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[adkg12]

OK so color me stupid if you want, but I think I have been maybe expecting too much out of this motor.  I started noticing that the sound I was complaining about only seemed to be really noticeable and annoying at 60-65MPH in 6th gear.  So I started "researching" and apparently, most riders dont even use 6th until over 65mph.  And frankly, when I am cruising on the highway at 70+, it purrrs.  Strong and clean and no stray noises whatsoever.  Float down to 65 and chatter.  So yea.. whats the consensus with this?
Glen

[Dr.D]

I prefer over 65 in sixth but may coast down hill in the low sixties but do not load the engine with attempted acceleration. To me lugging is strongly associated with how much work you are trying to make the motor do at low rpm.

[adkg12]

Oddly enough my tc96 Superglide was much better at it!!  I know these 110's dont like anything below 2200rpm's.  Once you realize the idiosyncrasies of these 110's, you might actually be able to enjoy the ride and not constantly be thinking something is going to grenade and drop you to the asphalt!  I kid.. I kid..
Glen
PS what happened to spring here!! LOL

[DCFIREMANN]

I never let my engine fall below 2k in gear while cruising. I was told by an engine builder years back with the longer stroke of the 103's and larger engines it was much harder on the lower end.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[JCZ]

What Dawg said....stroked motors do not like acceleration at low rpms.  Keep the revs up above 2500 and the motor purrs.

[Dan_Lockwood]

First off, I have an '09 SERG with Fullsac 2.5" baffles, Fullsac canned map and TTS Mastertune.  This bike runs great.  When I swapped out from 2" to 2.5" baffles, I expected a bit of a loss in the lower rpms for torque, but my seat of the pants dyno tells me I'm still good to go and didn't notice anything in performance, just volume of the exhaust.

I agree that lugging is associated with over working at lower rpms.  That being said, I often ride in 6th at 55 to 60 mph on level roads without any "lugging" issues.  I can speed up at those speeds in 6th, but I do it very slowly with the throttle.  If I need to get up to speed faster, I down shift.

BUT... I've just done my Andrews 30 tooth upgrade.  Mainly I did this for low gear two up.  Both my '08 SERK and my current '09 SERG have had issues, at least in my mind, with starting up from a stop.  I have to slip the clutch a lot.  Also in parking lot situations in low gear the speed is too fast on idle and I have to work the clutch to stay slow.  With my '76 FL 4 speed I can let the clutch out and just idle at walking speed.  Sooooo much better in my opinion.

I've only test ridden the bike now for about 5 miles with some on the freeway and some side streets.  First gear does seem to be better, but what I've noticed was when doing the high speed freeway entrance run, when I hit second gear it seemed to want to pull the front wheel off the ground.  I'm sure that's only in my mind, but it was REALLY a lot better for run up.  I also changed out my primary oil to Redline Primary Oil (old label MTL).  This may also make some difference as to how the clutch works.  But that second gear speed shift was like this bike had never done before. 

I'm sure my 6th gear will now be more in line with normal speeds and rpms.  I don't run 85 to 90 going down the freeway so at 70 to 75 I'm going to increase my revs by maybe 8% and that's not going to be an issue with me.  Or really that same increase in all the gears relative to speed.  Some say that with the this sprocket swap that mileage will drop.  Based on my riding I don't think I'll see much if any drop in mileage.  I typically get 44 to 48 mpg two up.  But I do ride conservatively compared to many others here.  We're like Sunday drivers on Saturday...  We mainly ride alone and just enjoy being out and riding around to nowhere in general, as long as I get my chocolate ice scream at some point in the ride.

I think it's going to be a BIG improvement overall, especially when I'm out in Sturgis area.  We're staying in Keystone and 16 from Rapid City to Keystone is long and gets increasingly higher the closer to Keystone.  When I had my '76 FL Shovelhead there in '06, if I didn't hit the hills at 65 or above, I would just lose speed until I had to downshift into 3rd gear.  Then I was over revving and it was an endless cycle, not good on the motor at all.

A couple years ago I was on a poker run with some other CVO guys and I was running two up and he was single up.  My wife and I were riding along in 6th at about 55 and he was having to run in 5th because he said his bike was chugging/lugging/jerking.  I guess not all bikes are created equal in that respect.  Maybe I have a VERY good canned map for my bike and that's the saving grace to running a bit slower without lugging the bike.

Sorry I digress...

I'm just saying that lugging is subjective. I know what lugging is; I've been a motorhead since I was in grade school.  Anything with a motor and I was hooked.  So at 55 to 65 on my bike and maintaining speed on level highways I was not lugging.  If I was going up a grade or had to get up to a higher speed quickly, then I down shifted to keep from lugging the motor.

[grc]

This is why someone invented automatic transmissions, so the non-motorheads wouldn't have to worry about such things.  Maybe it's time for Harley to introduce an automatic?

Lugging isn't a number on a speedometer or a tachometer, no matter what many people continue to claim.  You might notice when driving your automatic transmission car that the engine will purr right along in top gear at very low road speeds and rpm.  When you add load, like going up a grade or attempt to accelerate, then the trans will shift down to the appropriate gear.  It's the same thing on a manual trans, except the driver/rider has to understand when and why he should shift.

If the engine is tuned well in the lower rpm's, you may be surprised how smoothly it will run in sixth gear while just maintaining speed on a level road at engine speeds below 2500 rpm.  Just don't grab a big handful of throttle at 2000 rpm in sixth and expect response like you get from your car.  This is one of those things that people learn over time and develop a "feel" for.  There is no hard and fast rule involved, no matter how much some people like to proclaim there is.

Jerry

[adkg12]

Fully aware of how it works GRC .  In my other bikes (before I got a real one), I COULD cruise along in 6th with no chugging.  It pulls just fine and isnt really chugging at 65 in 6th, its just noisy.  Just learning the nature of the beast thats all.  The 110 is a different monster in some respects....
Thanks
Glen

[ltank]

I don't use 6th unless I am running a long distance at 75 or more.
I run 80 at 3000 RPM in 6th. I normally shift between 2800 and 3400 rpm. 5th gear I can run comfortable at 3500 almost 80 mph.
I don't chug my bike . My 5th gear daily range is 60 to 75mph or more if hot rodding then the norm is 4800 rpm. Never a need to do more

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

This is why someone invented automatic transmissions, so the non-motorheads wouldn't have to worry about such things.  Maybe it's time for Harley to introduce an automatic?

Lugging isn't a number on a speedometer or a tachometer, no matter what many people continue to claim.  You might notice when driving your automatic transmission car that the engine will purr right along in top gear at very low road speeds and rpm.  When you add load, like going up a grade or attempt to accelerate, then the trans will shift down to the appropriate gear.  It's the same thing on a manual trans, except the driver/rider has to understand when and why he should shift.

If the engine is tuned well in the lower rpm's, you may be surprised how smoothly it will run in sixth gear while just maintaining speed on a level road at engine speeds below 2500 rpm.  Just don't grab a big handful of throttle at 2000 rpm in sixth and expect response like you get from your car.  This is one of those things that people learn over time and develop a "feel" for.  There is no hard and fast rule involved, no matter how much some people like to proclaim there is.

Jerry

How very well said.
We have a client that has a 4 3/8" stroke, 107"/5 speed bike that says it rattles at 1700 rpms in high gear, especially if he is climbing a hill! (I'll bet it does!!!!)
Under the suspicion he thinks he has a diesel, but if he continues to abuse/misuse it that way, we all know what is going to occur.
Scott

[Ridgerunr]

Jerry's correct, no mph or rpm as a rule. Cams and tune play a role as does gearing. Harley motors are quite vocal, all one has to do is listen and feel, and shift for Gods sake. Why the factory gave us 6 gears, and TC's are designed for higher rpm's than our old Pans & Shovels. My 113" saw 6 grand on a weekly basis for nearly 70,000 miles, and now my 110" 5600 rpm often, 4800 rpm is a stroll through the park.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]