I told ya' I'd be back! In response to MJZ's initial post, and yours, I thought the following quote from Thomas Jefferson, some 200+ years ago,would be appropriate;
"If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and our drink, in our necessities and our comforts, in our labors and amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, and give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses.
"And the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they do now, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account. But be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains around the necks of our fellow sufferers.
"And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for the second, that second for a third, and so on until the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering. And the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train, wretchedness and oppression." There endeth the lesson. 
Later--HUBBARD
He also said this:
"I like the power given the Legislature to levy taxes, and for that reason solely approve of the greater house being chosen by the people directly. For though I think a house chosen by them will be very illy qualified to legislate for the Union, for foreign nations, etc., yet this evil does not weigh against the good of preserving inviolate the fundamental principle that the people are not to be taxed but by representatives chosen immediately by themselves." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787.
And this:
"I approved from the first moment of... the power of taxation [in the new Constitution]. I thought at first that [it] might have been limited. A little reflection soon convinced me it ought not to be." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.
And this:
"Calculation has convinced me that circumstances may arise and probably will arise wherein all the resources of taxation will be necessary for the safety of the state. For though I am decidedly of opinion we should take no part in European quarrels, but cultivate peace and commerce with all, yet who can avoid seeing the source of war in the tyranny of those nations who deprive us of the natural right of trading with our neighbors?... War requires every resource of taxation and credit." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1788.
Reading the writings of Thomas Jefferson is like reading the Bible (a book about which he had some very interesting things to say), one can generally find something to support any given position, on any given subject matter. No doubt, he was a brilliant and enlightened man, but full of contridiction, as are most people of deep thought, varied perspectives, and tolerance...today, he would most assuredly be labeled the dreaded (as seen by most who tend to post here)
LIBERAL...
Some of his most interesting writing was done on the subject of religion, by the way. His concept of God was very different than what most spout off at the mouth about, using his (Jefferson) name in vain to support narrow minded views, intolerance of other religions, and limiting freedom of choices.
There are no simplistic solutions to very complex problems. The "system" is imperfect, and depending on your perspective, can be viewed as more, or less, imperfect. If one chooses, he/she can go back to the "simple" life, and pay very little in taxes...when you have to spend ALL your time thinking about how you are going to feed, shelter, and clothe yourself, all other concerns in the world quickly fall away, as you are not afforded the luxury of thinking of much else.
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Topic: This Will Make Some Happy But (HOPEFULLY) Most Mad (Read 3797 times)