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[Royalroadie]

Well I just heard from my dealer and the are going to put new pistons and rings in my motor so they are going to have the heads and jugs off.  I figured while they are already in there the might as well replace my lifters before they fail.  I asked the service writer since they in there I would like them to pull and inspect to lifter and he asked why.  I told him there are a lot of 110 owners who have had lifter failure. Secondly while the are doing the lifter they will be able to see if the cam lobes are not scored or damaged.    I have several question on lifters. 

1 It seem the general consensus is to go with S&S , are the premium worth the price?

2 will the stock rods work with the S&S regular lifters as well as the premium lifters

3 correct me if I am wrong,  most people use the adjustable rods because they change lifter without pulling the heads, they just cut them.

4 Am I on the right track?

[willyB]

1) Standard S&S are fine.
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes

Why the new Pistons?

[grc]

2.  The stock pushrods will work with standard design lifters.  If you use the lifters with limiters, which I don't recommend, then you will need to change the pushrods.  And btw, one piece pushrods like the standard ones are in fact superior to the heavier adjustable rod in terms of weight and reliability.  Even if someone wants to change the preload of the lifter, they can use a different length one piece rod (Harley sells them as well as others) instead of going with adjustable rods.  The adjustable rods just make it easier for those who don't want to remove the tank and rocker covers, or who want to "tweak" preload.

Jerry

[Royalroadie]

Well it's a long story, my ESP is about to expire and I took it in to have the comp replaced because of the level of shavings I found in the primary during my last oil change.  I was occasionally having the comp do the thwack and backfire on starting when it was hot. The comp was not making any other noise but I could tell it was jumping a lobe on these starts and they where good enough to take me at my word, so they ordered a new comp and told me it would be a few days before they could get it in due to backorders.   i had previously complained about it using a quart or so every 1000 miles and got the "that's not totally abnormal response", at that time it only had 3000 miles.  I thought it might not be broken in fully and did not fight it.  Now at 11000 miles its is still doing it and they looked  a little deeper and the now say it might be the rings our some place in the heads.
So they are going to due a ring and piston job and with what I have learned about lifter failure I decided to be proactive and get the crappy stock ones out while they have the jugs off.  I have to give them credit they found a leak on the shift rod seal also, which I had missed when I gave it its last good inspection.  I am so glad I have ESP.   

Is there anything else I should be concerned about while they have the jugs off?

[Royalroadie]

2.  The stock pushrods will work with standard design lifters.  If you use the lifters with limiters, which I don't recommend, then you will need to change the pushrods.  And btw, one piece pushrods like the standard ones are in fact superior to the heavier adjustable rod in terms of weight and reliability.  Even if someone wants to change the preload of the lifter, they can use a different length one piece rod (Harley sells them as well as others) instead of going with adjustable rods.  The adjustable rods just make it easier for those who don't want to remove the tank and rocker covers, or who want to "tweak" preload.

Jerry

Jerry thanks for the response.  I was hoping you might chime in,  I have always felt your responses were very spot on.  So you say the standard S&S are much better than the on HD used in the 2012 engines.   I know that S&S make several model of lifters,  exactly which model of lifter do you feel are the best to go with.  I do not plan on getting any different cam unless the turn out to be damaged due to the lifters.

[JKM]

you should consider the cam bearing as well.  Not sure what year they went to the SE version.
Also consider changing out the valve springs to AV&V.  The stock ones are way too stiff
Have you thought about going to 113" while the motor is open?  Maybe bumping up compression as well.

[xsdbs]

you should consider the cam bearing as well.  Not sure what year they went to the SE version.
Also consider changing out the valve springs to AV&V.  The stock ones are way too stiff
Have you thought about going to 113" while the motor is open?  Maybe bumping up compression as well.

It's a question of fixing "everything at once" vs fixing "one thing at a time"

I've replaced the compensator at 20k miles, the cam/bearings/lifters at 30k miles, and now looking at a second compensator at 40k miles.

Next on the list is a S&S crank, 113 pistons, and valves/springs, as soon as I have enough $$$$ saved up...

[Royalroadie]

you should consider the cam bearing as well.  Not sure what year they went to the SE version.
Also consider changing out the valve springs to AV&V.  The stock ones are way too stiff
Have you thought about going to 113" while the motor is open?  Maybe bumping up compression as well.

While these are all good ideas, I personally want to keep it as stock so I do not have issues with ESP.  This ESP has paid for itself already.

[grc]

IF you wind up changing cams to something other than stock, then you will need to determine if the new cam has the same base circle diameter as the stock cam.  If not, then a pushrod length change will be necessary.  Also, IF you change cams, then I would most definitely change the inner cam bearings to the full complement type used in the '13 and later CVO's.  That should not affect your ESP coverage, as Harley itself now recommends the higher capacity bearings.

As for the lifters, either the standard S&S or the Premium are highly recommended by a whole lot of engine builders.  I don't think you would go wrong with either.  The jury is still out on the upgraded lifters Harley installs in the 2013 and later CVO's, with reports of failures showing up on those as well.  It may be necessary, as others have mentioned, to start considering lifter replacement at 20k mile intervals to be part of normal maintenance, no matter what brand you use.  The problem is more than just the lifters (but the original Harley lifters didn't help), it seems to be more of a complete system problem.  Changing lifters every 20k is cheap insurance compared to an engine overhaul.  Of course if you plan to keep the ESP in force you will need to factor that into your decision as well.  No one can say with 100% accuracy what an ESP inspector would do if you had a failure and he noticed non-standard lifters.  My gut feeling is he would disallow the claim.

JMHO - Jerry