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Author Topic: Sport Bikes and the Military  (Read 3268 times)

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RedDevil

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2008, 08:02:32 PM »

So these Sailors and Marines that are killing themselves on these crotch rockets are all required to attend MSF prior to operating on base??

In order to get a base sticker for their motorcycles a sailor/marine has to show proof of attending an acredited MSF course.  When I was on active duty Navy I taught the Navy/Marine Corps MSF course in Norfolk, VA from 1985 -1996.  The requirement is only if they are attempting to get a base sticker to bring their motorcycles on base.  If they buy a motorcycle and only drive it off base, there was no requirement.  However, if they got in an accident (in the military, you're government property 24/7) and didn't have the training on record, they could be determined to have a "not in the line of duty" accident and therefore the military would not pay any of their medical bills and then could be brought up on charges for "destruction of government property".  I saw a few sailors have this happen to them. 

  :devil:
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REGGAB

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2008, 09:09:14 PM »

Guys,  I work on a Navy base here in PA.  With 25 years riding experience I still had to take a MSF course before I could get a pass to ride my scooter on base...  I wonder if this applies to all military bases?

I can't speak to other Branches of Service, but as for the Army and it's installations, even if you are a Retiree, you must take and pass the MSF ERC or equivalent course of instruction prior to issuance of a DoD and expiry decal.  Further, to ride on an Army installation, one must wear the prescribed PPE including a DOT/Snell helmet, gloves, long sleeves, trousers, over the ankle boots, and depending on the installation (Redstone Arsenal is one), during all hours, one must wear a reflective belt.  Some installations, like Ft. Rucker, require bright clothing during the hours from BMNT to BENT and a reflective belt between the hours of BENT to BMNT.  At all times while riding on an Army installation, one must carry their MSF card or other proof of rider education.
Still......does absolutely nothing to fix stupid.  That is a permanent ailment.
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FNGw/08SERK

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2008, 09:13:10 PM »

I can't speak to other Branches of Service, but as for the Army and it's installations, even if you are a Retiree, you must take and pass the MSF ERC or equivalent course of instruction prior to issuance of a DoD and expiry decal.  Further, to ride on an Army installation, one must wear the prescribed PPE including a DOT/Snell helmet, gloves, long sleeves, trousers, over the ankle boots, and depending on the installation (Redstone Arsenal is one), during all hours, one must wear a reflective belt.  Some installations, like Ft. Rucker, require bright clothing during the hours from BMNT to BENT and a reflective belt between the hours of BENT to BMNT.  At all times while riding on an Army installation, one must carry their MSF card or other proof of rider education.
Still......does absolutely nothing to fix stupid.  That is a permanent ailment.
I agree and still am of the mindset that these bikes are too accessible!!
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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2008, 02:42:22 PM »

From CNN.com: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/30/marine.motorcycles/index.html
Marine motorcycle deaths top their Iraq combat fatalities

 QUANTICO, Virginia (CNN) -- Motorcycle accidents have killed more Marines in the past 12 months than enemy fire in Iraq, a rate that's so alarming it has prompted top brass to call a meeting to address the issue, officials say.
Twenty-five Marines have died in motorcycle crashes since last November -- all but one of them involving sport bikes that can reach speeds of well over 100 mph, according to Marine officials. In that same period, 20 Marines have been killed in action in Iraq.
The 25 deaths are the highest motorcycle death toll ever for the Marine Corps.

Gen. James Amos, the assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, told CNN that commanders are trying to drill down on what "we need to do to help our Marines survive on these sport bikes."
"The Marines are very serious about it," he said.

Marine Gunnery Sgt. Art Tucker knows all too well about the dangers of sport bikes. An owner of a Kawasaki Ninja, Tucker has had two crashes, and the second one nearly killed him.
Despite crashes, Gunnery Sgt. Art Tucker rides a sport motorcycle. "I enjoy it. ... It relaxes me," he says.
"I sustained a broken collar bone, I tore the shoulder out of the socket, I tore three ligaments in the shoulder, the rotator cuff, I broke three vertebrae," said Tucker, a drill instructor for new officers.
"The worst was a head injury I received: a bruised brain. And it caused hemorrhaging, and from that I had partial paralysis of the left leg, full paralysis of the left foot and toes, and that was for approximately six months."

Amos said he and other top Marine officials will spend half the day Monday "focusing on nothing but motorcycle issues." The commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James Conway, and other senior leadership will attend the meeting at the Quantico, Virginia, Marine base, he said.
About 18,000 of the nearly 200,000 Marines are believed to own motorcycles, Amos said.

The Marines have taken some measures. The Marine Corps has had a long-standing policy for all Marines who ride motorcycles to take a mandatory basic riding course. More recently, it added a second training course specifically designed to train Marines who ride sport bikes.
Any Marine caught riding, even on leave, without going through the training courses faces Marine Corps punishment, officials say.
On a recent day at the Quantico training track, Marines whizzed by on their bikes.

"I think the basic rider course has been great," said Cpl. Austin Oakley. "Here, they put you in situations you want to be wary of out in that open road."
Oakley said he recently returned to the United States from Japan, and he immediately jumped at the chance to buy a sport bike. He said it's not uncommon for Marines to have motorcycle clubs within their units.
"We'll go out on rides together. Fridays for lunchtime, we'll all meet up and go to lunch," Oakley said. "When I get on my motorcycle, it's me and the motorcycle. I don't need to go fast. I don't need to do anything like that. It's just being free."

The rise in motorcycle deaths isn't confined to Marines. The Navy says it's had 33 deaths on motorcycles over the past 12 months -- a 65 percent jump from the previous time period. And authorities say motorcycle deaths have been a problem in the civilian world, too.

Military officials say they're not sure why the deaths are on the rise. They initially believed the accidents might involve mostly young Marines and sailors around 18 or 19 years old. But Navy statistics show that five of the victims were 25, the most prevalent of any age involved in the crashes. And two 40-year-old sailors were killed in motorcycle crashes.

Gen. Amos said the Marines have seen a similar trend.
But he says the new training seems to be working: Of the 300 young men and women who have gone through the sport-bike course, only three have had accidents.
The safety course instructors said some Marines who go through the training decide the sport bike is not for them.
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But even some Marines who've survived past crashes still want to ride again, even after they get the new training.
"I enjoy it," said Tucker. "I can actually get on my motorcycle and ride, and it's just like if I were to do bowling or rock climbing or scuba diving. It's something for me. It relaxes me."
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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2008, 11:03:32 PM »

From CNN.com: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/30/marine.motorcycles/index.html
Marine motorcycle deaths top their Iraq combat fatalities

 QUANTICO, Virginia (CNN) -- ...
Gen. James Amos, the assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, ...


This is one of the finest gentlemen and greatest American I have ever met. He used to live here in Beaufort and I had the privilege to know him and his wife.

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2008, 07:16:20 PM »

Guys,  I work on a Navy base here in PA.  With 25 years riding experience I still had to take a MSF course before I could get a pass to ride my scooter on base...  I wonder if this applies to all military bases?

For the Navy the MSF course is a must to bring a bike on base, and has been that way since the 80's.  This evern applies to retired military people wanting to bring the bike on base.

Further more if your active duty, and never bring the bike on base, and get in a wreck, and do not have the MSF course, they can refuse to pay your medical.  They can even charge you will failure to follow orders and distruction of government property.

Also to ride on base, even if retired you must have a bright orange vest and wear long sleaves, gloves and all other personal protection plus helmet.
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marshall10

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2008, 08:23:51 PM »

It's not just sport bike personnel. Here at Ft. Bliss we have had several soldiers and officers have accidents on their Harleys. We even had one that hit a VAN!!! The bike was traveling in excess of 80 mph when he struck the side of the van (posted speed limit was 35). The collision moved the van some 15 yards, setting it on fire. The motorcyclist was pronounced D.O.A. There have been other reports of soldiers running their hogs into the back of semi trailers. Usually these people are returning from a recent deployment and buy a motorcycle. My belief, and the belief of others, is that these soldiers have undocumented PTSD and are quite literally addicted to the rush. While sport bikes are relatively cheap, insurance excluded, one does not need to go over 5 MPH to die on a motorcycle if the conditions are fitting. And while at Ft. Bliss all personnel are required to attend a MSF course, wear full finger gloves, DOT approved helmet, bright(day) reflective(night) clothing, long sleeves, long pants, and over the ankle shoes many take this PPE off after they leave the base. The problem isn't what type of scoot one rides, the problem is the attitude one takes when they saddle up. More needs to be invested in promoting the right attitude towards riding. And while the MSF course is good, more needs to be done to teach our service men and women ho to properly, and safely, operate our bikes and how to push them so that we may better avoid crashes when the time for that action occurs.
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hard10

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2008, 07:40:00 AM »

Another interesting article on the subject:

http://www.beaufortgazette.com/local/story/615454.html

Sean M Cary

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2008, 10:06:36 AM »

We had another wreck/death this weekend...
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HUBBARD

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2008, 10:47:25 AM »

Very interesting reading.  After taking it all in, and thinking about all the stupid chit I've done on a Motorsickle, only the Man Upstairs knows why I'm still here.  I've been very, very lucky.  After that near death experience in Maggie Valley this past September, and the thoughts I've had about that, and taking in this topic, I must change my riding habits.  One's luck, eventually, does run out.  So...........you bunch of redneck, Motorsickle ridin' hotrodders need to cease and desist f**king with me when I'm on Ol' Maudie!  I mean it!  I ain't playin', either!  >:( Later--HUBBARD 
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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2008, 12:10:02 PM »

Very interesting reading.  After taking it all in, and thinking about all the stupid chit I've done on a Motorsickle, only the Man Upstairs knows why I'm still here.  I've been very, very lucky.  After that near death experience in Maggie Valley this past September, and the thoughts I've had about that, and taking in this topic, I must change my riding habits.  One's luck, eventually, does run out.  So...........you bunch of redneck, Motorsickle ridin' hotrodders need to cease and desist f**king with me when I'm on Ol' Maudie!  I mean it!  I ain't playin', either!  >:( Later--HUBBARD 

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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2008, 09:09:27 AM »

The Air Force also requires MSF courses for all military and DOD civilians(if they want to ride on base).  It is highly recommended for retirees.

With the military technically "on duty" 24-7, they are supposed to have some kind of MSF course to ride off base even if they don't have any plans to ride on base.
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Re: Sport Bikes and the Military
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2008, 03:34:02 PM »

The Air Force also requires MSF courses for all military and DOD civilians(if they want to ride on base).  It is highly recommended for retirees.

With the military technically "on duty" 24-7, they are supposed to have some kind of MSF course to ride off base even if they don't have any plans to ride on base.
here at ft. bliss the MSF course is available for all military members free of charge, one just has to sign up for it.
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