spring/Summer.  I have no idea what Romania even looks like!

Glad you found the CVOharley website...we all learn something by being here, even if it's just what beer is good...

[televizor]

TO BE HONEST, SOMETIMES I DONT KNOW HOW ROMANIA LOOKS LIKE BUT I KNOW THAT ROMANIAN GIRLS LOKS GOOOOOOD.     AM I BANNED?

    I WILL DEF POST SOME PICTURES.

[Twolanerider]

TO BE HONEST, SOMETIMES I DONT KNOW HOW ROMANIA LOOKS LIKE BUT I KNOW THAT ROMANIAN GIRLS LOKS GOOOOOOD.     AM I BANNED?

    I WILL DEF POST SOME PICTURES.

I'm always envious of the road that the boys from Top Gear found.  Would love to have that close enough to get to play on when the mood hit me.  Did a research trip several years ago that had me in and around Timisoara for a bit.  After that trip always wanted to see more.  But have never had the chance again.  Someday .

[televizor]

THAT ROAD IT S TRANSARASAN AND YES !  IT S ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL( AND DANGEROUS IN THE SAME TIME), ROADS IN THE WORLD.  EVERYTHING IS WILD THERE.  AND TIMISOARA  IS A NICE PLACE TO BE.   IF YOU LL BE HERE AGAIN OR YOU WANT TO   JUST BUZZ ME.   . ROMANIA IS GOOOD.

[2k]

I think Harley did not endorse using synthetic oil until it was marketed with their name on the label.  Imagine that.  What I still cannot figure out is that Mercedes Benz recommends using synthetic oil (Mobile 1) and change it every year or 100,000 miles which ever comes first.  I have used synthetic in my bikes the last 25 years and only change it in the fall before storage and ride 20,000 to 25<000 miles each year.  My last bike had motor work done (pumped up an 88 motor) at 85,000 miles and showed normal wear according to my Indy.  I continue to change my oil every year and just ride it in between.  Ride Safe, David

With Harley, it always bout the money. I have been using Syn since the 80's. Damn the MoCo, full speed ahead. Its an internal combustion engine, right? Syn oil doesn't wear out....it gets dirty. I go at least 10K between changes. I was in the Navy, 90% of the time if the Chief says it you can take it to the bank. But then, thats why they call it opinions!!!!

[dlaws01]

I have no idea how that starter system works, but it sounds like a different application than the way most starters work.  But, in engines, transmissions, and even wet clutches (like on a HD and thousands of other bikes out there), a motorcycle specific synthetic oil will outperform any dino oil with regards to high temp performance and longevity.  Since a HD clutch/primary is a seperate "hole" to put oil in, regular Automatic Transmission Fluid is fine, for that matter.  There are a lot of "old wive's tales" out there about synthetic oil being "too slick", allowing bearings to "skate", etc.  All that is total BS.



Like I said, I agree with everything you have said about synthetic oils.  I was just making comment on the one application where I did observe it being too slick. By the way, it was on a slip clutch on an airplane starter. The slip clutch has a series of cam pins within a housing, not unlike how needle bearings lay within their housing.  These cam pins grip the starter shaft during start up but once the engine starts, allows the starter shaft to rotate freely in the opposite direction.  In one direction when the shaft starts to turn, the cam pins will ride up toward the lobes gripping the starter shaft and rotating the engine to start.  Once the engine starts the shaft starter shaft rotates in the opposite direction, forcing the cam pin lobes to lay down in the housing.  Old technology really.