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Author Topic: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S  (Read 4188 times)

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Nemosengineer

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Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« on: February 21, 2015, 11:43:33 PM »

This is a controversial subject among some, Harley-Davidson does offset the rear wheel (or front wheel) on some of its models. I believe this is done to compensate for the weight offset towards the primary or left side of the motorcycle, the result of this is the motorcycle will roll in a perfectly vertical relationship to the road with the rider centered on the motorcycle, a good thing for most riders. The down side of this is the motorcycle has somewhat asymmetrical handling from left to right and can induce other handling ill's if pushed hard enough.
The reason I am removing the offset is that I plan to run the bike at El Mirage dry lake for fun in SCTA events and need a motorcycle that won't go sideways when running over 100 MPH on dirt.
How To:
First: Strip the sheet metal off the bike and perform the complete chassis alignment procedure including the top stabilizer link as described in the factory manual, this has to be perfect (Note: The vertical alignment may not correct on some FXD's as delivered, mine was way off).

Second:Run a piece of two inch tape around the circumference of the tire and mark the center-line of the tire.

Third: Pull a of string centered on the steering head, down and centered on the spine of the frame and mark the tape on the rear tire where the string touches, repeat this procedure until you are confident this measurement is correct, then do it again.

Fourth: The difference between these two lines marked on the tape is your wheel offset. Measure this very carefully as this is the amount you are going to remove from the left wheel spacer and add to a new spacer installed right side outboard of the caliper carrier (Note: Ensure the caliper carrier clearance slot is centered over the disc rotor, mine was not). Order new rear axle spacers and modify the new pieces so if you don't like this modification you can return to stock. Before you commit to machine work remove the axle spacers and slide the wheel over to align the tire center-line to the frame center-line (string from steering head) to see what hits and what fits.

Fifth: The wheel offset dimension will be somewhere around .300" inch, corrected this puts the pulley very close to if not in contact with the swing-arm, this will have to be adjusted so you have about .025" of clearance, if you are running a 180 mm tire you already know that tire to belt clearance is tight so you may not be able to remove all of your wheel offset. Check the clearance of the belt at the transmission pulley to ensure the belt is not in contact with the outboard limiter flange on the pulley. The quality of your result is directly related to your ability at taking complicated measurements, your judgment, and your skill.

Caution: I might be an idiot or worse, anything you do is at your own risk.

Best Wishes: Mike

NOTE: The Photo Is Upside Down :confused5:
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 12:19:59 AM by Nemosengineer »
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2015, 05:47:12 PM »

Round 2... New spacers.
 The wheel is now relocated to the chassis center-line (+/- .020 uncertainty), pulley to swing arm clearance is .055", The belt run is OK and clears the flange on the transmission pulley by about .010". In the photo the new spacers are on the left hand side.

Best Wishes: Mike
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2015, 05:53:07 PM »

This photo is before removing the offset.
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 05:55:56 PM »

This photo is after removing offset.
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2015, 05:28:48 PM »

Round 3... Disc Rotor Spacer,
The wheel offset is removed and I'm happy with that, but the engagement of the caliper bracket with the tab on the swingarm needs to be improved... So its back to the shop to build a rotor spacer to restore the factory caliper bracket geometry and to reduce the number of axle spacers from three to two.

To Be Continued...

Ride Safe: Mike
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2015, 12:20:21 AM »

Round 3.1... Finished,
The disc rotor spacer was fabricated, final dimension was .365" and installed with 1.750" long ARP bolts. A new axle spacer was cut to center the disc rotor in the caliper bracket, the caliper bracket is now in the factory location the quantity of axle spacers is now two, and this project is complete. :huepfenjump3:


Photo: rotor and spacer installed
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2015, 12:22:28 AM »

Photo: new axle spacers
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2015, 12:24:47 AM »

Photo: rotor clearance at caliper bracket
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2015, 12:28:44 AM »

Photo: finished
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RayG

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2015, 05:46:15 PM »

Lots of pro team race bikes run with an offset system, the important part is having the wheels running parallel and the rear wheel set at 90 degrees.  What you are doing is very precise work and you must feel a need for it for your riding style.  When the bike was in it's stock form did the it act up in the handling department?  Now that everything is running in a straight line is your rear wheel running at 90 degrees?  As in straight up and down?  I can only get my rotor with laser attached close to 90 degrees if I tighten the axle with weight on the rear tire.  If I don't tighten it with weight the axle will be resting on the top of the swing-arm slot.  With no weight the axle will rest on the bottom, I know it sound anal but it will move the rear wheel quite a bit.  With tires wearing out at a quick pace I have tried to get the alignment as close as possible.  There is quite a bit of up & down play on my 08 and with the cam style set up on mine I would need a spacer or a shim for the axle and different a few different sized cams for the disk side so I could get it perfectly aligned.  I spent quite a few hours doing an alignment only to find that the swing-arm bushings were resting flat on the swing-arm so I had to start all over again.  Good luck with your project,  we all know these bikes are not manufactured with tight tolerances. 
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Nemosengineer

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Re: Removing Rear Wheel/Chassis Offset From Late Model FXD'S
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2015, 12:01:01 AM »

Hi Ray,
When the bike was stock I felt I was transported back to 1975 as far as suspension goes, it had all the bad habits of any of the four cylinder products of Kawasaki plus the wallow of a rubber mount Norton Commando with shot Isolastic bushings. What I found disturbing was the Dyna's tail goes right when spinning the rear wheel and kicks left under "very" hard braking, I blame this behavior on the wheel offset. This sounds like a damming condemnation of the motorcycle but there were things that were right, like the steering (light and precise / with a 29 degree steering head), the rear suspension geometry (cantilevered forward mount shock location with a long swingarm), its ability to rack up miles with out beating me up, and the best thing... that wonderful v-twin engine that makes the motorcycle feel alive when you hit the starter button. The rest could be fixed.
Tire wear, The front tire always show feathering wear on the right side and the rear wears true, I would get about 10K miles before replacement of the set (Dunlop K401 + K591).
When I started the project in earnest, the chassis was rebuilt with new parts (both engine mounts, swingarm pivot complete, SKF wheel bearings, real Timkins in the steering head, on and on), at 22K miles everything was toast, the worst item was the swingarm pivot, replaced with new factory parts lubed with CV grease, the plan on this is to revisit the pivot in a few thousand miles, if I don't like what I see I will machine a custom pivot that will last.
I did the vertical alignment before I started the offset removal project, I used a Mitutoyo Digital Protractor Model 950-318 with 0.05 degree resolution with a machinist blocks clamped to the rotors for a 90 degree reference.
Here is a secret, if you loop a rubber bungee cord behind the frame downtubes then around the fork tubes (with a little lube) it will hold the forks in place to establish your 90 degree reference also you can use bungees looped around the frame to keep the wheels from rotating and you can use wood framing wedges to level the motorcycle on the stand.
To eliminate the rubber wiggle I used Alan Sputhe's Positrac system which allows vertical movement but not horizontal movement, basically it pins the engine to the chassis with heim end joints and establishes the three points (with the factory top mount) that defines a plane, this effectively eliminates the chassis flex and takes all side loads off the rubber engine mounts (similar kits are made for the touring bikes). Because I can't leave well enough alone, I replaced the upper engine mount with a true heim end link because the Dyna upper mount was built from rubber sleeves with steel bushings pressed in, it looked like a heim end joint and was a pain to adjust, no jacking screw. I will post later about the Positrac kit.

Best Wishes: Mike
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