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[hd-51]

2001 SERG rebuilt at 48000, at 96000 lifter goes taking cams out hopefully that is all. What causes this and how can it be avoided.

[HD Street Performance]

Use premium lifters, use premium oil changed at proper intervals, keep the pressure on the lifter reasonable, that comes from proper valve spring pressure, valve train weight and camshaft design.

[sadunbar]

2001 SERG rebuilt at 48000, at 96000 lifter goes taking cams out hopefully that is all. What causes this and how can it be avoided.

Sounds like your motor is stock?  Generally speaking, the weak link in lifters are the roller bearings in the wheel.  If your motor is stock - and assuming no other internal failures have occurred (like cam chain tensioners degrading) regular oil/filter changes usually are sufficient maintenance to preserve lifter life.

[hd-51]

Bike is far from stock. Fueling lifters, 570 ss cams, 10.5 to 1 pistons, head and tb worked, ss crank. Oil is amsoil changed at least every 2500 miles. Short of opening up the motor from time to time to check for these type of failures that is why I asked if there is a way of telling ahead of time. Thanks for the input.

[Twolanerider]

Bike is far from stock. Fueling lifters, 570 ss cams, 10.5 to 1 pistons, head and tb worked, ss crank. Oil is amsoil changed at least every 2500 miles. Short of opening up the motor from time to time to check for these type of failures that is why I asked if there is a way of telling ahead of time. Thanks for the input.

Short of physically checking the only tell tale is the sound. 

Which Feuling lifters?  Their standard HP+ lifter has always seemed a good and long lived part.  Their more expensive "race" version has seen a few failures just within the group here.

[sadunbar]

Bike is far from stock. Fueling lifters, 570 ss cams, 10.5 to 1 pistons, head and tb worked, ss crank. Oil is amsoil changed at least every 2500 miles. Short of opening up the motor from time to time to check for these type of failures that is why I asked if there is a way of telling ahead of time. Thanks for the input.

Well - that changes things.     I pull my camchest apart every winter to inspect everything.  Usually everything is fine, but when it isn't, it's generally lifters that get replaced.  Never because of a failure, but because of signs of potential future failure, such as rough spots in the roller rotation or excessive looseness of the roller. Perhaps overkill on my part to check so often, but then again, it's a simple check, and I've never experienced a catastrophic lifter failure.  I run S&S lifters, but also like Woods directional lifters and Feuling standard HP+ lifters.

[Twolanerider]

Well - that changes things.     I pull my camchest apart every winter to inspect everything.  Usually everything is fine, but when it isn't, it's generally lifters that get replaced.  Never because of a failure, but because of signs of potential future failure, such as rough spots in the roller rotation or excessive looseness of the roller. Perhaps overkill on my part to check so often, but then again, it's a simple check, and I've never experienced a catastrophic lifter failure.  I run S&S lifters, but also like Woods directional lifters and Feuling standard HP+ lifters.

And what else are you going to do with the bike.  It's usually freaking cold up there.  By the way, it's 60 something here today and I'm playing a little hookie (hookey, hooky  ?).

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

2001 SERG rebuilt at 48000, at 96000 lifter goes taking cams out hopefully that is all. What causes this and how can it be avoided.

May consider pulling/inspecting them @ 25,000 as service bulletins reccomended, back in the Evo days.
Scott

[Bigjim1661]

We use the lifters from AMS and we have had great success. Here is the text from their website...

From 1999 - 2001, Johnson-Hylift supplied lifters to Harley-Davidson...
Johnson-Hylift designed and produced a special piston and valve body
to work across the temp ranges and varying oil psi typically encountered
on a Harley engine. Since 2001, in a cost-savings move, HD has used
Delphi hydraulic lifters, which explains Harley's p/n change from
18538-99 to 18538-99A, and after some problems, a second Delphi lifter
was used, p/n 18538-99B. However, Delphi still did not use a 0.655"
hi-volume / hi-pressure plunger and valve body like those specifically
designed for Harley by Johnson-Hylift. After some research AMS learned
Delphi 18538-99B lifters bleed down rather quickly due to the
higher engine temps and heavy valve spring pressure found on most
Harley Twin Cam's.  The oil reservoir inside the lifter is too small,
allowing the lifter to clatter, and likely causes many Twin-Cam bikes
to be noisy. Note: ALL lifters bleed off during operation and even
more-so when the bikes sits, engine off.


Tom at AMS has known Chet Starron, who owns Johnson-Hylift, for many
years. Chet put Tom in touch with the original engineer of the earlier HD
18538-99 lifters, which don't seem to be as noisy as those made by Delphi.
Working with Hylift' engineering staff, AMS modified a Johnson-Hylift lifter,
to accept a very precise check valve, a larger plunger that allows more oil
reservoir volume, and a ball seat that fits much tighter, yet has an oil feed
groove to allow more upper rocker box oiling. The result was a significantly
improved lifter, with a much bigger internal oil reservoir that will keep the
lifter/pushrod from bleeding too much and bottoming out. The bigger
reservoir maintains a cushion of oil inside. The improved ball seat ensures
better top-end rocker oiling and better pushrod tip fit.... all of which makes
for a quieter lifter.




AMS and Hylift have continued to develop this lifter, and today, we offer
3 versions of the AMS-Hylift lifter for Harley Twin Cam applications:


AMS A2313S  for stock and performance street bikes. $29.95 each


AMS A2313R  for all out, hi-rev racing applications. $39.95


AMS A2313-002 this is a 0.002" oversized version of the AMS2313, for use
in cases with worn lifter bores. $39.95


We recommend using Andrews adjust pushrods, or stock non-adjustable
pushrods with them... however other brand adjustable pushrods will work
too. These lifters have a wide preload range, which makes for easy
installation if adjustable push rods are used.

There are many other things that can cause "lifter" noise - it can be coil
bind, rocker to spring cap interference, spring cap to stems / guide length
interference, poor oiling, high lift cam profile causing loft, overheating motor,
wrong oil viscosity for ambient temperatures, aerated oil, low oil pressure,
gear drive backlash, worn drive chains, etc. However if you're convinced
you've eliminate all of these things, and the lifters still rattle, then the next
step is to a set AMS-Hylift Lifters. With their larger oil reservoirs, they will
usually lessen or eliminate the noise.

For more info give us a call at 1-800-210-8675.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

S&S or the Wood directional lifters, are what we gravitate to.
Never any issues with either, from what we've seen.
Scott

[North Star]

I have a dumb question- when replacing cams only and not removing the heads, is there any extra work/dissasembly involved in replacing the lifters as well?

[Boatman]

I have a dumb question- when replacing cams only and not removing the heads, is there any extra work/dissasembly involved in replacing the lifters as well?

Take the 4 bolts out of each lifter base  holdown block and the lifters are easily removed.  The 2 inside bolts (next to the cylinder fins) can be a pain to get out-no room.  Hope this helps.

Since you are replacing the cams, the pushrods are already removed.

[captdave221]

I was wondering if lifter failures are related to inner cam bearing failure also? I have seen the front lifter fail (frt cyl exhaust) and the inner cam bearing was worn thru the outer race and into the case. Which happened 1st? The chicken or the egg?

[dlaws01]

Sometimes failures like this can be detected early before parts fail by performing an engine oil analysis.  Kits are available online and the lab will provide analysis of wear metals in the oil and can be compared to previous samples taken.  For example, high silicone numbers might be caused by induction air leaks or high chrome or lead could be from potential bearing failures, etc.  Kits cost about $20 and you get results within a week.  I use them on aircraft I maintain and on my bike.  Cheap preventive measures IMHO.

[hd-51]

Got the bike back from my guy, $1500 in parts, $600 in labor. Everything in cam chest is new, went with the same cams 570ss gear drive, Feuling cam chest kit. bike runs grea,t nice and smooth.
Ed Dahir at Dyno Diffenence checked my tune and did a great job at getting the best out of my bike, he takes the time to do the little things right, Thanks Ed. I will have to learn how to pull the push rods out and check those lifters myself. Thanks for the imput, this site is great.
Chris