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Author Topic: Top end tick when hot  (Read 3373 times)

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djl

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2010, 04:04:09 PM »

The 54 cam is a quiet cam, doubt that cams are the source of the noise and the geometry is not radical so I think you can eliminate the cams as the source of the noise.  However, there are several other sources like liftre pre-load; rocker arm clearance in the support; pushrod contact with tube; weak lifters, etc.  If yoiu have eliminated all other possible sources of the tick, the Woods lifters will likely solve the problem.  I know of two all bore 107s running fairly aggressive cams that had serious valve train noise. The owner/builders chased the noise for months and eliminated every possible cause of valve train noise with very limited sucess.  Woods lifters eliminated the noise in both cases.  Roller rockers are noisier than stock and the rollers can still be heard working but it's a "quiet" kind of noise, if you know what I mean.  The kind that you are not sure if you are hearing it or not, sort of like white noise; if you are not really listening, you don't hear it.  Point is, the Woods lifters will eliminate valve train noise; personal experience speaking and confirmed by several others on other forums.  They are not cheap so it is important to eliminate all other possibilities before the lifters
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Mr D

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2010, 04:25:14 PM »

The 54 cam is a quiet cam, doubt that cams are the source of the noise and the geometry is not radical so I think you can eliminate the cams as the source of the noise.  However, there are several other sources like liftre pre-load; rocker arm clearance in the support; pushrod contact with tube; weak lifters, etc.  If yoiu have eliminated all other possible sources of the tick, the Woods lifters will likely solve the problem.  I know of two all bore 107s running fairly aggressive cams that had serious valve train noise. The owner/builders chased the noise for months and eliminated every possible cause of valve train noise with very limited sucess.  Woods lifters eliminated the noise in both cases.  Roller rockers are noisier than stock and the rollers can still be heard working but it's a "quiet" kind of noise, if you know what I mean.  The kind that you are not sure if you are hearing it or not, sort of like white noise; if you are not really listening, you don't hear it.  Point is, the Woods lifters will eliminate valve train noise; personal experience speaking and confirmed by several others on other forums.  They are not cheap so it is important to eliminate all other possibilities before the lifters

Good Info  :2vrolijk_21:

Welcome,

Introduce yourself in the New member section when you can  :2vrolijk_21:
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2010, 04:34:05 PM »

Totally agree

The 110 motor has a few more potential snafus too.
Sticking (nearly siezed) Ex valves hitting piston
Piston fit, slap noise can be confused with valvetrain
retainer to lower box clearance. The SE 175# springs have a high big retainer that gets very close when the boxes and supports are centered, which is essential.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 06:47:01 PM by Deweysheads »
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keno

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2010, 10:55:20 PM »

Did you bring the bike back to the dealer or are you you going to? opposed of you going down that bunny trail to find the fix?
Dealer said its NORMAL, said 110's are noisy?
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2010, 11:40:37 PM »

Of course it is normal

Normality (behavior), conformance to an average

The "normal" statement cracks me up because basic logic would have us believe then that they are all screwed up.  :bananarock:
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grc

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2010, 09:04:58 AM »

Dealer said its NORMAL, said 110's are noisy?

Normal is a highly overused term, especially at your friendly Harley store.  A better term would be "acceptable", as in "all this mechanical thrashing is totally acceptable in our opinion".  I've seen plenty of "normal" things, defined as the average condition, that are totally unacceptable.  If you produce and sell 1000 defective parts, for instance, you can honestly tell your customers that what they have is "normal".  Harley has been pulling that crap for ages.  Believe anything they tell you at your own peril.


Jerry
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Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

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keno

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2010, 10:25:33 PM »

You Know....I LOVE my ride....I have had many bikes over the years and could barley afford to ride them, now I have the iron horse I thought I would never have and can afford it...I love my ride but have the rattle at 2200 RPM, I asked the dealer if I could pay them to get rid of it...PAY them...and they said, no...it is the nature of the beast. Hmmm.
Still love the bike, best bike I have had so far...TIC...TIC...:)
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grc

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2010, 11:21:08 PM »

You Know....I LOVE my ride....I have had many bikes over the years and could barley afford to ride them, now I have the iron horse I thought I would never have and can afford it...I love my ride but have the rattle at 2200 RPM, I asked the dealer if I could pay them to get rid of it...PAY them...and they said, no...it is the nature of the beast. Hmmm.
Still love the bike, best bike I have had so far...TIC...TIC...:)

Noise issues can be very tough, since they are subjective at best and open to interpretation.  Five different people on this site could listen to a particular engine and probably come away with five different opinions of what the cause is and whether or not it was acceptable.  So far one dealership has told you "it's the nature of the beast" and won't attempt to fix it.  I suggest you get another opinion from another dealership, and then call H-D and ask for an appointment with a service rep.  The rep may not be any better than the typical dealership person when it comes to tech ability or honesty, but it's necessary to give them as much rope as it takes.  Get all these opinions in writing and file them away with the rest of your documentation for the bike.  After they all tell you there is nothing wrong with the bike, ride it and don't worry about it.  If it fails later, take your documentation and do what you have to do.

Funny thing about the quick answers from dealerships and from H-D.  Normal, they all do that, nature of the beast, etc., if it's true then every single one that they roll out should do the same thing.  We've already heard from people who had dealers fire up another 110 right beside theirs and compare, and found that the other bike didn't make the same noise.  We've also heard from some who took it upon themselves to tear into their engines, or somehow convinced their dealers to do so, and look for the problem.  Tapered cylinders, bad lifters, etc. have been found by some, and of course back in the beginning there were plenty of valve spring retainers hitting rocker boxes (another "normal" condition until they were forced to tear some down and saw the witness marks).

I don't know of any foolproof answer to the lack of response from the dealers and from H-D.  Sometimes polite but persistent works with H-D, sometimes it takes getting a little nasty, and sometimes nothing helps.  When you buy a product from a company that doesn't care about customer service and has a history of blowing off customers with legitimate issues, I don't know that there is an easy answer.  When enough of us refuse to buy another one perhaps things will change.


Jerry
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Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

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Texas 103

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Re: Top end tick when hot
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2010, 11:47:18 PM »

Start by checking the easy stuff first.  Check for leaks at the exhaust ports; an exhaust leak can sound just like a mechanical tick and will definitely vary with rpm.  Same applies to a compression leak at the head gasket.

As noted by Unbalanced, if you used adjustable pushrods, recheck the adjustment and the security of the locknuts.

Harley's lifters haven't done real well on the 110 engines.  Maybe old and tired tooling, maybe not designed to deal with the heavier valve springs in the 110 heads, who really knows, but many folks have in fact had problems with lifters. 


Jerry

Loose ARC will make that noise also...
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