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[jwil164]

The clutch on my 2004SE Deuce is not disengaging completely. I rebuilt the master cylinder and the slave cylinder. Changed out all the fluid. I used a vacuum pump to bleed the system. All this and it's still shifting extremely hard and not disengaging completely! Has anyone had this problem?I'm not sure what else to do, what did you do to correct it?

[Twolanerider]

 There's very little to go wrong on the hydraulic clutches and it sounds like you've visited most of it.  So, unfortunately, it's time to revisit the work you've already done. 

Hydraulic clutches generally only work "hard" if the piston assembly in the master cylinder has a problem, if the slave cylinder is all gummed up or if there is a mechanical problem in the clutch itself.  One time dealt with one that felt "hard" to operate when the fluid line had collapsed internally and was itself a blockage.

Not fully disengaging has equally few potential fail points.  Again, a problem in the master cylinder, a slave cylinder not sliding as it should and potential blockages keeping fluid from returning to the master cylinder as the clutch is released.  Once again the unlikely alternative of a line collapsed internally might cause (things to thing of when you've exhausted everything else) or even too much fluid in the master cylinder is another conceivable, albeit unlikely, option to consider and eliminate.

When you say "not disengaging" are you meaning "ever" or that it walks at idle at bit (especially if when cold)?  If the latter that issue might also be too an overfilled primary housing.

Narrow and specify your descriptions a bit more.  Unfortunately given what you've described so far the options end up being just about every part of the system.  Even if you narrow it down to potential problems that might only impact both of the symptoms you describe you're still potentially looking at just about everything.

If you've recently done clutch work were there any parts changes from stock.  For example a set of Barnett clutches and perhaps you used synthetic motor oil in the primary.  That's a combination that can be problematic sometimes for release problems but wouldn't make the lever hard to pull.

Stretch out your explanation a bit.  Perhaps someone smarter than I am will have some other ideas.

[jwil164]

Clutch is dragging which is making it shift hard,clunking loudly. When it's put in gear it does it extremely loud. I'm going to be bleeding the system again later after work. The clutch lever is not hard to pull. Clutch seems to engage closer to the grip than before the work was done.

[grc]

Clutch is dragging which is making it shift hard,clunking loudly. When it's put in gear it does it extremely loud. I'm going to be bleeding the system again later after work. The clutch lever is not hard to pull. Clutch seems to engage closer to the grip than before the work was done.

It is fairly common actually to have to bleed the system several times before you get all the air out.  Hopefully you used DOT 4 fluid and not DOT 5.  DOT 5 silicone based fluid is nearly impossible to bleed completely.

IF, and that's a big IF, you got all the air out and the clutch is still dragging, odds are either the rebuild of the master cylinder didn't go well and you have internal bypassing, or perhaps the actuator has bit the dust.  The first thing I'd do would be to set up a dial indicator and check the actual travel of the clutch release rod.  The absolute minimum spec from Harley is 0.065" travel, and ideally you want more.  If you have the proper amount of travel, that tells you the problem isn't in the hydraulics and you'll have to start looking at the actual clutch.

Jerry

[jwil164]

I used Dot 5 because that's what it called for on the master cylinder cap and in the manuel. I will bleed it and post what happens.

[grc]

I used Dot 5 because that's what it called for on the master cylinder cap and in the manuel. I will bleed it and post what happens.

OK, I forgot that Harley used DOT 5 in 2004.  They switched everything, brakes and clutch, to DOT 4 in 2005.   You may have to bleed the system many times with the DOT 5.  Try not to do any rapid clutch lever cycles, which can make it worse.  The air actually becomes entrained within the fluid, thus the difficulty bleeding the system.

Jerry

[jwil164]

I've bleed the clutch system until I'm sick of bleeding it! It seemed good the night before last, soI rode it to work Tuesday morning. It was good on the way to work but on the way home it was clunky and hard to shift. When I got home it I couldn't find neutral, it just keeps skipping over it. So I bleed it some more which made no difference at all! My old Springer Softail w/ Eco 5 speed never lets me down. I'm very disappointed with the SE Deuce! Is it possible to change over to a regular clutch setup?

[johnsachs]

Straight forward on a Softail. 
If you have tried everything with no results, then by all means convert to a cable clutch .
You'll need:
Clutch cable.
Trans. right side clutch cover assembly, with all internal parts.
Clutch pushrod, adjuster plate, adjuster stud and locknut.
Clutch perch, and lever assy. with pin, and clip for the handlebars.
John

[chaos901]

After I changed my fluid and bled the clutch (so I thought) according to the SM, I was having the problem of the clutch engaging close to the grip, hard to find N, etc. 

What I learned and maybe you already know this, is to go real SLOW doing the bleeding.  Got it beld right after that and it all works fine.   

Again, this was just my experience.

[jethro_3(deceased)]

When I had the V-Rod I used a speed bleeder.  Could not say enough good things about it.  HD messed it up 3 timers and I really hated the hyd clutch.  After I did it with the speed bleeder I NEVER had another problem.

[jwil164]

Thanks for all of your responses. Can't find the speed bleeders for my SE Deuce in my area. If I find them I'll try them. Will post what happens with it all.

[Twolanerider]

Thanks for all of your responses. Can't find the speed bleeders for my SE Deuce in my area. If I find them I'll try them. Will post what happens with it all.

Just reread the remarks so far.  Given what you've described in the latter parts not sure it's a bleeding issue since you seemed to have successfully bled, let it set, then had a problem again.  If once bled well I'd not expect an air intrusion or entrainment problem to so quickly recur.  DOT5 is a pain in the ass in many way, so not saying it's not happening, it's just a bit against the norm.

However; if you're still concerned about air and still using DOT5 (expensive DOT5) then make it simple on yourself and just don't keep  or .  Use your vacuum tool and suck out all the DOT5.  Despite many net based warnings to the contrary you can flush a DOT 5 system with DOT 4 or 4.1 and be just fine.  A good synthetic DOT 4 or 4.x fluid has nearly the boiling point of DOT 5 and it doesn't suffer from having the difficulties to work with that does DOT 5 silicone based fluid.

Don't get me wrong; there are benefits to DOT5.  It won't damage paint if spilled on a painted surface, it (generally) has a higher boiling point and it is hydroscopic (won't absorb moisture the way the other fluids will).  The benefits there are obvious.  They are, however, narrow. 

Good synthetics of the other fluids can come close to matching the boiling points.  Regular flushing every couple of years solves the moisture issue anyway.  If we're careful we protect the painted surfaces.  Then we get the benefits that the other fluids don't agitate like DOT5 does and entrain air (which is what it makes it so difficult to work with).  Pump a pedal or lever too aggressively and you create the problem while you're bleeding.  An ABS system with cause the problem when it works normally; which is why ABS equipped vehicles can't use DOT5.

If you're bored some night with a beer too many and a sacrificial blender try something.  Put a pint of DOT4 in a blender and spin it up.  After it's spun for a bit it's still normal looking DOT4.  Do the same with a pint of DOT5.  After it's spun it's all bubbly.  That, writ large, illustrates the problems we have inside the systems when handling DOT5.

[jwil164]

Flushed the system with dot 4 and a bunch of air came with it! It still doesn't work properly. When I changed the oil in the transmission the first time there was a lot of metal stuck to the magnetic plug and floating in the oil. When I drained it to put in the new slave cylinder parts there was more. After it didn't work this time I drained it again. Still more metal, nothing big just a lot of small stuff in the oil. So I'm thinking it's time for a tear down to remove the transmission and go through it. Will also see about clutch and pushrod at the same time. Thoughts on this course of action?

[Twolanerider]

 Thoughts on this course of action?

Just the obvious.  At this point you know a lot more about what's going on than anyone else here does; even though that may not be very much yet.  Tear it down.  See where all the debris is coming from.  Let us know.  Good luck on getting it sorted without too much pain/expense.

[jwil164]

The Deuce Lives!! I found nothing wrong with anything inside the transmission,only normal wear. The metallic particles were there because it had never had the oil changed since new! As far as the previous owner knew her ex had changed oil in engine only, sand I have some serious doubts about that! It was Very nasty! Took the clutch apart, cleaned, and inspected each disc. Put it all back together. So I turned back to the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder which I felt like had been bleed thoroughly. I had removed all dot 5 and replaced it with dot4 but the fluid was a light purple like the dot5! So hooked up vacuum pump and bleed it all out again until everything was completely clear. After all that it runs rides and shifts like it should. I also replaced the tires, Brake pads, and the wheel bearings in the back rim. Thanks for all your input. Wanted to let y'all know how it turned out. Ride safe.