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[GtreetSlide]

Questions about function in newest version of TTS versus an older version #157 (on one of my laptops)....

My understanding is that version #157 does not lock the ECU, while the newest version does. I don't think that V157 software will open the MT8 files.

So, my question is;
"Will the latest version of TTS lock the ECU even if using an older MT7 Cal?"

Regarding the TTS base maps; I'm about to tune a 2011 trike and noticed that the Main Lambda Table translates to a much richer map in general than the AFR based TTS map for my 2008-2009 stage II 103.  This made me curious as to the intention behind the creation of AFR and Lambda tables in these base maps.

Are the base maps from TTS based on original Harley Flashes, or were they based on real motors tuned with dynos, or something else?

Thanks for any clarification on this...

jb

[Unbalanced]

Not sure what you mean by lock the ECU, ALL versions other than possibly a hack would marry the ECU to the Doggle (small black box).

I believe you are correct in that MT8 files were not included or supported in software version 157 so it would be for MT6 and MT7 files.

I can't speak for Steve, but my understanding was that they revamped all the maps when they went from the SERT to the TTS and during this is when they added a lot more functionality.   My understanding on the maps was that some were done on real bikes and some are theoretical updates and some were uploads from vendors, but you would have to ask Steve Cole on that answer.

I have heard stories of Harley not being able to read ECU's with MT8 Files on them, but have never really devled into it.

Could you clarify what you mean by lock the ECU?

[Steve Cole]

All of the calibrations were developed on real engines. Some are from dealers and some are from TTS in house but they all at one time or another came from real running engines. Some changes were made as newer features were added but the base came from a calibration that was run. One thing we did change on some calibrations when changes were made was to reduce total timing due to the changes in fuel quality. That only happened on a calibration if we had to work on it. There was no reason to redyno for changes like that. Now that's out of the way we can move to the locking feature. This was added when we released the MT8 calibrations. The MT8 calibrations have features that are not found anywhere but from TTS as we rewrote the code necessary to make them work. This means the code is no longer the same as what HD used to start with. Since that is the case if we allowed someone to try and reprogram it they could make the ECM dead so we stopped it from happening. The instructions both on screen and in the manuals tell you many times to backup the original calibration that was in the bike prior to installing the TTS calibration into the bike. This will allow you to return to that calibration anytime you like. When the TTS calibration is installed the ECM cannot be programmed by anything other than the TTS unit. The dealership can do whatever they want to or need to other than programming the ECM. If they need to reprogram the ECM just reinstall your backup of the original first, and then they can do as they wish. Once they are done at the dealership just make a new backup of what they have done first then reinstall your TTS calibration.

[GtreetSlide]

All of the calibrations were developed on real engines. Some are from dealers and some are from TTS in house but they all at one time or another came from real running engines. Some changes were made as newer features were added but the base came from a calibration that was run. One thing we did change on some calibrations when changes were made was to reduce total timing due to the changes in fuel quality. That only happened on a calibration if we had to work on it. There was no reason to redyno for changes like that. Now that's out of the way we can move to the locking feature. This was added when we released the MT8 calibrations. The MT8 calibrations have features that are not found anywhere but from TTS as we rewrote the code necessary to make them work. This means the code is no longer the same as what HD used to start with. Since that is the case if we allowed someone to try and reprogram it they could make the ECM dead so we stopped it from happening. The instructions both on screen and in the manuals tell you many times to backup the original calibration that was in the bike prior to installing the TTS calibration into the bike. This will allow you to return to that calibration anytime you like. When the TTS calibration is installed the ECM cannot be programmed by anything other than the TTS unit. The dealership can do whatever they want to or need to other than programming the ECM. If they need to reprogram the ECM just reinstall your backup of the original first, and then they can do as they wish. Once they are done at the dealership just make a new backup of what they have done first then reinstall your TTS calibration.

Thanks Steve for the explanation. This is very helpful.

I can understand that it was necessary to keep an unknowing HD tech from modifying an MT8 cal, especially if there were changes made in tables that the tech can't see or isn't aware of to adjust. I guess my question is if the latest Mastertune software also locks MT7 cals in the same fashion as MT8 cals? Maybe it is a non-issue if All TTS installed map versions and software require the TTS unit exclusively for making any changes. I had just assumed that older versions of TTS and MT7 cals could be adjusted by the dealer's software.

[Steve Cole]

Yes it was easier for us to keep track of things by just locking them all. There is nothing in the HD dealer tools from a tuning standpoint that could be adjusted to begin with so that would not matter if it was locked or not. The older software allowed the dealership to remove the older calibration and install a new one but they could only remove and replace. Other manufacture tools could and did copy what was there. Understand that there is more than one area in the ECM that CAN be programmed. Most units on the market today only reprogram one of those areas and do not even look at the others. So if they copied one area only and reprogrammed it and left the other areas alone they COULD screw it up very easy, since they do not know or look at the other areas, there was just too many chances for a screw up. Safer to lock it so that no damage could be done.

[GtreetSlide]

Yes it was easier for us to keep track of things by just locking them all. There is nothing in the HD dealer tools from a tuning standpoint that could be adjusted to begin with so that would not matter if it was locked or not. The older software allowed the dealership to remove the older calibration and install a new one but they could only remove and replace. Other manufacture tools could and did copy what was there. Understand that there is more than one area in the ECM that CAN be programmed. Most units on the market today only reprogram one of those areas and do not even look at the others. So if they copied one area only and reprogrammed it and left the other areas alone they COULD screw it up very easy, since they do not know or look at the other areas, there was just too many chances for a screw up. Safer to lock it so that no damage could be done.

Thanks for the insight Steve, this clears up all the fog for me. Now everything makes sense. I have used TTS on my 09 103 and was very happy with the results, so when I rode a friend's 2011 103 Trike with big mufflers and a HD download I was really shocked. Even in cool Arizona winter weather it had a really nasty lean surge and was HOTTTT... Plus it ran like a dog...

Since he also has an 09 trike in his summer home up north, I knew tuning it would be a breeze, so I convinced him to get the two bike TTS so I could tune both his trikes for him. I'll be tackling the 2011 trike lambda tune for the first time next week, but the lean surge went away with just a download of a TTS map, so can't wait to get in and VTune it...

"Friends will Ride with you; but GOOD Friends will Tune for You!"  LOL......
jb