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[cvobiker]

Good Stuff right there!

Yes Sir, I agree   

[CVOThunder]

I must be good at bringing back old threads. Curious about the cast vs forged cranks/wheels. I'm curious if S&S offers forged wheels for the TC. I'm sure they do but I'm getting blocked. I am however finding the Jim's flywheels over on phat performance. So my main question is, do you need to weld up the aftermarket wheels? If you do weld up a crank and wish to rebuild it later on, are you out of luck or can you grind out the welds and then reweld after replacing the bearing/pin? I guess at that point if you have cast wheels you'd be thinking about going to forged anyway so might be a mute point. Can you reweld forged wheels or would it change the molecular structure too much. Can you cryo the entire assembly?

[strokerjlk]

I must be good at bringing back old threads. Curious about the cast vs forged cranks/wheels. I'm curious if S&S offers forged wheels for the TC. I'm sure they do but I'm getting blocked. I am however finding the Jim's flywheels over on phat performance. So my main question is, do you need to weld up the aftermarket wheels? If you do weld up a crank and wish to rebuild it later on, are you out of luck or can you grind out the welds and then reweld after replacing the bearing/pin? I guess at that point if you have cast wheels you'd be thinking about going to forged anyway so might be a mute point. Can you reweld forged wheels or would it change the molecular structure too much. Can you cryo the entire assembly?

FWIW if you want to add the extra insurance to the bottom end? just plug it.
John Hoban just plugs them most of the time. he told me the welds are for guys that have to see it welded to have peace of mind. he will weld them ,but says it really isnt necessary.
there are a few shops that weld them with success and some just butcher them up,so be careful if you decide to weld them.
had a guy in for a tune a while back,nice 124 ci bike. he had a 106 before he went 124. crank was welded. it didnt last a season before it broke the welds and shifted.
we can speculate as what happened but who knows.
what I worry about more than the crank shifting is the output shaft on the motor bending. some of these auto tensioners (primary chain) are so banjo tight that they bend the output shaft,(out of round) then take out the 6 th gear bearing in the tranny.

[CVOThunder]

What is plugging? I was thinking it was malory metal for balancing but...

I'll do a search and see what I can find but if you have a thread link that would be cool. Thanks for the reply on my last post.

[grc]

What is plugging? I was thinking it was malory metal for balancing but...

I'll do a search and see what I can find but if you have a thread link that would be cool. Thanks for the reply on my last post.

Go to this site, either email or call them for specific answers:
http://www.darkhorsecrankworks.com/html/contact.html

I'm no expert on their system, but I can give you a rough idea of what plugging is.  Look at the crankpin in your stock crankshaft assembly and you will note that the ends of the crankpin that press into the flywheels are hollow.  If you were to install an oversize plug into that hole, you would increase the force on the joint between the flywheel and the crank pin. 


Jerry

[CVOThunder]

Oh hey, that makes perfectly good sense. Basically increasing the interference fit.

Thank you Jerry!

[Half_Crazy]

If you have the cases split and the crankshaft in your hands... then you just plug it and re-install... Isn't that like quitting high school 2 months before graduation? If it was me, once the cases were split it'd get the whole 9 yards.

[CVOThunder]

Yeah same here. Especially after adding the plug and throwing off the balance. Those 4 Rev Performance videos on trueing the flywheels were pretty informative. Not sure if there are other schools of thought on the processes involved but made sense to me. I still need to download a bunch more of their videos and see what else they have to show us.

[strokerjlk]

Call john at darkhorse.let him explain it.
when i split black diamonds 117  cases and seen it was plugged and not welded,I called to see about welding it since that is all the rage. He explained why he would rather not weld them unless the guy just absolutely insists. Fwiw it had 35,000 miles on it then.probably has over 45,000 on it now.

[grc]

If you have the cases split and the crankshaft in your hands... then you just plug it and re-install... Isn't that like quitting high school 2 months before graduation? If it was me, once the cases were split it'd get the whole 9 yards.

I would never suggest anyone just plug the crankpin and stick the crank back in the cases.  Plugging should be done as part of the total crank service, which includes truing and balancing, and not just as a stand-alone process. 

What would be really nice is if H-D would follow the lead of most of the rest of the world and chuck that pressed crankshaft design for a one piece crank and automotive style rods.  Most of the motorcycle industry did that many decades ago.  Even S&S went to a one piece crank on their latest engine design. 


Jerry

[cvobiker]

I would never suggest anyone just plug the crankpin and stick the crank back in the cases.  Plugging should be done as part of the total crank service, which includes truing and balancing, and not just as a stand-alone process. 

What would be really nice is if H-D would follow the lead of most of the rest of the world and chuck that pressed crankshaft design for a one piece crank and automotive style rods.  Most of the motorcycle industry did that many decades ago.  Even S&S went to a one piece crank on their latest engine design. 


Jerry

I'm all for that idea. 

[CVOThunder]

Been wondering that myself and I don't understand hanging on to the knife and fork rod idea. Nastalgia is one thing but there's a limit to being stubborn. I have to think it's to support all of the side businesses that make a living off of H-D design flaws. If the engines were perfect then a lot of business and alure of owning an H-D would slowly die off.

While I'm still trying to get back into the H-D mindset, I do have to think that the Star 113ci engine is a pretty ruggedly built engine. Out of the box my Raider puts out 85 rwhp, 105lbft and with the same mods I've put on my bagger (simple exh, air and EFI) it's pretty easy to get 95 rwhp and 120lbft. Add a 60shot of NOS on a stock bottom end and you're sitting at 154hp and 211lbft. But the problem is very few companies make any engine parts except maybe a 120 kit. Cams are all custom made, head work is just now coming on line and custom conn rods need to be made if Supercharging it. I know H-D can't follow this engine just because the Japanese have built it but damn...do something closer to a modern engine. I guess it's all about keeping the engine without external return lines and a very clean look which H-D does in spades. I just don't see how moving that back jug over far enough to allow side by side rods would detract from the look and engine design is about the only "liberal" bone in my body. It would be nice to think that my American built engine is the most reliable and powerful engine ever built for it's class. Don't see that happening anytime soon.