Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hdfatboy]

Have a confusing situation goin' on.
I'm approx 4K miles post cam build on my 110 and recently logged 2K miles during my Myrtle trip. Head gaskets are solid, and the bike ran strong.
But! Yup, there's a BUT! The guys I rode to Myrtle with noticed that I was smoking on deceleration. Actually, it was the bike that was smoking.
It's clean (no smoke) on acceleration but then it began losing power this weekend. We immediately assumed that the rings were good and the problem must be a valve guide or seal. Prior to teardown: no compression loss. Upon teardown: valve guides and seals are in good condition, seat pressure is good but there was alot of oil lying in the Ness Big Sucker/Intake. Also, the plugs looked like they had coral growing on them. So I'd attribute the spark plug growth to be poor quality fuel and burning all that oil It used a quart in approx 1,200 - 1,500 miles. I'm running Amsoil (in all three holes - 20/50 in the crankcase & primary and severe gear in the trans). Everything appeared intact and without defect other than the oil seemed thin and excessively dirty with a foul odor considering I only have the Myrtle trip (now approx 2.5K miles) on this oil.

Does anyone have any opinions or previous experience like this? There seemed nothing out of the ordinary other than the plugs and the excessive oil in the intake. We buttoned her back up, replaced the spark plugs with fresh ones and changed the oil & filter. Could and oil journal be plugged? (Oil isn't draining out of the rocker boxes, goes through the intake and gets burnt with bad gas causing the tumor growth on the plugs  ) Oil is too thin? (finding its way out the breather as it's easiest egress )  Blow by? I put SAE50 fossil in it and I'm going to keep checking the oil level at each fill-up for a while.

On a positive note: Swapped out the Rinehart true duals for a D&D Fat Cat 2-1! Great sound and bumped HP to 107 & TQ to 109!

Any comments would be appreciated.
Mike

[Midnight Rider]

Have a confusing situation goin' on.
I'm approx 4K miles post cam build on my 110 and recently logged 2K miles during my Myrtle trip. Head gaskets are solid, and the bike ran strong.
But! Yup, there's a BUT! The guys I rode to Myrtle with noticed that I was smoking on deceleration. Actually, it was the bike that was smoking.
It's clean (no smoke) on acceleration but then it began losing power this weekend. We immediately assumed that the rings were good and the problem must be a valve guide or seal. Prior to teardown: no compression loss. Upon teardown: valve guides and seals are in good condition, seat pressure is good but there was alot of oil lying in the Ness Big Sucker/Intake. Also, the plugs looked like they had coral growing on them. So I'd attribute the spark plug growth to be poor quality fuel and burning all that oil It used a quart in approx 1,200 - 1,500 miles. I'm running Amsoil (in all three holes - 20/50 in the crankcase & primary and severe gear in the trans). Everything appeared intact and without defect other than the oil seemed thin and excessively dirty with a foul odor considering I only have the Myrtle trip (now approx 2.5K miles) on this oil.

Does anyone have any opinions or previous experience like this? There seemed nothing out of the ordinary other than the plugs and the excessive oil in the intake. We buttoned her back up, replaced the spark plugs with fresh ones and changed the oil & filter. Could and oil journal be plugged? (Oil isn't draining out of the rocker boxes, goes through the intake and gets burnt with bad gas causing the tumor growth on the plugs  ) Oil is too thin? (finding its way out the breather as it's easiest egress )  Blow by? I put SAE50 fossil in it and I'm going to keep checking the oil level at each fill-up for a while.

On a positive note: Swapped out the Rinehart true duals for a D&D Fat Cat 2-1! Great sound and bumped HP to 107 & TQ to 109!

Any comments would be appreciated.

Others will have more expertise, but I've read here that some of the piston rings have not been installed properly (gaps not properly staggered).  Seems that a problem like this could be caused by that situation.

[kojak]

If it started only after you changed the new cams were installed, take it in and have the timing checked.

[grc]

Another possibility:  When reinstalling the oil pump after the cam change, perhaps the alignment wasn't done properly or an O-ring got nicked.  This will contribute to excessive oil going to the intake through the breathers. 

Jerry

[hdfatboy]

Another possibility:  When reinstalling the oil pump after the cam change, perhaps the alignment wasn't done properly or an O-ring got nicked.  This will contribute to excessive oil going to the intake through the breathers. 

Jerry

That's really the only thing we didn't check. Actually hadn't even occured to me. Sounds like a good reason for a look-see.
Thanks. I'll give it a look this weekend.
Mike

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

A improperly aligned oil pump will cause this.  Also you did not mention if you have had the engine tuned?? If you are running overly rich this would cause some of your issues' as well. If you are dumping fuel in the oil, you can thin it to a point where it can cause your problems.  What compression do you have and what is the leak down %. Take it step by step and you will find the cause.

[hdfatboy]

A improperly aligned oil pump will cause this.  Also you did not mention if you have had the engine tuned?? If you are running overly rich this would cause some of your issues' as well. If you are dumping fuel in the oil, you can thin it to a point where it can cause your problems.  What compression do you have and what is the leak down %. Take it step by step and you will find the cause.

GMR
Compression is 9.5 and LDP is around 14% +or-. I'm really starting to question the oil pump and if I may have pinched an O-ring the more that I think about this.
Mike

[hdfatboy]

A improperly aligned oil pump will cause this.  Also you did not mention if you have had the engine tuned?? If you are running overly rich this would cause some of your issues' as well. If you are dumping fuel in the oil, you can thin it to a point where it can cause your problems.  What compression do you have and what is the leak down %. Take it step by step and you will find the cause.

And, forgot to mention, it has been dyno tuned (SERT) AVG AFR is 13.7. I had also assumed a possible "gas wash" situation. It was just tuned again for the Fat Cat. But, yes, it was also tuned for the Rineharts previously.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

14% leak down is more than I would like. 8-10 is normal with 10 being the max in my opinion, that amount of leak down is going to increase crank case pressure and will over come the breather system so misting is the by product.

[hdfatboy]

I wanted post the findings and POSITIVE outcome!! 

After having changed the oil to fossil SAE 50 and partial teardown to examine the seeimingly obvious: valves, guides, torque specs etc. and coming up empty. I wanted to put some miles on and see what she'd do. After only 220 miles she used another half pint  . So, after finally getting some time to dig deeper the second teardown started last Saturday  . This time . . . the gloves are off! Something is wrong and we've got to find it. When the rear cylinder was cracked loose it made an obvious vacuum sound like when a jar lid is loosened and an immediate spew of about a tablespoon of oil ran out from between the head and cylinder.

After complete teardown of the top end a blocked oil journal that returns oil to the cam cavity was discovered. Apparently it had been that way for a long time. Compression and LDP (although subtle) was confirmed when she was opened up. The rear cylinder walls looked brand new with obvious crisp cross hatching and the rings still sharp. They never seated. Apparently the excess oil returning from the top of the motor had nowhere to go but get sucked back into the cylinder overlubricating the rear cylinder and getting burned up in combustion . . . So, after new rings and head gaskets (both front and rear) cleaning up the heads more clay and measuring and a whole lotta TLC she back together and (although in "break-in mode") running strong!!

I keep saying "we" . . . well, we is a friend. (I call him that as he's grown to be that) A friend who happens to be the best HD wrench I know. We have colaborated on modifications and upgrades and now this little wrinkle. Well, now we can go back to colaborating the mods as headwork, increased compression and another set of pistons in the works for the fall!!

Mike

[hdfatboy]

I wanted post the findings and POSITIVE outcome!! 

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention - all was covered by the warantee. I only had to pay for the additional chrome hardware . . .
I WILL LEAVE MY CREDIT CARD AT HOME, I WILL LEAVE MY CREDIT CARD AT HOME, I WILL LEAVE MY CREDIT CARD AT HOME,
 I WILL LEAVE MY CREDIT CARD AT HOME . . . .

[Chief]

I'm glad you got it all figured out. Now you can relax and enjoy the ride.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

The rear return oil galley was blocked.  So the blockage was in the head, or the cylinder?? And what was the blockage??

[hdfatboy]

The rear return oil galley was blocked.  So the blockage was in the head, or the cylinder?? And what was the blockage??

GMR,

Cylinder at the deck. It appeared like a "sludge". It looked like it may have started on a fiber, or strand from a shop rag or towel of some sort. (?)
There was definately some sort of fabric involved. Hopefully, after dislodging the clot achieving flow under gravity and all the additional work - honing, base gaskets, head gaskets, head clean-up etc. . . . all is good. Need more miles. Only got 400 this weekend. . . I gues time will tell.

Have you any suggestions for the heads. Haven't been here often enough recently to pick up any info lately. Really need to improve the flow, maybe the geometry and compression after the riding season gets too cold this winter.

Mike