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Author Topic: Hard to start when warm  (Read 6059 times)

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bighd

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Hard to start when warm
« on: June 21, 2004, 05:01:57 PM »

Anyone having problem with starting their bike after it has been running for awhile.  It seems like if I don't start it as soon as the light goes out it doesn't want to fire or not getting any fuel.  I then turn it off and try again and it usually fires right up.  All I can see is wearing out a starter.
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110tHunDer

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2004, 11:23:32 AM »

I've noticed this bike's a little harder starting sometimes (cold or hot) than my '02 EG Classic was.  Just seems to take a few more cranks at times, but always starts.  Other times, seems to fire before I've pushed the button all the way down.  We have the high-torque starters, so although it does sound a bit like you're punishing it, I haven't worried too much about it, so far.
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Doc

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2004, 09:05:01 AM »

Mine starts reliably all of the time, just a slight press of the starter.  I had problems with my 99 Road King, and have not had the least worry with this one, hot, cold or indifferent.
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110tHunDer

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2004, 05:07:13 PM »

Mine took two cranks last night to get started when my wife and I were cruising around.  We were out in the country in the middle of nowhere and stopped just to rest our butts for awhile and listen(?) to the peace and quiet.  Went to take off again and bike cranked and cranked the first time but didn't start.  (Not a good feeling, especially where we were located.) [smiley=shocked2.gif] [smiley=nervous.gif]  Waited until the fuel pump quit whirring and hit it again and it started after a few more cranks. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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mr_magoo

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2004, 08:30:11 AM »

Not to worry you could have the little woman give you a push.   [smiley=laugh4.gif]
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mfgreen

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2005, 11:55:47 AM »

Quote
Anyone having problem with starting their bike after it has been running for awhile.  It seems like if I don't start it as soon as the light goes out it doesn't want to fire or not getting any fuel.  I then turn it off and try again and it usually fires right up.  All I can see is wearing out a starter.
S &S has suggested the following.

Hot street engines have not only gotten bigger, they've also gained compression.
Advances in combustion chamber design and tuning techniques have made these monsters more tolerant of pump gasoline than in the past, leaving hard starting as their main problem.

The first step in making these beasts more manageable is to check cranking compression with a good screw-in gauge. It is generally recommended 180-190 psi for street use, 200 psi for those who insist on pushing the limits. The easiest way to reduce cranking compression is to install a camshaft that closes the intake valve a little later. An engine with the recommended cranking pressure will deliver good power and throttle response but still be reasonably easy to start. Some engines, however, remain stubborn even with moderate cranking pressures. That's almost always caused by something outside the engine - a worn or binding starter or starter drive, a weak battery ,cheap or old cables, poor wiring connections, inappropriate ignition timing or overly aggressive advance curve, hydraulic lifter bleed-down, or an improperly spaced alternator rotor scraping on the crankcase, just to name a few of the culprits. Whatever the cause, there are several tricks for making a stubborn engine easier to start. A simple wiring change to remove the lights from the starter-ignition circuit will deliver more current to the starter. The draw back, of course, is that the rider must remember to switch the lights on. It is also possible to wire the ignition and starter circuits separately and use the handlebar "Stop-Run" switch to deactivate the ignition. With the ignition switch on and the handlebar switch in the "Stop" position, all battery current will go to the starter. That gives it more power to get the engine turning, at which point the handlebar switch can be flipped on to activate the ignition and fire the engine.

Another trick that can be extremely effective is to run a second ground cable from the negative terminal of the battery to one of the starter mounting bolts. This reduces resistance between the battery and starter, again increasing current to where it is needed.  Hard starting is a nuisance you shouldn't have to put up with. If your engine has 180-190 psi of cranking compression but remains hard to start, look outside the engine for the cause. If cranking compression is too high, lower your compression ratio or find a cam that closes the intake valve later.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2005, 06:20:46 PM by mfgreen »
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the O`Fender

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2005, 01:38:44 PM »

MFG are you employed? the reason I ask is the amount of typing you do is inhuman!!! [smiley=computer.gif]
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110tHunDer

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2005, 01:44:48 PM »

Quote
MFG are you employed? the reason I ask is the amount of typing you do is inhuman!!! [smiley=computer.gif]


O'Fender, you must've hit your head (again, LOL!).  That's not typing, that's cut and paste!  You should at least give credit to your source, MFG.
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mfgreen

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2005, 06:26:51 PM »

Quote
MFG are you employed? the reason I ask is the amount of typing you do is inhuman!!! [smiley=computer.gif]

when it warms up I'll have riding days of over a thousand miles....what's yer point....can't read stuff that will make sense when it gets hot out or or can't remember $hit the precursor to alzheimers........ just because I share good information....you're critcal??.......  then remain blissful as you like.
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JR

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2005, 06:44:33 PM »

I enjoy the words of wisdom you share with us on this site!!!! Please keep er commming Mike and thanks alot! [smiley=beerchug.gif]                    JR [smiley=laugh.gif]
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the O`Fender

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2005, 09:34:15 AM »

Quote
when it warms up I'll have riding days of over a thousand miles....what's yer point....can't read stuff that will make sense when it gets hot out or or can't remember $hit the precursor to alzheimers........ just because I share good information....you're critcal??.......  then remain blissful as you like.


I notice you have now modified your last post and corrected your plagurism, in the future try and give credit to the authors or better yet use hyperlinks. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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mfgreen

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2005, 02:28:01 PM »

Quote

I notice you have now modified your last post and corrected your plagurism, in the future try and give credit to the authors or better yet use hyperlinks. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Since I do not own a server and this was a personal email from S&S, of which you have an excerpt, parts of which, that I felt did not need to be posted in it's entirety, a hyperlink is out of the question. I am glad that you reread it and I believe that the actual information has been lost on you, as your criticism of the source of the information seems more important than the content.  May your scooter never be as bent as you are on criticism.
Thanks.
Mike
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JjR

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2005, 09:58:40 AM »

Quote
Anyone having problem with starting their bike after it has been running for awhile.
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JR

110tHunDer

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2005, 12:29:44 PM »

That waitin' for the fuel pump to prime and the light thingy to go off is always brought up, but a guy on another board who's a police officer and rides H-D's on duty produced a scan of a memo from H-D saying that it was not necessary to do this, even though that is the instruction per the owner's manual.  Could you imagine a cop sitting by watching the bad guys get away while the fuel pump is priming?  So now I am skeptical whether or not that's really necessary and have started my bike a few times without waiting just to see what happens and I've noticed no difference.  Your car/truck has an electric fuel pump, too, and you don't have to sit and wait for any lights to go out on it, right?

Not trying to start a flame, just bringing up some other information that I ran across.  I'll try to see if I can find it and post a link.  It was awhile back, though.
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BLM777

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Re: Hard to start when warm
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2005, 07:07:27 PM »

I let the fuel pump pressurize the system when the bikes' cold, but just crank it and go any other time.  Never had a problem except for the time I hung my jacket on the throttle grip for a couple of hours not realizing that the weight had held it about a third open.  For whatever reason, that little faux pas caused two or three attempts to start it. [smiley=dunce2.gif]
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