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[SilverDawg]

Ok, a tried and true thread, but one I need to ask again. 

For my Rocker C, with the 96 cu engine, would you go with the fuel pack, PCIII or SERT for a standard map? I plan to buy the V& H Big Radius pipes and a high flow A/C for this ride.  I read about these fuel management devices and with no internal mods planned to the engine, do you think it is ok to skip the SERT (expense) and go with a PC or FP to save some dough, but still get a good base remap?  Cost of the two are significantly less than the SERT and looks like I could do it myself, even with my limited skills .

[Talon]

I guess it would depend if you plan on getting it dyno'd or not. I'd stick with the PCIII or SERT. The PCIII should have a map available for your planed setup. The SERT won't have anything available for non HD pipes, you could probably find one from someone else that has a basic map for it, and if your having it dyno'd that wouldn't matter. If you plan on dynoing the bike afterwards, then use the unit that the tuner you pick is most confortable with tuning on. Either would be more than adequate for what you adding to your bike.

[SilverDawg]

thanks.

[sokesho]

Hay, I installed big radius pipes on my 07 FXDSE and used the fuel pack they recomended. It never responded well, ran hot and backfired. I had it installed and maped by a pro. Finaly went to my HD dealer and they installed a fuel pack and dynoed it. runs like hell, great power, responce and
sound. It was expensive but so was the bike. recomend you do the same.

any one want to buy a fuel pack.

[SilverDawg]

Hay, I installed big radius pipes on my 07 FXDSE and used the fuel pack they recomended. It never responded well, ran hot and backfired. I had it installed and maped by a pro. Finaly went to my HD dealer and they installed a fuel pack and dynoed it. runs like hell, great power, responce and
sound. It was expensive but so was the bike. recomend you do the same.

any one want to buy a fuel pack.

Do you mean, they installed a Race Tuner?

[Talon]

Hay, I installed big radius pipes on my 07 FXDSE and used the fuel pack they recomended. It never responded well, ran hot and backfired. I had it installed and maped by a pro. Finaly went to my HD dealer and they installed a fuel pack and dynoed it. runs like hell, great power, responce and
sound. It was expensive but so was the bike. recomend you do the same.

any one want to buy a fuel pack.

You must have gotten an SERT, the HD flash can't be dyno tuned.

I have a PCIII, just changed pipes and added a Doherty Power PACC, I didn't want to spend the $$$ yet for a dyno tune, not until I do the cams and other work. So I downloaded a map from their site, runs good. I could probably get it a little better with a dyno tune, but it's not bad for now.

[timo482]

the only problem with a pciii is the ox sensors are shut off by unit - so... all the altitude, air pressure changes, dirty air cleaner, bad gas problems that the O2 sensors adjust for - wont be adjusted for.

on pre 07 bikes - who cares - but on 07 and later... well.. 

dyno tests have shown that the 02's will adjust for quite a bit given a chance [more in fact than hd says they will] - aim had dyno charts on showing that a high flow air cleaner was spot on after 15 mins.. just bolt on and be patient. still would probably pay to get a stage 1 download - but sert may prove optional for minimal mods on 07 and later.

remember - your milage may vary and warranty wont cover squat once you get out of what is "epa legal"

to

[Midnight Rider]

CB...if you call FuelmotoUSA and talk to Jamie, he may have tuned a bike with your exact set up and can send you a PCIII already loaded with what you need. Jamie is a good guy to do business with, and they double the warranty on the Powercommander if you buy through them. The ECM will compensate for altitudes, even without the O2 sensors in the loop.

[SilverDawg]

Thanks Terry.

I did speak with someone at FuelMoto.  Very helpful folks.  Are you saying that with a PCIII, the O2 sensors are disabled or no longer needed?

I did see on FuelMoto's site that they will preprogram the commander based upon what you have for the bike.  That is pretty sweet.

[Talon]

the only problem with a xiii is the ox sensors are shut off by unit - so... all the altitude, air pressure changes, dirty air cleaner, bad gas problems that the O2 sensors adjust for - wont be adjusted for.

on Prue 07 bikes - who cares - but on 07 and later... well.. 

Dino tests have shown that the 02's will adjust for quite a bit given a chance [more in fact than hd says they will] - aim had Dino charts on showing that a high flow air cleaner was spot on after 15 Min's.. just bolt on and be patient. still would probably pay to get a stage 1 download - but sett may prove optional for minimal mods on 07 and later.

remember - your milage may vary and warranty wont cover squat once you get out of what is "EPA legal"

to

I have been told that the ECU is looking at this data from the narrow band O2 sensors to see if it can go back to the lean AFR of 14.7. So it not doing as much as people think, that is why the newer bikes are running so hot. To really get self adjustment you need wide band sensors. This was the premise of the Thundermax Autotune, it has been met with mixed reviews, because if the map isn't close to your build, the auto tune doesn't get you to the proper tune. Below is an article on this subject. I have never seen any info on the stock system doing much as far as a real auto tune. Just small changes in the AFR for cold start, and altitude changes.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hd2007HD_heat_00.htm

[Midnight Rider]

Thanks Terry.

I did speak with someone at FuelMoto.  Very helpful folks.  Are you saying that with a PCIII, the O2 sensors are disabled or no longer needed?

I did see on FuelMoto's site that they will preprogram the commander based upon what you have for the bike.  That is pretty sweet.

The o2 sensors are disabled, in effect.  I think Jamie even offers "packages" with pipes, PCIII, and loaded with the proper MAP.  If you change anything later, Jamie will e-mail you a new map to download, if he has one that matches the new configuration.

Every bike is a little different, so it won't be 100% "dialed in", but in most cases, it will be just fine.  I put one of his PCIII's on the Ultra back when I had the SE muffs on with high flow A/C and the HD ECM "flash" for that set up (they still did those back in 06 for $150 bucks), but always thought the flash was a little rich.  The PCIII Jamie sent me, worked a lot better....better drivability and throttle response.  When I did the RHTD's, I took the bike to a local guy who's a good tuner and got the bike dialed in for $200.

[SilverDawg]

Thanks for the response.  I ordered my V & H big radius a day or so ago.  They will most likely be here by mid-week  (Eastern Performance for $520 vs. dealer price of $680!!)  I have  brakcet on order from a guy on the HD forum site that adapts it to the wider swingarm on the Rockers.  If all goes well, by next weekend, I should have some sound out of my blue baby...

I installed the SE high flow A/C last night and took her for a spin.  Ran great.  I'll see what happens after the pipes go on and then determine if I go PCIII or have to step up to the SERT once again.

[Talon]

Thanks for the response.  I ordered my V & H big radius a day or so ago.  They will most likely be here by mid-week  (Eastern Performance for $520 vs. dealer price of $680!!)  I have  brakcet on order from a guy on the HD forum site that adapts it to the wider swingarm on the Rockers.  If all goes well, by next weekend, I should have some sound out of my blue baby...

I installed the SE high flow A/C last night and took her for a spin.  Ran great.  I'll see what happens after the pipes go on and then determine if I go PCIII or have to step up to the SERT once again.

Looks like there is a caned map for the PCIII on their web page for your bike. Most of these caned maps should be pretty close to the description, each bike is different, and altitude can cause them to be off a little. But mine is running fine, I'm going to have a local shop do a base line dyno run for $25 and see where I'm at. The map looks to be, M813-005.
Just be careful, those bikes are running lean/hot in stock form, you add pipes and A/C you'll be running even leaner.

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander_iii_usb/powercommander_all_downloads.aspx?mk=6&mdl=32&yr=2008