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[Randy C]

I had a TTS Mastertune installed on my 09serg by a dealer that didn't do a good job on the Map.I was in Daytona last year and Chris from Cycle Solutions talked me into a Power Commander 5 which he installed.It worked great ,it ran cooler and the throttle response and the added torque and horses worked great.I was in Erie Pa over the weekend for a short vacation get a way and the bike started running like it did before the Power commander was insstalled but worse.I walked into a shop called Horsepower INC.,they were great Mary Jo and Eric moved some appointments around and got me in.After doing some runs on the dyno and checking the map they determined the Power commander had failed.I called my son in Altoona and had him send my TTS Master tune over night to the shop,Eric put it back on the dyno ,removed the Power Commander and tuned the bike with the Mastertune and it runs great and even has has more torque and hp than it did with the commander.BUT one problem was found and not sure what could be causing it.If you run the bike on the dyno and do back to back runs it loses 5 to 10 hp every run.Can anyone give me any ideas where to start.Has anyone ever heard of this problem?

[grc]

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that the engine and dyno room are getting way too hot.  Hot engine, hot intake air, lower power.  If they aren't pumping cool air into the dyno room and running some serious fans to cool the engine, what you described might make sense.  What are the conditions (air temp, humidity, atmospheric pressure, etc.) during the runs?  They should be listed on the dyno chart.


Jerry

[Doc 1]

Jerry is correct....I trained that shop several years ago and their dyno room is very small and the cooling fans are substandard to what we use today in Dyno rooms. Every run they make the air in the dyno room gets more polluted and no mater how good of a tuner you are you can't burn spent air....lol.
Doc

[Randy C]

Doc I appreciate the reply.Eric told me that he called another tuner that he trained with and that he felt that a compression test and leak down test should be done because neither one of them ever ran across this problem before.The bike seems to run good and the chart showed 87 hp and 104 torque with a stock 110 and Vance and Hines x pipe.DO you think running these tests are a good idea.

[Doc 1]

Doc I appreciate the reply.Eric told me that he called another tuner that he trained with and that he felt that a compression test and leak down test should be done because neither one of them ever ran across this problem before.The bike seems to run good and the chart showed 87 hp and 104 torque with a stock 110 and Vance and Hines x pipe.DO you think running these tests are a good idea.

Pipes and a good tune on a 110'' should yeild about 90/95 hp and 111/118 tq on an average. Usually I see 85/104 before the tune up so it won't hurt to do the test.

[Randy C]

Compression and leak down test came back within specs,I talked to the tuner and he said he never had this problem with any other bikes he'd done.I sent the power commander back to the factory and after checking out the unit I was told that when it was installed by Cycle Solutions some of the programs in it were opened up but not shut off when tune was done,also they updated in and turned everything off that should be.I am not reiinstalling it ,the bike runs good with the TTS tune done by Horsepower plus in Erie Pa After about 3000.00 in tunes and 3 different different tuners ,First the tts and then the commander and then back to the tts,I quit.I won't be at the dragstrip in the near future with my bagger anyway lol
 

[Cat Eye]

Compression and leak down test came back within specs,I talked to the tuner and he said he never had this problem with any other bikes he'd done.I sent the power commander back to the factory and after checking out the unit I was told that when it was installed by Cycle Solutions some of the programs in it were opened up but not shut off when tune was done,also they updated in and turned everything off that should be.I am not reiinstalling it ,the bike runs good with the TTS tune done by Horsepower plus in Erie Pa After about 3000.00 in tunes and 3 different different tuners ,First the tts and then the commander and then back to the tts,I quit.I won't be at the dragstrip in the near future with my bagger anyway lol
 

I was wonder how the Power Commander works.....does it take the map in the ECU and tweak its output to give the desired performace.  Meaning in the above application....if the PC was reinstalled after the base map in ECU was changed by the TTS dyno tune....then the performance now with the PC reinstalled would be different from it original tune before the TTS change to ECU map?    Is the net performance when using a CP the combination for both the ECU map and the PC map.....now I am confused

[Twolanerider]

I was wonder how the Power Commander works.....does it take the map in the ECU and tweak its output to give the desired performace.  Meaning in the above application....if the PC was reinstalled after the base map in ECU was changed by the TTS dyno tune....then the performance now with the PC reinstalled would be different from it original tune before the TTS change to ECU map?    Is the net performance when using a CP the combination for both the ECU map and the PC map.....now I am confused

Power Commander doesn't alter the map within the ECM.  Their is a separate "map" within the Power Commander that is just a +/- overlay to the existing map in the ECM.

This would mean that if a Power Commander tune was done and the original map within the ECM was later changed the tuning effort done with the Power Commander would no longer be accurate.  A Power Commander tune is only accurate in conjunction with the base map in the ECM that was there when the Power Commander tune was done.

[Cat Eye]

Power Commander doesn't alter the map within the ECM.  Their is a separate "map" within the Power Commander that is just a +/- overlay to the existing map in the ECM.

This would mean that if a Power Commander tune was done and the original map within the ECM was later changed the tuning effort done with the Power Commander would no longer be accurate.  A Power Commander tune is only accurate in conjunction with the base map in the ECM that was there when the Power Commander tune was done.

Thanks, I understand it now.....
One more question.....or how does the Power Commander V along with the Auto-Tune add on operate.
Does the Auto-Tune module do another +/- overlay to the PC map or does it overwrite it...and if yes...does it do it continuously or only when under certain conditions?

[Twolanerider]

Thanks, I understand it now.....
One more question.....or how does the Power Commander V along with the Auto-Tune add on operate.
Does the Auto-Tune module do another +/- overlay to the PC map or does it overwrite it...and if yes...does it do it continuously or only when under certain conditions?

It is altering the +/- overlay map within the Power Commander.