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[Cowboy2]

Hello Friends, Greetings from Australia..   
Now I am an Engineering Tinkerer, Inventor for my Business, see if this idea flys as I don't have a stock exhaust to look at right now.  My CVO Street Glide is all V&H Power Duals, and I gave away the stock CVO exhaust on my Ultra now sold... He took the stock one too... Dumb of me..  Anyway, see if you think this idea flys:

Last night, thinking about the performance of the V&H Power Duals, with the venturi effect that helps "extract" the exhaust from the cleaning cylinder on the firing stroke of the other cylinder... Those of you into the engineering of a 4 stroke cleaning cycle will know what I mean..  The "Venturi Effect" seems to actually work, helping to suck out the exhaust on the cleaning stroke cycle as the compression stroke (firing) cylinder exhausts...    That is why Power Duals Dyno higher HP that just about any other extractor pipes..   The problem is that I like the look of the V&H Dresser Duals better, on my BIG BLUE 2011.5 coming...

Now here is the crazy idea I thought of last night:  There is NO cross-over so no VENTURI EFFECT on the Dresser Duals, people report a little less power, and V&H got back me with some Engineering.  They said:      "You will lose 3 horse power by choosing the Dresser Duals over the Power Duals."     Now the Stock OEM pipes do have a cross-over.   They have to for that bloody flap to work.  It would be nice to have the Dresser Duals look PLUS a cross-over for the Venturi Effect.  Without going extractor pipes shopping, I though why not Mod the existing pipes?  The Cats (Catalytic converters) can come out, like brittle ceramic wafer that rams out with a rod.  Mark the cross over pipe under the frame, for easy re-assembly, then: Cut the crossover pipe where it goes under the frame, ram out the Cat in crumbles, and then TIG Weld it shut on the marks for alignment.  The other Cat, is a straight shot in the pipe to ram out so not a problem...   Then take a hole saw and cut out the whole flapper assembly clean, and TIG a stainless plate over the hole.   

Then I have that Dresser Duals look WITH A VENTURI cross over, with stock pipes,  for only the cost of elbow grease and the TIG welding stainless.    What do you think?  Can anyone shoot holes in my Theory?

All the best from Oz,  Cowboy

[Midnight Rider]

....or, you can just buy the Fullsac X Pipe header (it's ceramic coated), gut the stock mufflers, and order the Fullsac baffles to go in the stock cans.  I know from previous posts that you like LOUD, so get the 2.25" baffles, plus the TTS Mastertune, and one of Steve's (Fullsac) already done MAPs for your bike.

[Cowboy2]

I don't even know if they are available over here...

Shipping is the KILLER....  I have heard a lot about this set up, and will ask if it is available or Google it..  We are the Mother of Invention here, because we are 10,000 miles remote and every thing is Sea Freight for about two-three months or Air Freight and cost you your arm and leg in $$$$$$$$$$...

That is why the Engineering idea with the stock pipes... What do you think, would it work?  Or am I the lone Ranger again out experimenting....

God Bless America, we owe a great deal of our Freedom to you....    And Im not ridin no Rice Grinder...

[BUBBLEHEAD]

Getting the cat out of the stock pipe isn't as hard as your thinking. The cat is in the boxy section of the header just cut the whole thing in half, get all the cat material out and re weld. no patches no big deal really.  There was a thread on here before with pictures of the process.

[Cowboy2]

Thank you for that Bubblehead,

I was told, (possibly incorrectly) that there was a cat in each pipe, and you had to cut and shut the crossover under the frame to accomplish this...  What about the flapper, any input on that?

I am settled on the Dresser Duals look from V&H, but the stock pipes are very close to that look.  If my idea works, why spend the money?  I can afford to just buy the V&H, but I am a Tinkerer, Old School Bike Builder, and other Brothers might benefit from this engineering to save the $$ and still get "The Look"...

Any more help?

Thanks in advance, Cowboy in Oz

[BUBBLEHEAD]

I was told, (possibly incorrectly) that there was a cat in each pipe, and you had to cut and shut the crossover under the frame to accomplish this...  What about the flapper, any input on that?

If you look at the stock pipe you have two downtubes a box and two outlets cut the box remove the cat. I have never seen or heard of this Flapper thing. Do you still have your stock Headpipe from your SG? Same pipe as BB.

[RedDevil]

Cowboy,
The international version still has the flapper valve even with the CAT installed? I didn't know that.  If so, it used to shut off the left muffler and create a 2 into 1 effect, if that's still the case then I would think it's located just forward of the left muffler or in the cross-over tube and should be easily removed.  The CAT, as was stated earlier, is not in each pipe, it actually fills the whole collector box, so if you cut that in half, chip out the CAT material, and weld it back together, you'll have a stock 2 into 1 into 2.  That's what I did to my SEURG, and really like how it turned out.

[Cowboy2]

HEY RED DEVIL,
Good to hear from you...  No, on my Ultra the flapper was on the RIGHT side, now that means sitting on the bike, right hand down...  That is not the deal on your American Harley???   I would be surprised and cannot see the reason for that !!!!  

IF that is true, they they are making as set for the International shipping and I just cannot see the reason.. Have a look again at yours will ya?  

Now I have not cut and shut, but they tell me the Cat for the left is in the crossover part under the frame and that is why it is not easily removed.  You can ram it out of the straight section on the right hand side, but the left has it past the 90 degree angle coming and going...  make sense now?  Flapper closed means two into one at an idle and in our case it is out the left under the frame so there has to be two Cats..

Gosh, I would really be surprised if they made a special exhaust pipe for the International market, it would just not make sense.  Unless it has to do with Right Hand Drive and us driving on the left side of the highway in each direction..?.  exhaust exiting on the left sidr when at an idle means on our side standing next to the bike on the left side?  Gosh that would be SHOCKING if they went to that expense...   At an idle, right hand pipe is shut off, exhaust is on the left on our bikes...  Does not make any sense...  Unless the two to one has to be on the left side, we would be stopped on the Left hand side, and at an idle the forced flapper shut would mean exhaust on the Driver side of the bike as he was standing on the left, pulled off on the left side of the road...  Oh Man!!!  Confusing heh??    

Could that be possible???  Must be if your flapper at an idle forces it out the right, as you would be standing on the right side of the road driving on the right hand lane?    OH cannot be... Can it???

HO, I am getting a headache over this one... heh he

[BUBBLEHEAD]

Cowboy this should be an easy one. What came on your streetglide? Head pipes are the same between the two bikes. HD isn't going to spend any money that they don't have too, Whatever you got on the OB expect pretty much the same on BB as far as Head pipes go.

[Cowboy2]

You know Bubblehead, I can't remember?  Terrible.  I ended up putting the SESG SE exhaust on my Ultra to sell it... And gave away the stock exhaust of the Ultra with it when it sold.. Dumb, yea I know... 

I cannot remember what the CVO SESG exhaust was like but it did not have the flapper I don't think.. Because I unhooked and stored the one on my Ultra and did not hook it back up when I installed the CVO Screaming Eagle headers and SE Slash down pipes on it...   But I do remember my 103 Ultra stock pipes because I had to disconnect the flap, and it had the flap (butterfly valve) on the right hand back side, and the cross over under the frame, cats supposedly in both..  On my SESG I took off the whole exhast and put on the V&H Powerduals and the S.E. version of Super Trap, that I modified and removed the discs from and turned it around and made a straight 50mm (2")  shot out the back of the pipe like this with the polished stainless cone opened up and turned around, black trim disc removed:

[RedDevil]

HEY RED DEVIL,
Good to hear from you...  No, on my Ultra the flapper was on the RIGHT side, now that means sitting on the bike, right hand down...  That is not the deal on your American Harley???   I would be surprised and cannot see the reason for that !!!!  

IF that is true, they they are making as set for the International shipping and I just cannot see the reason.. Have a look again at yours will ya?  

Cowboy,
We don't have the flapper valve in our exhausts here in the states.  I thought it was only on the European version, but now find out it's on the Aussie version also, so must be on all International bikes (but don't know about Canadian, as I've never heard anyone say anything about a flapper valve on their Canadian bike.  )  Interesting that it's on the right side too...sheesh, it just doesn't make sense to have the valve with the CAT installed.

[Cowboy2]

Hello Red Devil,

I do not think, or at least remember, pretty sure no flapper in my CVO...  But what about the standard Ultra Classic Electroglide in America?  My 103 Ultra definitely had one... I know, I remember disconnecting it... And I remember looking up the tube and playing with it to figure out how to lock it open...  My CVO was a bit modded on the Showroom floor, and they could have removed it.. 

Anyway, with no flapper, that FURTHER increases the idea of taking the cats out of the existing stock pipes.  According to HD Australia, there are two and the one that is hard to get to is in the cross over under the frame.  Before I cut and shut, I am still thinking of trying to make up a roto-rooter sort of tool on a drill to go up there and grind it out...     I don't mind the look of the stock CVO pipes, and after thinking about it and talking with HD about the tyranny of distance in getting Inspection Stations here in Oz, I don't think it is going to happen...

Right now I am thinking Ex Cat gut the pipes and look to mod the baffles in the stock 4" mufflers, all for sound sake to get some thump...  heh he...  I mean performance is important to, but the thump is the big blind spot safety issue for me.  I have never actually remember the sound of the stock CVO exhaust, but I know the cats seemed to muffle it and eliminate the deep thump ground pounder I like... heh he..

[RedDevil]

Hello Red Devil,

I do not think, or at least remember, pretty sure no flapper in my CVO...  But what about the standard Ultra Classic Electroglide in America?  My 103 Ultra definitely had one... I know, I remember disconnecting it... And I remember looking up the tube and playing with it to figure out how to lock it open...  My CVO was a bit modded on the Showroom floor, and they could have removed it.. 

Cowboy,
The servo controlled valve was only in the international pipes.  We've never had that in the states.  In fact the CATs just started showing up standard in all touring models in 2010.  The CVOs had CATs in the pipes when the 110 came out in 2007.  I remember that the P&A catalog had an exhaust that you could buy after market that had a servo controlled flapper in the front of the left muffler so the rider could  shut off the left muffler for 2 into 1 performance and then open it back up for around town to get the 2 into 2 sound.  Novel idea, but I guess it didn't take off here as it's not offered anymore. 

[Cowboy2]

Cool,
Amazing as I would not think they would change the pipes like that for over here...

My plan now is to clean up the original pipes, remove cats, and work on the original mufflers to see if I can remove the baffles to open it up...

Will post when it arrives... Yuck, now I have to just shelve this as it is about 8 weeks away minimum...  And counting...