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Author Topic: Best beginning TTS Base File  (Read 4045 times)

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hdaliaconis

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Best beginning TTS Base File
« on: February 27, 2013, 07:45:26 PM »

Just bought my 2013 FLHTCUSE8.  I have swapped out the stock mufflers for V&H 4.5" ovals and will be soon removing the cat.  Trying to decide which TTS base file to load.  Looks like EUK009-03.  My only concern is that the detail for this file lists 10.5 compression ratio and a 236/269 cam plus injector info etc.  I can't seem to identify what the stock CVO 110" engine come with.  These are the only two mods I plan to make and would like some info. re what the stock engine comes with.  The owners manual and shop manual supplement don't give much info. Any help would be appreciated. 
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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 07:53:07 PM »

Just bought my 2013 FLHTCUSE8.  I have swapped out the stock mufflers for V&H 4.5" ovals and will be soon removing the cat.  Trying to decide which TTS base file to load.  Looks like EUK009-03.  My only concern is that the detail for this file lists 10.5 compression ratio and a 236/269 cam plus injector info etc.  I can't seem to identify what the stock CVO 110" engine come with.  These are the only two mods I plan to make and would like some info. re what the stock engine comes with.  The owners manual and shop manual supplement don't give much info. Any help would be appreciated. 

The stock engine is approximately 9.2:1 compression and the cams are 255's.  That map you are looking at is for a modified engine, not a stock one.

Jerry
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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 08:29:51 PM »

2011–2012
Touring
1800
A/C, factory 2:1:2 exhaust
ETA044-03

http://www.mastertune.net/downloads/Delphi/Manuals/MasterTuneCalFileListing-v37.pdf
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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 08:35:32 PM »

I was told NOT to use any of the library maps :nixweiss:. Call Fullsac and tell Steve what you have and he will email you a map :drink:.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 07:23:26 AM by 2ksoftail »
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hdaliaconis

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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 08:44:54 PM »

Thanks for the help.  Great site!
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ozrobo

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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 09:53:55 PM »

Just bought my 2013 FLHTCUSE8.  I have swapped out the stock mufflers for V&H 4.5" ovals and will be soon removing the cat.  Trying to decide which TTS base file to load.  Looks like EUK009-03.  My only concern is that the detail for this file lists 10.5 compression ratio and a 236/269 cam plus injector info etc.  I can't seem to identify what the stock CVO 110" engine come with.  These are the only two mods I plan to make and would like some info. re what the stock engine comes with.  The owners manual and shop manual supplement don't give much info. Any help would be appreciated. 

I would also run EUK009-03.....But I would also do a Cam Data run.
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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 10:41:38 PM »

Thanks for the help.  Great site!

you are welcome good luck with the vtuning.   
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hdaliaconis

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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 12:53:18 PM »

I would also run EUK009-03.....But I would also do a Cam Data run.

That's what I kida thought too.  Because the calibration listings show that tune for a CVO Touring bike.  But the engine configuration data don't match.  I have used the TTS tuner with other bikes and know how to do VTune runs but don't know what a "Cam Data run" is. 

Can you explain?

Thanks
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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2013, 02:15:30 PM »

That's what I kida thought too.  Because the calibration listings show that tune for a CVO Touring bike.  But the engine configuration data don't match.  I have used the TTS tuner with other bikes and know how to do VTune runs but don't know what a "Cam Data run" is. 

Can you explain?

Thanks

http://www.mastertune.net/downloads/Delphi/Manuals/MasterTune_Tuning_Guide-v133.pdf

page 78
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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2013, 04:22:48 PM »

The term "1800 CVO" in the TTS cal file listing document generally means a stock 110" engine with the stock 2-1-2 exhaust, cams, and breather - because thats what CVOs come with now.

The EUK009-03 cal file is not the right one for you to use for your basically-stock CVO Ultra. It is for a modded engine with much higher duration cams, head work, big injectors, etc. Your stock 110" engine would be swimming in fuel with that cal file! 

For a 2011-2012 (or 2013) stock CVO Touring bike, it says to use the ETA044-03 cal file to start. That's the one you should use - because you have a stock 110" engine with the stock cams for CVOs, which are SE 255 cams. The mufflers are not nearly as important to the calibration as are the cams.

Also, if you are to remove the cat from the head pipe, I would do it before I bothered with VTune - so you don't have to do more VTune runs after the exhaust restriction is gone. A freer-flowing catless exhaust will change the breathing characteristics of the engine significantly, requiring more VTune runs.

The following text (in purple) is from the TTS cal file listing document:

How To Select Calibrations

Note:
This calibration listing is intended to be used in conjunction with the TTS tuning guide, “Using MasterTune and DataMaster to Tune Harley-Davidson Motorcycles”. Refer to the tuning guide for details on setting up calibrations to work with your specific vehicle.

As a general rule, use the following selection priority if your exact combination is not found. This works for most builds.

1. Match the vehicle year and model to get the correct calibration level (i.e.176, 205)
2. Match the camshaft selection (if not stock) as close a possible
3. Match the head configuration (if not stock)
4. Match the exhaust configuration

If the engine displacement or injector flow are different, you will adjust this in the ECM constants.

Note that the camshaft selection affects the vehicle’s breathing and part throttle drivability more than any other factor, thus is the most important factor to consider for your starting calibration.

If you are using VTune, several VTune iterations will be required to adjust any calibration to match your specific vehicle. Refer to the tuning guide for complete details on setting up a calibration for VTune.


As the document says - the cam selector settings for the cams you have in the bike are the most important thing to get correct first in the calibration. So, the first thing to do once you have flashed the starting calibration into the bike is to do a CamTune run to determine the cam selector intake valve opening (IVO) setting for the calibration. If this setting - along with the intake valve closing (IVC) setting - are not correct for the cams you have in the bike, then nothing else really matters, and you will be wasting your time trying to use DataMaster and VTune later. They can't compensate for incorrect IVO/IVC settings in the cam selector part of the calibration. You can use the "cam estimator" function in MasterTune to,determine the correct IVC setting (and IVO setting too, if you really don't want to do a proper CamTune run to determine it.)

The cam selector settings in the ETA044-03 cal file are correct for the stock CVO SE 255 cams - but if it were my bike I would do a CamTune run anyway - if only to verify that these settings are what your particular engine really needs. It only takes a few minutes to do a CamTune run, and then you know for sure what cam selector values you need to use.

Good luck!
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hdaliaconis

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Re: Best beginning TTS Base File
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2013, 05:41:13 PM »

The term "1800 CVO" in the TTS cal file listing document generally means a stock 110" engine with the stock 2-1-2 exhaust, cams, and breather - because thats what CVOs come with now.

The EUK009-03 cal file is not the right one for you to use for your basically-stock CVO Ultra. It is for a modded engine with much higher duration cams, head work, big injectors, etc. Your stock 110" engine would be swimming in fuel with that cal file! 

For a 2011-2012 (or 2013) stock CVO Touring bike, it says to use the ETA044-03 cal file to start. That's the one you should use - because you have a stock 110" engine with the stock cams for CVOs, which are SE 255 cams. The mufflers are not nearly as important to the calibration as are the cams.

Also, if you are to remove the cat from the head pipe, I would do it before I bothered with VTune - so you don't have to do more VTune runs after the exhaust restriction is gone. A freer-flowing catless exhaust will change the breathing characteristics of the engine significantly, requiring more VTune runs.

The following text (in purple) is from the TTS cal file listing document:

How To Select Calibrations

Note:
This calibration listing is intended to be used in conjunction with the TTS tuning guide, “Using MasterTune and DataMaster to Tune Harley-Davidson Motorcycles”. Refer to the tuning guide for details on setting up calibrations to work with your specific vehicle.

As a general rule, use the following selection priority if your exact combination is not found. This works for most builds.

1. Match the vehicle year and model to get the correct calibration level (i.e.176, 205)
2. Match the camshaft selection (if not stock) as close a possible
3. Match the head configuration (if not stock)
4. Match the exhaust configuration

If the engine displacement or injector flow are different, you will adjust this in the ECM constants.

Note that the camshaft selection affects the vehicle’s breathing and part throttle drivability more than any other factor, thus is the most important factor to consider for your starting calibration.

If you are using VTune, several VTune iterations will be required to adjust any calibration to match your specific vehicle. Refer to the tuning guide for complete details on setting up a calibration for VTune.


As the document says - the cam selector settings for the cams you have in the bike are the most important thing to get correct first in the calibration. So, the first thing to do once you have flashed the starting calibration into the bike is to do a CamTune run to determine the cam selector intake valve opening (IVO) setting for the calibration. If this setting - along with the intake valve closing (IVC) setting - are not correct for the cams you have in the bike, then nothing else really matters, and you will be wasting your time trying to use DataMaster and VTune later. They can't compensate for incorrect IVO/IVC settings in the cam selector part of the calibration. You can use the "cam estimator" function in MasterTune to,determine the correct IVC setting (and IVO setting too, if you really don't want to do a proper CamTune run to determine it.)

The cam selector settings in the ETA044-03 cal file are correct for the stock CVO SE 255 cams - but if it were my bike I would do a CamTune run anyway - if only to verify that these settings are what your particular engine really needs. It only takes a few minutes to do a CamTune run, and then you know for sure what cam selector values you need to use.

Good luck!

Thanks so much.  That clears it all up!!  I do exactly that!!
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