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[kmh364]

I found out that the dealer only measured clutch throw-out (travel) and said it was "within specs". They did NOT disassemble the clutch and check the clutch pack stack-up tolerances, nor the thicknesses of the frictions or steels. When I asked the Dealer to do just that, they said I'd have to pay unless Harley Authorized it....otherwise the Dealer would have to eat it. I again called H-D "Customer" Care and they said the Dealer would have to recommend clutch pack disassembly/inspection and ask H-D Tech Support for permission to do same in order to cover the "repair". Of course, despite threats of invoking NJS "Lemon Law" (three tries to fix a serious defect and they have to buy it back at full price), I'm entitled to get a "second opinion" from another authorized H-D Dealer. Otherwise, nothing will happen, unless that dealer recommends additional repairs.

As my salesman at the dealer is a personal friend and my next-door neighbor, he spoke to the Dealership owner on my behalf. They're willing to have the H-D District Service Manager ride my bike the week of the 22nd, but that's it. Bike's been at the Dealer since Oct 30th!!!

In other words, "Customer" Care is really Dealer Care....the Dealer gets to state whether the bike is "normal", not the Customer. I didn't know I get to spend $43k on a bike, and as long as the Dealer is satisfied with it, I don't count! You would think they'd throw parts at it just to satiate me, but H-D could care less.

I just may have to dust-off Bill Davidson's personal email. I just can't believe how poorly H-D treats loyal customers. They count on us buying their product time and time again. Unfortunately, I'm ashamed to admit that while I own other bikes, my *ss is going to be parked on a H-D luxobarge when it comes time to purchase a loaded full-dress tourer. Indian, Victory, BMW, Honda et al, all make good products, but I don't want any of those. Call me an idiot for taking their sh*t and still buying their product but, apparently, I'm far from alone.

[garretn]

Schedule a time and date to meet with the district manager face to face and let him ride it and see what he says.  I would think the district managers goal would be to make you happy and they should have the authority to give the dealer auth to tear down and inspect as needed.

Report back the results.

[GC_Super]

I'm going through the same issues on my 14 Ultra Limited. Dealer # 1 did the recall before I picked the bike up. First thing I noticed was the vibration/shutter when taking off. Just didn't feel right. Took it to Steve ( GMR ) for tuning and it was slipping bad. I said OK to putting a stronger spring in, but all that did was make the lever pull harder and changed the release point to where it released way too early. Still had the vibration/shutter at take-off and neutral was impossible to find. Took it back to Steve for tuning and after a couple of passes on the dyno, the clutch blew out. Sent it to Dealer # 2. They were great about it as was HD. Did the rebuild on HD's nickle. I picked the bike up Wed and as soon as I took off I knew it wasn't right. Doing the exact same thing as before it blew out. They did re-use the SE spring. Took it back to Dealer # 2 yesterday but I'm not holding my breath. Will probably wind up having to pay myself to make it right.

[kmh364]

Whaddya know! H-D's DSM threw me a "Birthday Present". While he blew-off my request to speak to him either personally or by phone (he gave a two-day window for show-up at the dealer), he rode the bike and authorized clutch disassembly. According to the dealer, the friction's and steel's are like new and measured within specs. (1,400mi, what a shocker!). No mention of measuring clutch-pack tolerance stack-up. The DSM authorized "whatever" it takes to fix it. After telling me throw-out is within specs., they're replacing the clutch slave cyl. push rod and disc. Seems like a complete waste of time to me, but at least they're doing something,

[grc]

Whaddya know! H-D's DSM threw me a "Birthday Present". While he blew-off my request to speak to him either personally or by phone (he gave a two-day window for show-up at the dealer), he rode the bike and authorized clutch disassembly. According to the dealer, the friction's and steel's are like new and measured within specs. (1,400mi, what a shocker!). No mention of measuring clutch-pack tolerance stack-up. The DSM authorized "whatever" it takes to fix it. After telling me throw-out is within specs., they're replacing the clutch slave cyl. push rod and disc. Seems like a complete waste of time to me, but at least they're doing something,

Hard to say if throwing parts at it will help or not, since it's possible at least part of the problem is related to the design.  But when you're dealing with Harley and their ultrawide tolerances, just because something measures "in spec" doesn't mean it's actually good.  There's a thing in engineering we call tolerance stackups, where even though each individual part in an assembly measures within its own tolerance you can have unsatisfactory results if parts at opposite ends of their tolerance range are placed together in that assembly.  The wider the tolerance for individual parts, the higher the probability of encountering a stackup problem that affects the performance of the assembly.

Anyhow, hopefully the clutch gods will be smiling on you and they will accidently "fix" the clutch to your satisfaction.

Jerry

[Byrddogg]

Every get bike fixed???

[kmh364]

No. Not to my satisfaction, at least. The H-D Zone Rep states on the R.O. that the clutch "is representative of a properly-functioning H-D motorcyle". B/S!

They replaced the entire hydraulic system, but it didn't fix the problem. The clutch pack tolerance stack-up has never been measured, even thought they claimed they disassembled the pack and "examined" the plates (frictions and steels). They claimed they were "like new" @ 1.4kmiles. Even if they measured the individual plates, and I don't believe they did, they still didn't check the installed clearance to the pressure plate. They should have replaced the entire clutch pack/basket/plate/spring, etc., at my insistence in order to satisfy the customer, but they really just don't care about Customer Service.

I'm considering claiming it under NJ Lemon Law, but will probably just trade for a '15 CVO Ltd when they're released and hope for the best. I simply dont have the time and energy to deal with the aggravation and increase in BP. In addtion, I'm not interested in a Victory, Indian or any other dresser, so I'm at the mercy of H-D. I imagine many of us are in the same boat...after you go CVO, where do you go from there AND get a warrantee and resale value?

[Twolanerider]

I'm considering claiming it under NJ Lemon Law, but will probably just trade for a '15 CVO Ltd when they're released and hope for the best. I simply dont have the time and energy to deal with the aggravation and increase in BP. In addtion, I'm not interested in a Victory, Indian or any other dresser, so I'm at the mercy of H-D. I imagine many of us are in the same boat...after you go CVO, where do you go from there AND get a warrantee and resale value?

This isn't personal to this poster.  Just using this particular post as an illustration of an all too common and larger issue.  Let's begin by running this through the Harley-dystopic-to-English translator:

My Harley Davidson motorcycle has issues.  Bad issues.  It's worth turning in as a lemon the issues are so bad.  The company can't fix it.  They've tried.  They're just too incompetent to get it right.  Their higher ups have been tapped.  No joy.  They are even reporting things to be true or correct that I don't think they've actually even looked at or measured.  And all this on a brand new 2014 marquee model from the company.  It's been a terrible experience with this individual bike and the company as a whole.  They've done badly and don't deserve my patronage.  Holy God I love them so much I'm just going to have to trade this 2014 for a new 2015 from the same people as soon as I possibly can.  Oh boy.....



And that, my friends, is why the asshole experiences too many share with Mother Harley don't have to get any better.  The Harley Davidson Motor Company is the only company I'm aware of that has managed to turn overall poor QC, antiquated design and technology application, and consumer support that too often verges on narcissistic arrogation all in to a sales tool.

[05Train]

This isn't personal to this poster.  Just using this particular post as an illustration of an all too common and larger issue.  Let's begin by running this through the Harley-dystopic-to-English translator:

My Harley Davidson motorcycle has issues.  Bad issues.  It's worth turning in as a lemon the issues are so bad.  The company can't fix it.  They've tried.  They're just too incompetent to get it right.  Their higher ups have been tapped.  No joy.  They are even reporting things to be true or correct that I don't think they've actually even looked at or measured.  And all this on a brand new 2014 marquee model from the company.  It's been a terrible experience with this individual bike and the company as a whole.  They've done badly and don't deserve my patronage.  Holy God I love them so much I'm just going to have to trade this 2014 for a new 2015 from the same people as soon as I possibly can.  Oh boy.....



And that, my friends, is why the asshole experiences too many share with Mother Harley don't have to get any better.  The Harley Davidson Motor Company is the only company I'm aware of that has managed to turn overall poor QC, antiquated design and technology application, and consumer support that too often verges on narcissistic arrogation all in to a sales tool.

Classic battered wife syndrome.......You see the same behavior on reruns of Cops.

[Jswerve]

This isn't personal to this poster.  Just using this particular post as an illustration of an all too common and larger issue.  Let's begin by running this through the Harley-dystopic-to-English translator:

My Harley Davidson motorcycle has issues.  Bad issues.  It's worth turning in as a lemon the issues are so bad.  The company can't fix it.  They've tried.  They're just too incompetent to get it right.  Their higher ups have been tapped.  No joy.  They are even reporting things to be true or correct that I don't think they've actually even looked at or measured.  And all this on a brand new 2014 marquee model from the company.  It's been a terrible experience with this individual bike and the company as a whole.  They've done badly and don't deserve my patronage.  Holy God I love them so much I'm just going to have to trade this 2014 for a new 2015 from the same people as soon as I possibly can.  Oh boy.....



And that, my friends, is why the asshole experiences too many share with Mother Harley don't have to get any better.  The Harley Davidson Motor Company is the only company I'm aware of that has managed to turn overall poor QC, antiquated design and technology application, and consumer support that too often verges on narcissistic arrogation all in to a sales tool.

Damn that's the truth.

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[Twolanerider]

Classic battered wife syndrome.......You see the same behavior on reruns of Cops.

I'd not considered it that way but the analogy has some truth to it.  And in that analogy you know who the HD accountants consider to be their bitches as they walk to the bank with the company deposits.

[grc]

Definition of insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Definition of totally f$%*ing crazy:  Buying Harley's over and over again and expecting the quality and customer service to be better.

Jerry

[kmh364]

Must be a lot of crazies on this forum then....many are multiple CVO owners.

I get a new H-D every two years...the depreciation is fairly stable by then and, more importantly, the original OEM warrantee is up...and I won't own one outside of warrantee. Don't even get me started about H-D's Extended Warrantee Plans: I still have a bad taste in my mouth over H-D's extended warrantee policies and practices from the "7-year plan" for my '99 FLHRCI.

H-D is no different than many other corporations, i.e., GM: use the consumer as a Beta-Tester, and eventually they'll work out the kinks (i.e., they redesign it and you buy the redesigned product).

After going with an Ultra Ltd., then trying to add some of the missing sh*t from the CVO that I really wanted (but didn't want to pay for), only to have issues with the expensive P&A stuff and the dealer that put 'em on while still not getting half of what the CVO came standard with for rougly the same money invested (while adding nothing to the book value of the bike), I went with the CVO Ultra.

Is it worth the $43k it costs? Depends on your point of view.

It certainly has some cheap details that H-D should be ashamed of for the money they charge. Personally, all the "extras" that come packed in the tourpack and bags (engraved iPod, garage door opener, bike cover, etc) Harley can certainly keep and trade for S/S/chrome fasteners for everything instead of the sh*tty Cd-plated ones, polished frt rotors for the ugly, raw, unpolished one's ($40 MSRP upcharge in the P&A Catalogue!!!), a matching chrome rear pulley for the hideous raw Al and black painted one, etc. Obviously, H-D has to look out for their Dealer's profit margins: A H-D that needs no P&A "upgrades"/"customization", with the requisite mark-up and labor, is an unpalatable bike for the Dealer.

FWIW, Honda, BMW, Polaris (Indian/Victory), etc. all make nice bikes, but there's only one I want to polish (for 15mins or a backache, whichever comes first) on Sunday and ride. Unfortunately, for me, it begins and ends with H-D: warts and all, I want a loaded H-D bagger parked under my *ss!

[Jswerve]

Must be a lot of crazies on this forum then....many are multiple CVO owners.

I get a new H-D every two years...the depreciation is fairly stable by then and, more importantly, the original OEM warrantee is up...and I won't own one outside of warrantee. Don't even get me started about H-D's Extended Warrantee Plans: I still have a bad taste in my mouth over H-D's extended warrantee policies and practices from the "7-year plan" for my '99 FLHRCI.

H-D is no different than many other corporations, i.e., GM: use the consumer as a Beta-Tester, and eventually they'll work out the kinks (i.e., they redesign it and you buy the redisigned product).

After going with an Ultra Ltd., then trying to add some of the missing sh*t from the CVO that I really wanted (but didn't want to pay for), only to have issues with the expensive P&A stuff and the dealer that put 'em on while still not getting half of what the CVO came standard with for rougly the same money invested (while adding nothing to the book value of the bike), I went with the CVO Ultra.

Is it worth the $43k it costs? Depends on your point of view.

It certainly has some cheap details that H-D should be ashamed of for the money they charge. Personally, all the "extras" that come packed in the tourpack and bags (engraved iPod, garage door opener, bike cover, etc) Harley can certainly keep and trade for S/S/chrome fasteners for everything instead of the sh*tty Cd-plated ones, polished frt rotors for the ugly, raw, unpolished one's ($40 MSRP upcharge in the P&A Catalogue!!!), a matching chrome rear pulley for the hideous raw Al and black painted one, etc. Obviously, H-D has to look out for their Dealer's profit margins: A H-D that needs no P&A "upgrades"/"customization", with the requisite mark-up and labor, is an unpalatable bike for the Dealer.

FWIW, Honda, BMW, Polaris (Indian/Victory), etc. all make nice bikes, but there's only one I want to polish (for 15mins or a backache, whichever comes first) on Sunday and ride. Unfortunately, for me, it begins and ends with H-D: warts and all, I want a loaded H-D bagger parked under my *ss!

Very well said

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